Carrying in Windsor Castle Park - Smithfield

Glockster · Jun 26, 2011

Was planning a trip to this Smithfield city park and found the following in their Park User Guide:
"4) Weapons
Unauthorized persons shall not carry concealed weapons, nor shall they have on or about their person dangerous or deadly weapons, in public park and recreation facilities. Further no hunting is allowed."

The above seems rather interesting as to me it seems to be an attempt to imply that you cannot OC or CC. Obviously only "authorized" persons can CC, so they're word gaming that, but then doesn't their "dangerous or deadly weapons" part of the statement imply no carry? Which they of course cannot do. Is this just them being "clever" in trying to imply that you cannot carry or am I reading too much into this?

Added: Found that this is actually also codified in their Code of Ordinances:
Sec. 70-221 Rules and regulations for Windsor Castle Park:
(4) Weapons. Unauthorized persons shall not carry concealed weapons, nor shall they have on or about their person dangerous or deadly weapons, in public park and recreation facilities. Further no hunting is allowed.

peter nap · Jun 26, 2011

drdan01 said:
Was planning a trip to this Smithfield city park and found the following in their Park User Guide:
"4) Weapons
Unauthorized persons shall not carry concealed weapons, nor shall they have on or about their person dangerous or deadly weapons, in public park and recreation facilities. Further no hunting is allowed."

The above seems rather interesting as to me it seems to be an attempt to imply that you cannot OC or CC. Obviously only "authorized" persons can CC, so they're word gaming that, but then doesn't their "dangerous or deadly weapons" part of the statement imply no carry? Which they of course cannot do. Is this just them being "clever" in trying to imply that you cannot carry or am I reading too much into this?

Added: Found that this is actually also codified in their Code of Ordinances:
Sec. 70-221 Rules and regulations for Windsor Castle Park:
(4) Weapons. Unauthorized persons shall not carry concealed weapons, nor shall they have on or about their person dangerous or deadly weapons...., in public park and recreation facilities. Further no hunting is allowed.

After you get a CHP you're authorized to CC

nor shall they have on or about their person dangerous or deadly weapons

Preemption knocked that out as far as firearms.

No Hunting they can get away with.

TFred · Jun 26, 2011

A quick look reveals that Smithfield has a number of preempted ordinances still on the books. They need some serious housekeeping.

Anybody live in the county who wants to let them know about it?

Smithfield Municode

They have violations of both regular preemption as well as the new BB gun preemption.

TFred

peter nap · Jun 26, 2011

TFred said:
A quick look reveals that Smithfield has a number of preempted ordinances still on the books. They need some serious housekeeping.

Anybody live in the county who wants to let them know about it?

Smithfield Municode

They have violations of both regular preemption as well as the new BB gun preemption.

TFred

If we don't have an locals I'll do it Tfred. It's close enough to Surry that it feels like a second home.

MSC 45ACP · Jun 26, 2011

peter nap said:
If we don't have an locals I'll do it Tfred. It's close enough to Surry that it feels like a second home.

If you go down there, drop me a line. I'd like to join you if I'm available.

I know someone that lives in that area, but I think he's playing sandbox volleyball at the moment.

Craig? You back home yet?

ODA 226 · Jun 27, 2011

MSC 45ACP said:
If you go down there, drop me a line. I'd like to join you if I'm available.

I know someone that lives in that area, but I think he's playing sandbox volleyball at the moment.

Craig? You back home yet?

Mike,
I'm back and I carry concealed at Windsor Park on a regular basis. I've never seen any signs posted before but I'm ready to assist as always.
Craig

MSC 45ACP · Jun 27, 2011

Welcome Back, Big Brother.
I'm glad to hear of your safe return. Hope you didn't grow too many more grey hairs during your deployment.
I know you shave them so we don't know how many you really have with your job and family as contributors. How did your PEQ-2 hold up while you were there? I hope it reminded you of me every time you used it.
Are you getting old enough to use a PEQ-6 yet? It sucks getting old... Don't do it. The eyes are usually the Second "thing" to go... ;-)

Very Respectfully;
Mike

peter nap · Jun 27, 2011

MSC 45ACP said:
Welcome Back, Big Brother.
I'm glad to hear of your safe return. Hope you didn't grow too many more grey hairs during your deployment.
I know you shave them so we don't know how many you really have with your job and family as contributors. How did your PEQ-2 hold up while you were there? I hope it reminded you of me every time you used it.
Are you getting old enough to use a PEQ-6 yet? It sucks getting old... Don't do it. The eyes are usually the Second "thing" to go... ;-)

Very Respectfully;
Mike

Why ODA.............are you using a laser?:banana:

paramedic70002 · Jun 27, 2011

Smithfield's not part of my AO usually but I had thought about checking out that park one day. Tuning in...

ODA 226 · Jun 28, 2011

I just sent a certified letter to the Smithfield Town Manager regarding this issue. I'll post his response once I receive it.

Glockster · Jun 28, 2011

Seems like that since I started this by asking the question that I should say thank you. So, thanks for jumping on this!

ODA 226 · Jun 29, 2011

peter nap said:
why oda.............are you using a laser?:banana:

nope!

ODA 226 · Jul 1, 2011

I received a prompt reply from the Town Manager:

Mr. ODA 226,

I am in receipt of your letter regarding the language in our park handout. I will be providing a copy of this to our Police Department for their review. Should the language need to be amended to comply with state code I am more than happy to make such changes. I simply “borrowed” the original language based on examples I had received from other public park facilities in the region.

Peter M. Stephenson, AICP, ICMA-CM
Smithfield Town Manager
Immediate Past President, VLGMA

I responded with:

Mr. Stephenson,
Please accept my thanks for your quick reply. In no way do I want to have an adversarial relationship with you or the Town of Smithfield. I am just a citizen concerned with firearms rights under the Constitution of Virginia.

May I suggest that you address this issue to the Isle of Wight Commonwealth's Attorney's Office or to the State Attorney General's Office. I believe they would be better positioned to advise you about this issue than the Smithfield Police Department.

Recently,there have been other localities in Virginia that had similar verbiage printed in their park rules who were forced to remove the ban on the legal carry of firearms, the most recent one I can recall was Waterside Park in Norfolk.

Please keep me advised of your actions and I thank you once again for your quick reply!

Happy Independence Day!

I will post any updates as soon as I receive them.

ODA 226 · Jul 5, 2011

Quick resolution!

I just received this from the Town Manager:

Mr. ODA 226,

Thank you once again for your letter requesting language revisions to our park general use guide that we circulate via single sheet, folded paper copy at the park entrances. Paragraph 4 regarding Weapons has been revised as suggested to read, “Illegal weapons are not permitted in public park and recreation facilities. Further no hunting is allowed.” We are making new copies today for distribution. Old copies (pre-revision) that remain in the boxes will be removed and recycled, and we will place the new version in each of the entrance boxes. I took this opportunity to make a few other unrelated changes so the timing worked out well. I appreciate you bringing this issue to my attention.

Peter M. Stephenson, AICP, ICMA-CM
Town Manager - Smithfield, Virginia

I think this is a very quick response and resolution to this situation.

226

Glockster · Jul 5, 2011

Excellent! Did they also say that they were changing the ordinance that the park rules came from?

ODA 226 said:
I just received this from the Town Manager:

Mr. ODA 226,

Thank you once again for your letter requesting language revisions to our park general use guide that we circulate via single sheet, folded paper copy at the park entrances. Paragraph 4 regarding Weapons has been revised as suggested to read, “Illegal weapons are not permitted in public park and recreation facilities. Further no hunting is allowed.” We are making new copies today for distribution. Old copies (pre-revision) that remain in the boxes will be removed and recycled, and we will place the new version in each of the entrance boxes. I took this opportunity to make a few other unrelated changes so the timing worked out well. I appreciate you bringing this issue to my attention.

Peter M. Stephenson, AICP, ICMA-CM
Town Manager - Smithfield, Virginia

I think this is a very quick response and resolution to this situation.

226

peter nap · Jul 5, 2011

ODA 226 said:
I just received this from the Town Manager:

Mr. ODA 226,

Thank you once again for your letter requesting language revisions to our park general use guide that we circulate via single sheet, folded paper copy at the park entrances. Paragraph 4 regarding Weapons has been revised as suggested to read, “Illegal weapons are not permitted in public park and recreation facilities. Further no hunting is allowed.” We are making new copies today for distribution. Old copies (pre-revision) that remain in the boxes will be removed and recycled, and we will place the new version in each of the entrance boxes. I took this opportunity to make a few other unrelated changes so the timing worked out well. I appreciate you bringing this issue to my attention.

Peter M. Stephenson, AICP, ICMA-CM
Town Manager - Smithfield, Virginia

I think this is a very quick response and resolution to this situation.

226

ODA 226 · Jul 5, 2011

My Reply to Town Manager

Mr. Stephenson,
Thank you for your quick reaction to my letter and taking positive steps to come to a resolution.

If you haven't consulted the Smithfield Police Department on this issue, could you please advise the Chief of Police that Open Carry and licensed Concealed Carry constitutes the LEGAL carry of firearms under Virginia law and that legally armed citizens should not be suspect or otherwise viewed as threats when and if legally carrying firearms at Windsor Castle Park?

Thank you once again Sir!

226

ODA 226 · Jul 5, 2011

drdan01 said:
Excellent! Did they also say that they were changing the ordinance that the park rules came from?

It was never an ordinance. Mr. Stephenson told me that he simply copied Rules and Regulations from other parks in the area, hence my reply to him posted above.

ODA 226 · Jul 5, 2011

Mr. Stephenson's Response to My Last Letter

Yes sir, Chief Marshall concurred with your assessment. This incorrect "borrowed" language was my oversight alone.

Mr. Stephenson has proven to be a real gentleman! We could stand to have more people in government like him!

Glockster · Jul 5, 2011

ODA 226 said:
It was never an ordinance. Mr. Stephenson told me that he simply copied Rules and Regulations from other parks in the area, hence my reply to him posted above.

"Added: Found that this is actually also codified in their Code of Ordinances:
Sec. 70-221 Rules and regulations for Windsor Castle Park:
(4) Weapons. Unauthorized persons shall not carry concealed weapons, nor shall they have on or about their person dangerous or deadly weapons, in public park and recreation facilities. Further no hunting is allowed."

But the above (from my first post) is directly out of the Code of Ordinances. So while they may have copied it from other parks or whatever, they also then included the exact same language in their municipal code. And if that's still there, it would seem that it doesn't matter that they deleted it from the park's flyer?

Carrying in Windsor Castle Park - Smithfield

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