• We are now running on a new, and hopefully much-improved, server. In addition we are also on new forum software. Any move entails a lot of technical details and I suspect we will encounter a few issues as the new server goes live. Please be patient with us. It will be worth it! :) Please help by posting all issues here.
  • The forum will be down for about an hour this weekend for maintenance. I apologize for the inconvenience.
  • If you are having trouble seeing the forum then you may need to clear your browser's DNS cache. Click here for instructions on how to do that
  • Please review the Forum Rules frequently as we are constantly trying to improve the forum for our members and visitors.

Fed Marijuana Law Change

stainless1911

Banned
Joined
Dec 19, 2009
Messages
8,855
Location
Davisburg, Michigan, United States
I heard on WMUZ yesterday that Ron Paul and Bernie Frank proposed a law to re-legalize weed at the federal level, puting it on the same schedule as alcohol.

freedaweed.jpg


Maybe the will of the people who have spoken loudly for decades, will finally be enacted.

policestate.jpg
 

Badger Johnson

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 12, 2011
Messages
1,213
Location
USA
Though I'm a teetotaler and not in favor of MJ or alcohol, and don't want my bus driver high, I think there's a good enough reason to decrim. based on it putting a lot of 'pushers' out of business, and by default, freeing up LEOs to police real crime, physical stuff, burglary, car jacking and get away from no-knock warrants for victimless crimes.

Question is, if it's decrim., will people serving sentences for simple possession (if any) be released?

Don't know if my view is naive but, istm, making fairly harmless stuff illegal invites more crime via black market enterprise.

$.02
 

eye95

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 6, 2010
Messages
13,524
Location
Fairborn, Ohio, USA
Marijuana should not be a federal concern. Regulation or outlawing of marijuana (and other drugs, for that matter) should be a local or State concern. I prefer to live where such drugs are outlawed, but if California wants to get high, let it.

It is reasonable that the feds provide an information clearing house on drugs, and possibly even provide the States with recommended laws and regulations (that saves each State having to reinvent the wheel), but leave it to the States to decide drug policy for themselves.

Interstate and international drug trafficking is a legitimate concern of the feds.

This would create a checkerboard of laws across the nation, but this creates a system of competitive federalism. Some States would liberally allow drug use. That will prove ineffective. Some States will remain restrictive and will use LE inappropriately to enforce those restrictions. That will prove ineffective too. The competition of different systems will promote the most effective systems, cause the most ineffective systems to disappear, and provide the people with a level of choice that maximizes Liberty.

Federalism, horizontal separation of powers, was one of the best ideas of the Framers. We need to get back to it.

$.03 (continuing the arithmetic sequence with entry t sub 3)
 
Last edited:

Dreamer

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 23, 2009
Messages
5,360
Location
Grennsboro NC
If the Federal prohibition on "Marijuana" (actually it is illegal to grow cannabis if ANY kind in the US without a special tax stamp, not just the kind you smoke) as effected by the Marijuana Tax Act of 1937 had been even MARGINALLY based in any sort of legitimate scientific, medical, or criminological data, then perhaps there would be even one atom of legitimacy to arguing FOR any sort of regulation on "Marijuana" on ANY level--state, federal, or local...

But because the Marijuana Tax Act of 1937 was ENTIRELY based on overt racism, classism, and the collusion between I.E.DuPont, the Hearst newspaper empire, and Harry J. Anslinger, the head of the Federal Bureau of Narcotics (a sociopathic bureaucratic climber and virulent racist and anti-Semite) in an attempt to eliminate the ONLY natural fiber that offered competition to wood pulp or nylon, there is simply NO legal, medical, scientific, criminological, or MORAL ground to stand on for the continued prohibition of "Marijuana".

"Marijuana" Prohibition is one of the last vestiges of "Jim Crow" law on the Federal level (well, aside from ALL Federal "gun control" laws), and should be an embarrassment and a moral outrage to anyone with a conscience, knowledge of history, or a modicum of humanity...

Not to mention, that legalizing Cannabis would perhaps be the single most powerful tool to revitalizing the Agriculture, Manufacturing, and Construction sectors in the US, and would dramatically reduce our dependency on oil for fuel and chemical feedstocks...
 
Last edited:

SourKraut

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 16, 2011
Messages
113
Location
Wisconsin
....don't want my bus driver high, ....

Is your bus driver drunk on alchohol now? I sure hope not!

I'm not a doper or a drinker, but I use tobacco. I wonder if the taxed packages of MJ will have graghic photos on them of people laying around doing nothin', kind of like the commercial cigarettes will soon require photos of sick people?

I'm pretty indifferent as to wether or not MJ is decriminalized, but I am deadset against taxing "sin". You cannot legislate morality. Taxes allow black markets to exist in my opinion.

You know how most states require a "license" to carry concealed? Yeah, that's a tax.
 

hermannr

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 24, 2011
Messages
2,327
Location
Okanogan Highland
I am very much for the federal decriminalization of all drugs, MJ is a good start. The drug problem is a medical problem, that, because it is a legal problem now, makes it ripe for the same types that ruled during the prohibition of alcohol.

The only thing the "war on drugs" has done is make a lot of criminals very wealthy, and put a lot of people in jail that have no reason to be there. (not counting the people who have died in "drug raids", so at the wrong address.

If a state or local government wants to be so shortsighted as to keep it up, that is their problem, the fed should have nothing to do with it. There are over the counter drugs that are more dangerous to the public than MJ is. No, I do not use, nor ever have used MJ or any other illegal drug.

Never forget, Prohibition brought you the NFA 34.
 
Last edited:

marshaul

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Aug 13, 2007
Messages
11,188
Location
Fairfax County, Virginia
Bunch of good posts here.

Even eye95's contribution is reasonable, while I may disagree with some of his preferences.

I'd also like to point out that this is one of those times where, paranoid conspiracy-theorist or not, Dreamer is basically right on the money.
 

stainless1911

Banned
Joined
Dec 19, 2009
Messages
8,855
Location
Davisburg, Michigan, United States
Some people cant function on pot, some can, it affects different people differently. If the bus driver cant drive on it, then he shouldn't, some people function better on it. If he is or isnt driving while high, has nothing to do with the law. If he wants to smoke, he isnt waiting for the .gov to give him permission or not.
 

Dreamer

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 23, 2009
Messages
5,360
Location
Grennsboro NC
I'd also like to point out that this is one of those times where, paranoid conspiracy-theorist or not, Dreamer is basically right on the money.


I'll take that s a compliment...

You know what the difference between an "historian" and a "conspiracy theorist" is?

An "historian" uses meticulous research, prolific citations, and deductive reasoning to convince you that they know what caused events that already occurred.

A "conspiracy theorist" uses meticulous research, prolific citations, and deductive reasoning to explain how past and recent events are leading to events in the future.

It's just a matter of time... :uhoh:
 
Last edited:

Sabotage70

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 14, 2009
Messages
844
Location
Fabulous Las Vegas, NV, ,
If the Federal prohibition on "Marijuana" (actually it is illegal to grow cannabis if ANY kind in the US without a special tax stamp, not just the kind you smoke) as effected by the Marijuana Tax Act of 1937 had been even MARGINALLY based in any sort of legitimate scientific, medical, or criminological data, then perhaps there would be even one atom of legitimacy to arguing FOR any sort of regulation on "Marijuana" on ANY level--state, federal, or local...

But because the Marijuana Tax Act of 1937 was ENTIRELY based on overt racism, classism, and the collusion between I.E.DuPont, the Hearst newspaper empire, and Harry J. Anslinger, the head of the Federal Bureau of Narcotics (a sociopathic bureaucratic climber and virulent racist and anti-Semite) in an attempt to eliminate the ONLY natural fiber that offered competition to wood pulp or nylon, there is simply NO legal, medical, scientific, criminological, or MORAL ground to stand on for the continued prohibition of "Marijuana".

"Marijuana" Prohibition is one of the last vestiges of "Jim Crow" law on the Federal level (well, aside from ALL Federal "gun control" laws), and should be an embarrassment and a moral outrage to anyone with a conscience, knowledge of history, or a modicum of humanity...

Not to mention, that legalizing Cannabis would perhaps be the single most powerful tool to revitalizing the Agriculture, Manufacturing, and Construction sectors in the US, and would dramatically reduce our dependency on oil for fuel and chemical feedstocks...

Very well put. You must have read some of the same stuff I have. Nobody ever ask themselves why is it illegal in the first place.

Why is Marijuana Illegal?
 

Badger Johnson

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 12, 2011
Messages
1,213
Location
USA
Some people cant function on pot, some can, it affects different people differently. If the bus driver cant drive on it, then he shouldn't, some people function better on it. If he is or isnt driving while high, has nothing to do with the law. If he wants to smoke, he isnt waiting for the .gov to give him permission or not.

Yes, thanks for defining that point. Let me amend and say 'I don't want my bus driver driving impaired' and they can test for impairment. What he's drinking or smoking is really irrelevant and the issue is his ability, to drive safely and effectively.
 

oak1971

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 8, 2008
Messages
1,937
Location
Wisconsin, USA
Sure, because the most pressing problem facing our country is the right to get stoned.

Insert sarcasm here.
 

marshaul

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Aug 13, 2007
Messages
11,188
Location
Fairfax County, Virginia
Sure, because the most pressing problem facing our country is the right to get stoned.

Insert sarcasm here.

Considering the scope and scale of the negative effects of prohibition, I'd say, yeah, taking steps to end it is one of the most pressing problems facing our country, without question.

Or do you like the thought of police "mistakenly" serving a no-knock warrant on your home based on the information from a confidential "informant", and carrying out a "dynamic entry" while you're asleep with a loaded pistol by your bed?

Prohibition hath wrought that.
 
Last edited:

marshaul

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Aug 13, 2007
Messages
11,188
Location
Fairfax County, Virginia
I'll take that s a compliment...

You know what the difference between an "historian" and a "conspiracy theorist" is?

An "historian" uses meticulous research, prolific citations, and deductive reasoning to convince you that they know what caused events that already occurred.

A "conspiracy theorist" uses meticulous research, prolific citations, and deductive reasoning to explain how past and recent events are leading to events in the future.

It's just a matter of time... :uhoh:

You should take it as a compliment. I don't necessarily share all your conclusions, but I'm right there with you on many others, and have been for some time.

Regarding history, I'd simply point out that a careful reading of it supports many of your assertions, even some seemingly wild ones.

Regarding conspiracies, while they undoubtedly exist, I tend to take the "headless blunder" view for the most part. This, however, certainly doesn't preclude many of these explanations which might seem as only possibly arising out of conspiracy, but which can actually be explained through careful analysis of individual incentive and its amalgamated effect.
 
Last edited:

KBCraig

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 7, 2007
Messages
4,886
Location
Granite State of Mind
Prohibition of alcohol required the 18th Amendment (ratified in 1919), to give the federal government any authority over the matter.

That authority was revoked by passage of the 21st Amendment (ratified in 1933). So, similar prohibitions regarding marijuana, having nothing to do with actual interstate commerce, must require a constitutional amendment, right?

Well. So one might think, until fast-forwarding less than 10 years into the future. In 1942, SCOTUS ruled that an Ohio farmer named Roscoe Filburn could rightly be fined 49 cents per bushel of wheat above what the federal government said he was allowed to grow, even though the wheat was grown and consumed entirely on his own farm (as livestock feed and wheat flour for his family). The logic was that by growing his own wheat, he wasn't buying wheat/feed/flour from others, some of which might come from other states, thus affecting interstate commerce and making wheat grown and consumed at home subject to congressional oversight.

Absurd? Yes. Relevance to marijuana laws? Gonzales v. Raich.

Relying on their absurd ruling in Wickard, and their slavish dependence upon stare decisis, the Court compounded their predecessors' previous idiocy by ruling that marijuana grown, sold, and consumed entirely within one state, in accordance with that state's laws, is subject to the interstate commerce clause because it's possible that an out-of-state drug dealer had been deprived of his illegal trade by the medical patient who grew and consumed his own herbal remedy.

The Gun Free School Zones Act relies upon the same tenuous --vaporous, even-- connection to "interstate commerce".

It's time to cast these horrible misinterpretations of the Constitution aside. I don't know how we'll do that, short of hitting the reset button (and I don't think we're at that point, yet).

That makes it all the more maddening: all thinking people can clearly see where SCOTUS is logically wrong, but there's nothing we can do about it.
 
Last edited:

Kirbinator

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 22, 2010
Messages
903
Location
Middle of the map, Alabama
We've got too many stoners in jail, and these are people who are typically arrested of the crime of being stupid in front of a cop. Decriminalizing frees up space for other more dangerous folks.

I don't think you'll see someone stealing aluminum or copper to buy weed. But a stimulant like cocaine or meth, you'll see people scale building in broad light to buy....
 
Top