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Thread: background check and new firearm purchase

  1. #1
    Regular Member oliverclotheshoff's Avatar
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    background check and new firearm purchase

    since there is going to be a background check to get a permit is that going to be sufficient to opt out of a background check when buying a new firearm
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    Regular Member bigdaddy1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oliverclotheshoff View Post
    since there is going to be a background check to get a permit is that going to be sufficient to opt out of a background check when buying a new firearm

    Good question. Logically it should but since when does government and logic combine.
    What part of "shall not be infringed" don't you understand?

  3. #3
    Regular Member goforlow's Avatar
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    Unfortunately, no, not now. We are working to get this added in the future.
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    Regular Member littlewolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oliverclotheshoff View Post
    since there is going to be a background check to get a permit is that going to be sufficient to opt out of a background check when buying a new firearm
    After browsing thru Jus Ch. 10 there is no provision to forgo the back round check for CCW holders in Jus 10.2 (2)
    only dealer to dealer,wholesaler and law enforcement or armed services agency's.
    If we only had to do a NICS check for handguns in WI a permit would suffice.
    I am a FFL dealer and will have to pay for a back round check ????? but that's the way it goes. Somewhere along the line I think these issues will get straightened out and more bugs will be found after the law takes affect.
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    I thought this was going to be one of the benefits of getting the permit, to get the cash and carry option for a rifle or shotgun purchase at a store, along with the 3-day wait (cooling off period) for a handgun purchase.

    Perhaps I misunderstood, or confused this with what some other State's permits allow and cover.

    (I'm now debating if I'll get a permit or not.)

  6. #6
    Campaign Veteran rcawdor57's Avatar
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    Lightbulb Permit Or Not?

    The best reason in my opinion to get the "permit" is to keep you from being prosecuted under the unconstitutional "Gun Free School Zone" law of 1000 feet from the school grounds.

    So I will get the permit for that if for no other reason. We still have to fight to invalidate that unconstitutional law!
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    Regular Member Outdoorsman1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rcawdor57 View Post
    The best reason in my opinion to get the "permit" is to keep you from being prosecuted under the unconstitutional "Gun Free School Zone" law of 1000 feet from the school grounds.

    So I will get the permit for that if for no other reason. We still have to fight to invalidate that unconstitutional law!

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    Regular Member davegran's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by treebound View Post
    I thought this was going to be one of the benefits of getting the permit, to get the cash and carry option for a rifle or shotgun purchase at a store, along with the 3-day wait (cooling off period) for a handgun purchase.

    Perhaps I misunderstood, or confused this with what some other State's permits allow and cover.

    (I'm now debating if I'll get a permit or not.)
    Unless you left out an important word, and if I'm understanding what you wrote, we already had "cash and carry" for long guns before this bill was even a glimmer in our eyes....
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  9. #9
    Campaign Veteran rcawdor57's Avatar
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    Exclamation 48 Hour Wait For Handguns...

    Quote Originally Posted by treebound View Post
    I thought this was going to be one of the benefits of getting the permit, to get the cash and carry option for a rifle or shotgun purchase at a store, along with the 3-day wait (cooling off period) for a handgun purchase.

    Perhaps I misunderstood, or confused this with what some other State's permits allow and cover.

    (I'm now debating if I'll get a permit or not.)
    I too was hoping we would get the 48 HR waiting period removed if we had a Wisconsin "permit". Hopefully we can add that in the future as we continue to fight for our rights. Funny how the "leaders" in our government wanted to use the Florida CC law as a model for our CC law yet they LEFT OUT the part where Florida concealed carry license holders do NOT have to wait for handgun purchases. Walk in, buy a handgun, show license, walk out with new handgun.
    “The Constitution shall never be construed... to prevent the People of the United States who are peaceable citizens from keeping their own arms.” -- Samuel Adams

    “Today, we need a nation of Minutemen. Citizens who are not only prepared to take arms, but citizens who regard the preservation of freedom as the basic purpose of their daily life and who are willing to consciously work and sacrifice for that freedom.”

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    Is This Correct?

    Quote Originally Posted by rcawdor57 View Post
    I too was hoping we would get the 48 HR waiting period removed if we had a Wisconsin "permit". Hopefully we can add that in the future as we continue to fight for our rights. Funny how the "leaders" in our government wanted to use the Florida CC law as a model for our CC law yet they LEFT OUT the part where Florida concealed carry license holders do NOT have to wait for handgun purchases. Walk in, buy a handgun, show license, walk out with new handgun.
    Please confirm (anybody can jump in) -

    1. Subject to ATF approval, the new WI license could serve a NICS alternative whether for long gun or handgun.
    2. In WI, the 48 hour waiting period and additional DoJ check is what is blocking an immediate handgun buy and take.
    3. In WI, FBI does NICS for long guns and DoJ does NICS+ for handguns.
    4. If the 48 hour rule was waived (at least for licensees) both long guns and handguns would be buy and take (absent a NICS delay).

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    Regular Member Interceptor_Knight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by apjonas View Post
    Please confirm (anybody can jump in) -

    2. In WI, the 48 hour waiting period and additional DoJ check is what is blocking an immediate handgun buy and take.
    3. In WI, FBI does NICS for long guns and DoJ does NICS+ for handguns.
    4. If the 48 hour rule was waived (at least for licensees) both long guns and handguns would be buy and take (absent a NICS delay).
    Correct. There is no Federal waiting period requirement. A "free" NICS check is all which is required for a handgun or long gun. WI should simply eliminate the handgun hotline and waiting period altogether. It is an absolute waste of time and money for everyone involved.

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    There is no NICS background check on handgun purchases in Wisconsin. Wisconsin DOJ is the POC for handgun purchases and it is not an "additional" background step. Only shotgun and rifle sales go through a NICS check. A 4473 form needs to be filled out and an A&D entry made for handgun purchases but that is largely for FFL record keeping purposes. Wisconsin form DJ-LE-FH2 is used for handgun purchases and background check purposes. Getting rid of the 48 hour wait period will be tough. Too many legislators, including republicans, are convinced the 48 hour "cooling off" period is vital to preventing crimes of passion. Wen this issue comes to the table we really need to dig in and fight.

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    Are You Sure?

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Nemo View Post
    There is no NICS background check on handgun purchases in Wisconsin. Wisconsin DOJ is the POC for handgun purchases and it is not an "additional" background step. Only shotgun and rifle sales go through a NICS check. A 4473 form needs to be filled out and an A&D entry made for handgun purchases but that is largely for FFL record keeping purposes. Wisconsin form DJ-LE-FH2 is used for handgun purchases and background check purposes. Getting rid of the 48 hour wait period will be tough. Too many legislators, including republicans, are convinced the 48 hour "cooling off" period is vital to preventing crimes of passion. Wen this issue comes to the table we really need to dig in and fight.
    Please look on page 2 of LRB–00–WB–11. It's dated and the law may have changed or they may be wrong but it indicates the process is as I described it.

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    This is the law regarding handgun purchases in Wisconsin as of today date.

    175.35
    175.35 Waiting period for purchase of handguns.

    175.35(1)
    (1) In this section:


    175.35(1)(ag)
    (ag) "Criminal history record" includes information reported to the department under s. 938.396 (2g) (n) that indicates a person was adjudicated delinquent for an act that if committed by an adult in this state would be a felony.


    175.35(1)(ar)
    (ar) "Firearms dealer" means any person engaged in the business of importing, manufacturing or dealing in firearms and having a license as an importer, manufacturer or dealer issued by the U.S. department of the treasury.


    175.35(1)(at)
    (at) "Firearms restrictions record search" means a search of department of justice records to determine whether a person seeking to purchase a handgun is prohibited from possessing a firearm under s. 941.29. "Firearms restriction record search" includes a criminal history record search, a search to determine whether a person is prohibited from possessing a firearm under s. 51.20 (13) (cv) 1., 2007 stats., a search in the national instant criminal background check system to determine whether a person has been ordered not to possess a firearm under s. 51.20 (13) (cv) 1., 51.45 (13) (i) 1., 54.10 (3) (f) 1., or 55.12 (10) (a), a search to determine whether the person is subject to an injunction under s. 813.12 or 813.122, or a tribal injunction, as defined in s. 813.12 (1) (e), issued by a court established by any federally recognized Wisconsin Indian tribe or band, except the Menominee Indian tribe of Wisconsin, that includes notice to the respondent that he or she is subject to the requirements and penalties under s. 941.29 and that has been filed with the circuit court under s. 806.247 (3), and a search to determine whether the person is prohibited from possessing a firearm under s. 813.125 (4m).


    175.35(1)(b)
    (b) "Handgun" means any weapon designed or redesigned, or made or remade, and intended to be fired while held in one hand and to use the energy of an explosive to expel a projectile through a smooth or rifled bore.


    175.35(1)(c)
    (c) "Working day" means each day except Saturday, Sunday, or a legal holiday under s. 995.20.


    175.35(2)
    (2) When a firearms dealer sells a handgun, he or she may not transfer possession of that handgun to any other person until all of the following have occurred:


    175.35(2)(a)
    (a) The transferee has provided identification as required by rule under sub. (2g) (a).


    175.35(2)(b)
    (b) The transferee has completed the notification form described in sub. (2g) (b).


    175.35(2)(c)
    (c) The firearms dealer has conveyed the information from the completed notification form to the department of justice as required by rule under sub. (2g) (b) and requested a firearms restrictions record search.


    175.35(2)(d)
    (d) Forty-eight hours, subject to extension under sub. (2g) (c) 4. c., have elapsed from the time that the firearms dealer has received a confirmation number regarding the firearms restrictions record search under sub. (2g) (c) from the department of justice and the firearms dealer has not been notified that the transfer would be in violation of s. 941.29.


    175.35(2e)
    (2e) When a transferee completes the notification form described in sub. (2g) (b), the transferee shall provide truthful information.


    175.35(2f)
    (2f) When a firearms dealer requests that the department of justice provide a firearms restrictions record search under sub. (2g), he or she shall provide truthful information about his or her status as a firearms dealer and shall provide an accurate firearms dealer identification number obtained under sub. (2h). A person may request that the department provide a firearms restrictions record search under sub. (2g) only if he or she is a firearms dealer.


    175.35(2g)
    (2g)

    175.35(2g)(a)
    (a) The department of justice shall promulgate rules prescribing procedures for a transferee to provide and a firearms dealer to inspect identification containing a photograph of the transferee.


    175.35(2g)(b)
    (b) The department of justice shall promulgate rules prescribing a notification form for use under sub. (2) requiring the transferee to provide his or her name, date of birth, gender, race and social security number and other identification necessary to permit an accurate firearms restrictions record search under par. (c) 3. and the required notification under par. (c) 4. The department of justice shall make the forms available at locations throughout the state.


    175.35(2g)(c)
    (c) The department of justice shall promulgate rules for firearms restrictions record searches regarding transferees under sub. (2), including procedures for all of the following:


    175.35(2g)(c)1.
    1. A firearms dealer to convey the information from a completed notification form to the department using a toll-free telephone number provided by the department.


    175.35(2g)(c)2.
    2. The department to provide the firearms dealer with a confirmation number confirming the receipt of the information under subd. 1.


    175.35(2g)(c)3.
    3. The department to conduct the firearms restrictions record search regarding the transferee. The rules shall include, but not be limited to, a requirement that the department use the transaction information for management of enforcement system and the national crime information center system.


    175.35(2g)(c)4.
    4. The department to notify the dealer, either during the initial telephone call or as soon thereafter as practicable, of the results of the firearms restrictions record search as follows:


    175.35(2g)(c)4.a.
    a. If the search indicates that the transferee is prohibited from possessing a firearm under s. 941.29, the department shall provide the firearms dealer with a unique nonapproval number. The department may not disclose to the firearms dealer the reason the transferee is prohibited from possessing a firearm under s. 941.29.


    175.35(2g)(c)4.b.
    b. If the search indicates that the transferee is not prohibited from possessing a firearm under s. 941.29, the department shall provide the firearms dealer with a unique approval number.


    175.35(2g)(c)4.c.
    c. If the search indicates a felony charge without a recorded disposition, the deadline under sub. (2) (d) is extended to the end of the 3rd complete working day commencing after the day on which the finding is made. The department shall notify the firearms dealer of the extension as soon as practicable. During the extended period, the department shall make every reasonable effort to determine the disposition of the charge and notify the firearms dealer of the results as soon as practicable.


    175.35(2g)(d)
    (d)

    175.35(2g)(d)1.
    1. The department of justice shall promulgate rules to convey information in a timely manner to the national instant criminal background check system regarding individuals ordered not to possess a firearm under s. 51.20 (13) (cv) 1., 51.45 (13) (i) 1., 54.10 (3) (f) 1., or 55.12 (10) (a).


    175.35(2g)(d)2.
    2. The department of justice shall promulgate rules to convey information in a timely manner to the national instant criminal background check system regarding the cancellation under s. 51.20 (13) (cv) 1m. c., 51.45 (13) (i) 2. c., 54.10 (3) (f) 2. c., or 55.12 (10) (b) 3. of an order not to possess a firearm.


    175.35(2h)
    (2h) Upon the request of any firearms dealer, the department of justice shall provide that firearms dealer with a unique firearms dealer identification number for use under this section.


    175.35(2i)
    (2i) The department shall charge a firearms dealer a $13 fee for each firearms restrictions record search that the firearms dealer requests under sub. (2) (c). The firearms dealer may collect the fee from the transferee. The department may refuse to conduct firearms restrictions record searches for any firearms dealer who fails to pay any fee under this subsection within 30 days after billing by the department.


    175.35(2j)
    (2j) A firearms dealer shall maintain the original record of all completed notification forms and a record of all confirmation numbers and corresponding approval or nonapproval numbers that he or she receives regarding firearms restrictions record searches under sub. (2g). The firearms dealer shall mail the duplicate copy of each completed notification form to the department of justice.


    175.35(2k)
    (2k)

    175.35(2k)(ag)
    (ag) In this subsection:


    175.35(2k)(ag)1.
    1. "Law enforcement agency of a physically adjacent state" has the meaning given in s. 175.46 (1) (b).


    175.35(2k)(ag)2.
    2. "Wisconsin law enforcement agency" means a governmental unit of one or more persons employed by this state or a political subdivision of this state for the purpose of preventing and detecting crime and enforcing state laws or local ordinances, employees of which unit are authorized to make arrests for crimes while acting within the scope of their authority.


    175.35(2k)(ar)
    (ar) Except as provided in pars. (b) to (j) and as necessary to administer this section, the department of justice shall do all of the following:


    175.35(2k)(ar)1.
    1. Deny access to any record kept under this section.


    175.35(2k)(ar)2.
    2. Check each duplicate notification form received under sub. (2j) against the information recorded by the department regarding the corresponding request for a firearms restrictions record search under sub. (2g). If the department previously provided a unique approval number regarding the request and nothing in the duplicate completed notification form indicates that the transferee is prohibited from possessing a firearm under s. 941.29, the department shall destroy all records regarding that firearms restrictions record search within 30 days after receiving the duplicate form.


    175.35(2k)(b)
    (b) Notwithstanding par. (ar), the department of justice may maintain all of the following:


    175.35(2k)(b)1.
    1. Records necessary to comply with federal law.


    175.35(2k)(b)2.
    2.

    175.35(2k)(b)2.a.
    a. Except as provided in subd. 2. b., a log of dates of requests for firearms restrictions record searches under sub. (2g) together with confirmation numbers, unique approval and nonapproval numbers and firearms dealer identification numbers corresponding to those dates.


    175.35(2k)(b)2.b.
    b. Within 3 years after the department issues a unique approval number, the department shall destroy all corresponding information contained in the log under subd. 2. a.


    175.35(2k)(b)3.
    3. Records necessary to administer this section.


    175.35(2k)(c)
    (c) Notwithstanding par. (ar), the department of justice shall provide access to any record under this section under all of the following circumstances:


    175.35(2k)(c)1.
    1. The department of justice receives a record request that is submitted in writing by a Wisconsin law enforcement agency.


    175.35(2k)(c)2.
    2. The request submitted under subd. 1. appears on the Wisconsin law enforcement agency's letterhead and contains all of the following:


    175.35(2k)(c)2.a.
    a. A statement that the Wisconsin law enforcement agency is conducting an investigation of a crime in which a handgun was used or was attempted to be used or was unlawfully possessed.


    175.35(2k)(c)2.b.
    b. A statement by a division commander or higher authority within the Wisconsin law enforcement agency that he or she has a reasonable suspicion that the person who is the subject of the information request has obtained or is attempting to obtain a handgun.


    175.35(2k)(c)2.c.
    c. The signature of a division commander or higher authority within the Wisconsin law enforcement agency.


    175.35(2k)(d)
    (d) Whenever a Wisconsin law enforcement agency makes a request for information under par. (c), the agency shall report to the subject of the information request the fact that a request has been made and the name of the Wisconsin law enforcement agency that made the request. The agency shall make the report whenever the earliest of the following occurs:


    175.35(2k)(d)1.
    1. The person who is the subject of the information request under par. (c) 2. b. is no longer material to the investigation conducted under par. (c) 2. a.


    175.35(2k)(d)2.
    2. The Wisconsin law enforcement agency has completed its investigation under par. (c) 2. a.


    175.35(2k)(d)3.
    3. One year after the date that the Wisconsin law enforcement agency made the request under par. (c).


    175.35(2k)(e)
    (e) A Wisconsin law enforcement agency may disclose information that is provided by the department of justice under par. (c) to another law enforcement agency. If there is a request for information from a requester other than a law enforcement agency, the Wisconsin law enforcement agency shall not disclose information to the requester that is provided by the department of justice under par. (c). If there is a request by a requester other than a law enforcement agency to copy or inspect any record of the Wisconsin law enforcement agency that contains that information, the agency, acting under s. 19.36 (6), shall delete any portion of the record that relates to that information before release.


    175.35(2k)(f)
    (f) A Wisconsin law enforcement agency that is provided access to a record under par. (c) shall destroy all corresponding information contained in the record when the earliest of the following occurs:


    175.35(2k)(f)1.
    1. The person who is the subject of the information request under par. (c) 2. b. is no longer material to the investigation conducted under par. (c) 2. a.


    175.35(2k)(f)2.
    2. The Wisconsin law enforcement agency has completed its investigation under par. (c) 2. a.


    175.35(2k)(f)3.
    3. One year after the date the Wisconsin law enforcement agency made the request under par. (c).


    175.35(2k)(g)
    (g) If a search conducted under sub. (2g) indicates that the transferee is prohibited from possessing a firearm under s. 941.29, the attorney general or his or her designee may disclose to a law enforcement agency that the transferee has attempted to obtain a handgun.


    175.35(2k)(h)
    (h) If a search conducted under sub. (2g) indicates a felony charge without a recorded disposition and the attorney general or his or her designee has reasonable grounds to believe the transferee may pose a danger to himself, herself or another, the attorney general or his or her designee may disclose to a law enforcement agency that the transferee has obtained or has attempted to obtain a handgun.


    175.35(2k)(i)
    (i) The department of justice may not charge a fee for any services that the department provides under pars. (c) to (j).


    175.35(2k)(j)
    (j) If a law enforcement agency of a physically adjacent state makes a request under par. (c), the department shall comply with the request under all of the following circumstances:


    175.35(2k)(j)1.
    1. The law enforcement agency of the physically adjacent state agrees to comply with all the requirements under this subsection.


    175.35(2k)(j)2.
    2. The physically adjacent state allows Wisconsin law enforcement agencies similar or greater access to similar information from that physically adjacent state.


    175.35(2L)
    (2L) The department of justice shall promulgate rules providing for the review of nonapprovals under sub. (2g) (c) 4. a. Any person who is denied the right to purchase a handgun because the firearms dealer received a nonapproval number under sub. (2g) (c) 4. a. may request a firearms restrictions record search review under those rules. If the person disagrees with the results of that review, the person may file an appeal under rules promulgated by the department.


    175.35(2t)
    (2t) This section does not apply to any of the following:


    175.35(2t)(a)
    (a) Transfers of any handgun classified as an antique by regulations of the U.S. department of the treasury.


    175.35(2t)(b)
    (b) Transfers of any handgun between firearms dealers or between wholesalers and dealers.


    175.35(2t)(c)
    (c) Transfers of any handgun to law enforcement or armed services agencies.


    175.35(3)
    (3) Any person who intentionally violates sub. (2), (2e), (2f) or (2j) shall be fined not less than $500 nor more than $10,000 and may be imprisoned for not more than 9 months.

  15. #15
    Regular Member DangerClose's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rcawdor57 View Post
    The best reason in my opinion to get the "permit" is to keep you from being prosecuted under the unconstitutional "Gun Free School Zone" law of 1000 feet from the school grounds.

    So I will get the permit for that if for no other reason. We still have to fight to invalidate that unconstitutional law!
    Hell, I might get one just in case if I have some kind of knife in my pocket it's not considered "an illegal, concealed weapon" in the eyes of a law enforcement person who should be doing something constructive instead.

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    Correction

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Nemo View Post
    This is the law regarding handgun purchases in Wisconsin as of today date.
    You set forth state law only. Did you read the document I referenced? It would have taken a lot less time than reciting the relevant Wisconsin Statutes.
    Last edited by apjonas; 06-24-2011 at 09:29 PM.

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