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Thread: ALOC Forum Update

  1. #1
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    Cool ALOC Forum Update

    Alabama Open Carry, Alabama's largest supporter of OC and 2nd Amendment rights has recently made some new and exciting changes.

    We have upgraded our forum with a better more robust set of features and a great new look.

    Some of our new features:
    In addition to our popular Shoutbox, a new instant chat feature is available, it is very similar to the Facebook style chat.

    A new toolbar with instant access to useful widgets and tools.

    A new "like" system is in place where posts can be "Liked" similar to Facebook.

    We have sections covering OC, concealed carry, Constitution carry, campus carry, guns & equipment, safety & training and many more!

    Stop in and check us out if you haven't been by for a while or if your new to OC in Alabama. We have an awesome member base who love to help and we pride ourselves on being a family friendly site.

    We are grassroots and decisions on the site are made by listening to the majority voice of our members! Many of the changes above were made at the requests of our members.

    Hope our site and forum can be use as another valuable tool in your fight to protect our rights to carry how we choose!

    http://www.alaoc.org/forum
    http://www.alabamaopencarry.com

  2. #2
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    I would have said nothing in this thread had the contention that the site is "grassroots" not been made. My impression of the site is that it is decidedly NOT. The owner has said the the site is "his" and that his decision are absolute and final.

    Alabama needs an organization founded and run by its members and any site that purports to represent the movement needs to subordinate itself to the movement. No one person should be "in charge" or be able to claim that the site is "his."

    Thanks to Jason and all he has done. This site was a fine site, and I am sure it is even better now. I just won't participate in any OC movement in Alabama until and unless it is organized from the bottom up (the true meaning of "grassroots"), not from the top down, where one person can, in writing, claim ownership and then use that ownership to squelch dissent.

    At the moment, "grassroots" does not describe ALOC.

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    People Can Decide For Themselves

    Certainly everyone is entitled to their opinion including you eye.

    However, I would encourage everyone to visit and make their own conclusions about ALOC and not rely on bitter, retaliatory comments from someone who was voted out by our members, Regional Coordinators and myself because of numerous complaints inside an out of ALOC.

    I am not here to start a flame war with you. I will not allow you to drag me into something that is detrimental to yet another forum as you did quite often on ours... So as you are so fond of saying.....moving on.
    Last edited by Dianosis; 06-24-2011 at 05:58 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dianosis View Post
    ...I would encourage everyone to visit and make their own conclusions about ALOC...
    Oh, by all means, folks, check it out and decide for yourselves. However, don't think you are getting the whole truth in this thread. Several very regular members have PMed me to ask why I no longer post there, so, no, this was NOT a "membership" decision. This was the result of highly critical posts I made about the way the site was administered, and an administrator deciding that he didn't like the criticism and was going to shut it up using his authority.

    That's his right, as it is "his" site. Something he is all too willing to point out--which is why the site does not represent a grassroots movement. However, I have very little respect for folks who use their power to "win" arguments when they cannot make their case with honest, well-thought-out rhetoric.

    But, by all means, judge for yourselves. Most of you will find the site to your liking. I just prefer true grassroots movements.

    Again, I'd love to participate in a true grassroots movement in Alabama. That site ain't it. It would be nice if we could from a 501c(4) and if the owner of the site would be willing to subordinate ALOC to that member-driven movement. I just don't think he will.
    Last edited by eye95; 06-24-2011 at 11:56 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dianosis View Post
    ...from someone who was voted out by our members, Regional Coordinators and myself because of numerous complaints inside an out of ALOC.
    That is a complete misstatement of what happened at best and some might consider it a lie. I can't speak to your appointed coordinators opinions or actions, but I can certainly say that the general membership of the forum did not vote upon Eye95 being banned from the website nor know a vote was happening unless the vote happened some time after eye was banned.

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    Guys, get a life, there is something far more important at hand than any individual, Alabama is a state where although it is legal to OC, the laws are poorly worded, leaving lots of wiggle room for LEO/LEA to say that it is not and to arrest people for doing so. I attended a trial this week of such an arrest and the verdict was farcical. A young man, his wife and son are suffering a financial and emotional burden that is significant in the least. God only knows at this time what the cost will be to them, and I come here to find people self absorbed in a conflict that few here even know anything about. Certainly no newcomer would.

    So, with all the righteous indignation I can muster I ask, whatever has gone between you guys, will you please leave it offline? OC in Alabama, nor anywhere else for that matter, is interested nor cares about who'se and what is what. There are more important fish to fry, get over it.

    eye,(I don't know your name but I'd certainly call you by it) respectfully, for all your abrasiveness, the world doesn't revolve around you. Yes, even people here have said that about you, I've thought it more than once. Get over yourself and consider that you might have a problem. I learned long ago that getting along is far more pleasant and enjoyable than being right. You have been one of the voices of clarity that I listened to over the last year. I don't miss the condesention that can go with it. You are highly intelligent, and one who can see clearly in the fogs of obsfucation Alabama laws and case law history are filled with. Our fight is long yet.

    It's not my place to offer you a seat back, but your wisdom, knowledge and clarity are sorely missed.

    Jason, I've no idea why you posted this here, I don't care. I can easily see two motives; one honorable, one not so much so. You are the one who looks in your mirror. Whatever the case, it is time to leave sleeping dogs lie. Fighting amoungst ourselves as the wolves circle serves no purpose other than to provide an earlier meal... for them.

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    Regular Member Brimstone Baritone's Avatar
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    Very well put.

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    Unfortunately, the closest thing we have to an organization for the movement right now is controlled by an "any individual" who claims that organization (the site) as "his" and has stated that he will "control" it.

    That must change.

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    Sorry OCDO

    Quote Originally Posted by Daylen View Post
    That is a complete misstatement of what happened at best and some might consider it a lie. I can't speak to your appointed coordinators opinions or actions, but I can certainly say that the general membership of the forum did not vote upon Eye95 being banned from the website nor know a vote was happening unless the vote happened some time after eye was banned.
    Just to clarify, there was a vote from the Regional Coordinators that I contacted, the "vote", "request", or "voice" whatever you want to call it, of alot of members was heard and heeded in the form of complaints. Bottom line is, everyone that I either spoke with, or received an email or pm from all agreed that he was causing more harm than good.

    Three things were taken into consideration before a decision was made:
    1. Feedback and complaints received from members & non-members.
    2. Feedback and input and a vote from several of our Regional Coordinators.
    3. Was his actions an overall benefit or harm to the site and the movement.

    Funny thing is, I haven't had one request to allow him back and the forum is much more peaceful now. It looks like members on our site aren't the only one with this view as evidenced in this thread: http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/sh...-John-and-Mike!

    As I indicated on a thread at ALOC, it was my hopes that when this all played out that maybe some people would listen to all those voices an think, wait a sec, maybe I'm the problem. Clearly, sadly, from this post and the link above, it's clear some can't take a hint.

    JohnH -
    If you start at the very first post which was only an announcement of new features on our forum, you will see it had absolutely nothing to do with eye95. Only after he started spreading poison and cancer once again, did I feel the need to respond and defend our site. I am human too, and am very proud of our site and what we have accomplished on our site, so yes I defended it.

    I do however apologize to this site, and owners, that it has spilled over onto their forums as well.

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    Your pride in the site is well-founded. It is your "ownership" of the movement to which I objected (and still do), that blunt statement of which being what prompted your defensive action--whether you choose to admit it or not.

    Oh, and nice job of not starting a "flame war." Don't pretend to own the high ground. Your hands are unclean in this matter.

    Back to the point that started this all: Will you subordinate your site to the movement, or will you continue to try to "control" [your word] it, seeing it as "yours"?

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    The problem so poorly discussed here is larger than Eye95 knows and worse than Dianosis admits.

    That's okay, though. We will sort it out in due course.

  12. #12
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    Eye95

    why am I not surprised that you have been banned from another OC website?

    You have made numerous misleading posts on OCDO, and now I see you are not welcome in a local message board.

    Sounds like you are just pissed that youd did not buy the domain name or whatever. How's that "Party with Eye95" site going for you? Anyone but family members following?

    You seem to have a sharp mind. Why not use it for good instead of evil?

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    Quote Originally Posted by riverrat10k View Post
    why am I not surprised that you have been banned from another OC website?

    You have made numerous misleading posts on OCDO, and now I see you are not welcome in a local message board.

    Sounds like you are just pissed that youd did not buy the domain name or whatever. How's that "Party with Eye95" site going for you? Anyone but family members following?

    You seem to have a sharp mind. Why not use it for good instead of evil?
    Nice attack. Do you have anything useful to contribute to this thread?
    It takes a village to raise an idiot.

  14. #14
    Regular Member riverrat10k's Avatar
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    Nope, you are right, and I apologize to the forum members and administrators.

    The member in question has gotten under my skin, and that is my fault, not his.

    Back to Virginia!

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    Regular Member Brimstone Baritone's Avatar
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    I'm glad that we have so few barriers to OC in Alabama that we can take time to be drawn in to this manufactured drama.

    Oh... Wait...

    Could we please focus on the real issues like, oh I don't know, asking our elected officials to follow the law, electing new officials who will, and defending OCers who are wrongfully held hostage by a corrupt system? Thanks.

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    This "manufactured drama" is an analog of the real-world struggle we are enduring.

    In Alabama, we are fighting for just laws, the protection of our rights, honorable leadership, and, at the root of it all, the concept that governance derives from the consent of the governed, that oppression, no matter how minor, no matter how benevolent, is still unacceptable.

    The reality is that ALOC is the open carry movement. ALOC is "controlled" by one man. No matter how benevolent he may believe himself to be, his absolute "control" of the movement is unacceptable. This situation must change.

    There are two ways to bring about the change. Preferably, the "owner" of the site that is the de facto movement voluntarily reshapes his model, empowering the grassroots membership. Alternatively, another organization springs up for those of us respect the individual and recognize that the individual is the ultimate source of moral authority.

    We need to stress that the preferable option is an evolution within the existing structure. Unfortunately, this is highly unlikely.

  17. #17
    Regular Member riverrat10k's Avatar
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    Naw, just start your own group, eye.

    call it COAL---Carry Open Alabama, or OCAL, or OCA.

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    Folks not from AL have no business in this discussion--unless all they are trying to do is stir the pot for their own enjoyment, which is not real business.

    Solutions are being worked out. Stop trying to grow the problem.

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    Quote Originally Posted by eye95 View Post
    Folks not from AL have no business in this discussion--unless all they are trying to do is stir the pot for their own enjoyment, which is not real business.

    Solutions are being worked out. Stop trying to grow the problem.
    If it affects only the organization, leadership and processes within the Alabama Open Carry community, then perhaps it should be debated on the Alabama website, not in the Alabama forum of a board that is concerned with open carry issues, not internecine warfare.

    Why don't you discuss it in that more proper forum, the ALOC website? Oh ... wait ... You were banned from that website, weren't you?

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    Quote Originally Posted by JamesCanby View Post
    If it affects only the organization, leadership and processes within the Alabama Open Carry community, then perhaps it should be debated on the Alabama website, not in the Alabama forum of a board that is concerned with open carry issues, not internecine warfare.

    Why don't you discuss it in that more proper forum, the ALOC website? Oh ... wait ... You were banned from that website, weren't you?
    The last 2 threads I started under the Alabama section were for information and to bring awareness to an updated tool. My goal was to further the oc movement in Alabama, nothing more. If you look at the original posts in both those threads they will reflect that. I in no way shape or form instigated the comments that followed.

    Reading through the posts it's abundantly clear who and where the problems started and in my opinion got off topic. I also think that it's abundantly clear to everyone that the negative comments posted after the original posts were done so out of retaliation and to derail the thread.

    I find it hard to believe the sincerity of someone thats claims they are fighting to make the movement better, but then turn around and attack helpful informational posts, for no other reason than to sooth a bruised ego.

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    Mr. Canby,
    Evidently you are unaware that dissenting discussions on ALOC have proven very problematic of late. Posts get deleted without discussion, the membership gets locked out of whole threads that become available only to the appointed hierarchy, etc. That's why this work (and it is work) is being done here. Please be patient with us. We will sort this out in due course.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ruger .454 View Post
    Mr. Canby,
    Evidently you are unaware that dissenting discussions on ALOC have proven very problematic of late. Posts get deleted without discussion, the membership gets locked out of whole threads that become available only to the appointed hierarchy, etc. That's why this work (and it is work) is being done here. Please be patient with us. We will sort this out in due course.
    I stand by my original comment, that this is an organizational, membership argument that has nothing to do with the issues surrounding open carry. IMO, if you don't like how ALOC is run, you should start your own website.

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    Thumbs up

    Quote Originally Posted by JamesCanby View Post
    I stand by my original comment, that this is an organizational, membership argument that has nothing to do with the issues surrounding open carry. IMO, if you don't like how ALOC is run, you should start your own website.
    I agree 100% And furthermore had nothing to do with the original post.
    Last edited by Dianosis; 07-01-2011 at 11:50 AM.

  24. #24
    Regular Member riverrat10k's Avatar
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    Eye95- ok bud. But it ain't your call where I post on OCDO!

    Expect you to stay out of any other States thread if you expect same from me.

    Best of luck to you all. Sincerely.

    Sic Semper Tyrannus

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dianosis View Post
    The last 2 threads I started under the Alabama section were for information and to bring awareness to an updated tool. My goal was to further the oc movement in Alabama, nothing more. If you look at the original posts in both those threads they will reflect that. I in no way shape or form instigated the comments that followed.

    Reading through the posts it's abundantly clear who and where the problems started and in my opinion got off topic. I also think that it's abundantly clear to everyone that the negative comments posted after the original posts were done so out of retaliation and to derail the thread.

    I find it hard to believe the sincerity of someone thats claims they are fighting to make the movement better, but then turn around and attack helpful informational posts, for no other reason than to sooth a bruised ego.
    Emphasis mine

    I might not care much for eye95, but this statement is simply asinine though its sentiment has become common among many in Alabama of late. To contend that someone is not sincere about OC freedom or anything else because that person voices disagreement about methods, strategy or anything else of that nature is a logical fallacy; such attacks on the person instead of the logic and subject matter are red herrings.

    Without logical discussion there can be no consensus of people, only a smorgasbord of dissent, high emotion, and many times dictated positions and ideas of a few being misrepresented as the ideas of many.

    These discussions are happening here because the moderators of this site do so strictly by the rules of the forum and only when violations are flagrant and highly obvious, but no personal attacks, and no violations of the rules by the moderator. If simple disagreement falls within highly obvious violations of the rules, the forum is useless and is more like a personal weblog.
    Last edited by Daylen; 07-01-2011 at 05:00 PM. Reason: attempt at removing what some see as offensive

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