ALOC Forum Update

Mr. Canby,
Evidently you are unaware that dissenting discussions on ALOC have proven very problematic of late. Posts get deleted without discussion, the membership gets locked out of whole threads that become available only to the appointed hierarchy, etc. That's why this work (and it is work) is being done here. Please be patient with us. We will sort this out in due course.

Ruger .454 said:

Mr. Canby,
Evidently you are unaware that dissenting discussions on ALOC have proven very problematic of late. Posts get deleted without discussion, the membership gets locked out of whole threads that become available only to the appointed hierarchy, etc. That's why this work (and it is work) is being done here. Please be patient with us. We will sort this out in due course.

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I stand by my original comment, that this is an organizational, membership argument that has nothing to do with the issues surrounding open carry. IMO, if you don't like how ALOC is run, you should start your own website.

JamesCanby said:

I stand by my original comment, that this is an organizational, membership argument that has nothing to do with the issues surrounding open carry. IMO, if you don't like how ALOC is run, you should start your own website.

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I agree 100% And furthermore had nothing to do with the original post.

Eye95- ok bud. But it ain't your call where I post on OCDO!

Expect you to stay out of any other States thread if you expect same from me.

Best of luck to you all. Sincerely.

Sic Semper Tyrannus

Dianosis said:

The last 2 threads I started under the Alabama section were for information and to bring awareness to an updated tool. My goal was to further the oc movement in Alabama, nothing more. If you look at the original posts in both those threads they will reflect that. I in no way shape or form instigated the comments that followed.

Reading through the posts it's abundantly clear who and where the problems started and in my opinion got off topic. I also think that it's abundantly clear to everyone that the negative comments posted after the original posts were done so out of retaliation and to derail the thread.

I find it hard to believe the sincerity of someone thats claims they are fighting to make the movement better, but then turn around and attack helpful informational posts, for no other reason than to sooth a bruised ego.

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Emphasis mine

I might not care much for eye95, but this statement is simply asinine though its sentiment has become common among many in Alabama of late. To contend that someone is not sincere about OC freedom or anything else because that person voices disagreement about methods, strategy or anything else of that nature is a logical fallacy; such attacks on the person instead of the logic and subject matter are red herrings.

Without logical discussion there can be no consensus of people, only a smorgasbord of dissent, high emotion, and many times dictated positions and ideas of a few being misrepresented as the ideas of many.

These discussions are happening here because the moderators of this site do so strictly by the rules of the forum and only when violations are flagrant and highly obvious, but no personal attacks, and no violations of the rules by the moderator. If simple disagreement falls within highly obvious violations of the rules, the forum is useless and is more like a personal weblog.

Let's see, I'm from Colorado, not 'Bama. But then, this is one site on a national, even kind of international, forum and you Rednecks are certainly welcome to visit the Colorado section anytime you like. That being said, and without actually reading the AL forum which is the instant case, I'll offer my 2cents. Any forum dedicated to your state's fight to improve RKBA in AL--which needs improvement, and a surprisingly large amount from my Yankee perspective, became a lesser voice when you kicked eye off of it. Just my opinion, which clearly I'm not shy about stating on this forum, but an honest one. I won't go any further into it, am not looking for a debate based on personalities, and feel free to call me a damned Yankee. But my experience is that the Right should have room at its table for a diverse group. Our enemies on the Left do, and we decline at our own peril. Now, back to my Rocky Mountains...

JamesCanby said:

I stand by my original comment, that this is an organizational, membership argument that has nothing to do with the issues surrounding open carry. IMO, if you don't like how ALOC is run, you should start your own website.

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And if you don't like the folks in Alabama using the Alabama sub-forum of OCDO to discuss options for State organization(s), then I suggest that you stay in the Virginia forum and stop trying to foment trouble in another State's forum. Because that is precisely what you are doing: instigating trouble in a place where you have no legitimate interest other than as an outside agitator.

We are not just discussing ALOC here. We are discussing how OC can be supported by organizations, of which ALOC may be just one, making ALOC a tangential discussion.

Gunslinger said:

Let's see, I'm from Colorado, not 'Bama. But then, this is one site on a national, even kind of international, forum and you Rednecks are certainly welcome to visit the Colorado section anytime you like. That being said, and without actually reading the AL forum which is the instant case, I'll offer my 2cents. Any forum dedicated to your state's fight to improve RKBA in AL--which needs improvement, and a surprisingly large amount from my Yankee perspective, became a lesser voice when you kicked eye off of it. Just my opinion, which clearly I'm not shy about stating on this forum, but an honest one. I won't go any further into it, am not looking for a debate based on personalities, and feel free to call me a damned Yankee. But my experience is that the Right should have room at its table for a diverse group. Our enemies on the Left do, and we decline at our own peril. Now, back to my Rocky Mountains...

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A Yankee is someone from up North. A damned Yankee is someone from up North who moves down South...and stays. You are just a Yankee. I am a damned Yankee.

Gunslinger said:

Any forum dedicated to your state's fight to improve RKBA in AL--which needs improvement, and a surprisingly large amount from my Yankee perspective, became a lesser voice when you kicked eye off of it.

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Agreed! Eye95 was not the only ALOC member abruptly kicked of the forum. I was also banned. Both Eye and I were Regional Coordinators. (Two weeks prior to being banned, I had withdrawn from being a regional coordinator because I could no longer in good conscience be counted among LOC "leadership." As far as I know Eye95 went straight from Regional Coordinator to being banned.) I don't know how it was done to Eye, but I found out that I was banned when I tried to enter the site one day and was greeted with a notice that I was banned. Subsequently that notice was modified to state that I was banned forever with no recourse. I received no e-mail, no phone call, nothing - not from the owner of the ALOC site nor from my co-regional coordinator. A thread on the ALOC forum that addressed this action was locked within just 2 hours of the post that originated it. The owner of the site slammed the door on any discussion of what he'd done.

And what was the crime for which I was locked out? I advocated ambassadorship - a respectful and cooperative approach to the law enforcement community. In the area of north Alabama where I live, the sheriff and his chief deputy have both made it clear that they do not support nor sympathize with OC. The chief deputy has stated unequivocally that if a man-with-a-gun call is made, the person will be arrested regardless that OC is legal in the state of Alabama and that the charge will be disorderly conduct. In recent months two people in Alabama have been arrested and convicted for disturbing the peace because they were carrying openly. So I advocated an approach to achieving our OC goals that does not lead to arrest and possible conviction - working with the law enforcement community rather than challenging them. This, on the ALOC forums, is considered unacceptable dissent and thus I was banned.

This is why Eye95 and I are posting here - we can't post on our home state's site because the owner of that site administers his site as I have described and which you have found objectionable. Eye95 and I agree on almost nothing - he was banned for different reasons than I - but I think we do agree on one thing, and that is that what currently passes for leadership on ALOC isn't conducive to the attainment of long term open carry goals.

Ruger .454 said:

Agreed! Eye95 was not the only ALOC member abruptly kicked of the forum. I was also banned. Both Eye and I were Regional Coordinators until we, um, weren't. I don't know how it was done to Eye, but I found out that I was banned when I tried to enter the site one day and was greeted with a notice that I was banned. Subsequently that notice was modified to state that I was banned forever with no recourse. I received no e-mail, no phone call, nothing - not from the owner of the ALOC site nor from my co-regional coordinator. A thread on the ALOC forum that addressed this action was locked within just 2 hours of the post that originated it. The owner of the site slammed the door on any discussion of what he'd done.

And what was the crime for which I was locked out? I advocated ambassadorship - a respectful and cooperative approach to the law enforcement community. In the area of north Alabama where I live, the sheriff and his chief deputy have both made it clear that they do not support nor sympathize with OC. The chief deputy has stated unequivocally that if a man-with-a-gun call is made, the person will be arrested regardless that OC is legal in the state of Alabama and that the charge will be disorderly conduct. In recent months two people in Alabama have been arrested and convicted for disturbing the peace because they were carrying openly. So I advocated an approach to achieving our OC goals that does not lead to arrest and possible conviction - working with the law enforcement community rather than challenging them. This, on the ALOC forums, is considered unacceptable dissent and thus I was banned.

This is why Eye95 and I are posting here - we can't post on our home state's site because the owner of that site administers his site as I have described and which you have found objectionable. Eye95 and I agree on almost nothing - he was banned for different reasons than I - but I think we do agree on one thing, and that is that what currently passes for leadership on ALOC isn't conducive to the attainment of long term open carry goals.

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You reinforce my statement that there must be room at the table of those who believe in our rights from a broad spectrum. I probably would disagree with you on "ambassadorship" strongly, as I do with eye in several areas, but that doesn't mean I wouldn't welcome your opinion and the chance to change it. Nor does it mean I wouldn't acknowledge your perspective--as I do his, in the pantheon of our cause wherein the end game is what matters.

Gunslinger said:

You reinforce my statement that there must be room at the table of those who believe in our rights from a broad spectrum. I probably would disagree with you on "ambassadorship" strongly, as I do with eye in several areas, but that doesn't mean I wouldn't welcome your opinion and the chance to change it. Nor does it mean I wouldn't acknowledge your perspective--as I do his, in the pantheon of our cause wherein the end game is what matters.

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Thank you, sir. I would caution, however, that some might interpret your final statement as the-ends-justify-the-means.

[Note: I have inserted a parenthetical in my post above to clarify my status when I was banned.]

This sounds very familiar we had such a situation in MI as well a number of years ago and sadly the once premier gun rights org in MI is no more and had to be replaced by several others. Personally I feel when this sort of thing happens that it is likely not long before the entire organzation folds... those of you that have been kicked out might want to be ready to step into the vacume when and if that happens!

Best of luck and I agree diversity in any organization is good as it helps with the outside the box thinking!

Sent from my Droid Flipside using Tapatalk

We are in discussions to form a membership-driven, formal organization. I think that it would be great if the current informal organization, ALOC, would either be the genesis of this new organization, or voluntarily become a part of it.

However, the formal organization will be formed either way, and it (with ALOC a part of it or not) will be able to claim that it represents its grassroots membership to the courts, to LE, and to the legislature. ALOC cannot make such a claim in the current circumstance as it is the wholly-owned subsidiary of one man.

Ruger .454 said:

Thank you, sir. I would caution, however, that some might interpret your final statement as the-ends-justify-the-means.

[Note: I have inserted a parenthetical in my post above to clarify my status when I was banned.]

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"There is no extremism in the cause of liberty."

Barry Goldwater

Gunslinger said:

"There is no extremism in the cause of liberty."

Barry Goldwater

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That's mighty interesting hyperbole. Was Mr. Goldwater ever arrested or convicted for anything related to the cause or liberty?

Ruger .454 said:

That's mighty interesting hyperbole. Was Mr. Goldwater ever arrested or convicted for anything related to the cause or liberty?

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Not that I'm aware of. He just served it his whole life, from an Air Force General to multi-term US Senator.

The full quote for all who are interested:

Barry Goldwater from his 1964 Presidential Candidate acceptance speech said:

I would remind you that extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice! And let me remind you also that moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue!

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If a man like him had been elected President things might not be as bad as they are now.

Brimstone Baritone said:

The full quote for all who are interested:


If a man like him had been elected President things might not be as bad as they are now.

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Amen. And there would be a lot fewer names on The Wall.

I don't disagree.

The hell is going on here..

Haven't been back to OCDO for a long time, and this is what awaits me?

I'm a Region 2 Co-Ordinator and the earliest Alabama OC'er to still be active and I never voted to ban Eye, Ruger, or anyone.

We can't let our movement be derailed by anything. I've personally lost too much to let that happen.

Get it together, guys!