Results 1 to 23 of 23

Thread: U of M property

  1. #1
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    South Lyon, Michigan
    Posts
    78

    U of M property

    Someone posted a means of determining the boundaries of the U of M property a while back. Going to the seafood company for dinner today and want to see where main and LIBERTY !! are in relation to the property boundaries of U of M.

    Thanks !!
    Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.
    Benjamin Franklin

    When seconds count, the Police are just minutes away !!

  2. #2
    Regular Member TheQ's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Lansing, Michigan
    Posts
    3,448
    Go to http://maps.google.com

    U of M property is highlighted in brown, IIRC.

    Liberty and main appear kosher but don't go much further east on Liberty or you could be in trouble.
    Call for a cop, call for an ambulance, and call for a pizza. See who shows up first.

    I am not a lawyer (merely an omnipotent member of a continuum). The contents of this post are not a substitute for sound legal advice from a licensed attorney in your jurisdiction.

    Comments and views stated in my post are my own and do not necessarily represent the views of Michigan Open Carry, Inc. unless stated otherwise in the post.

  3. #3
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    South Lyon, Michigan
    Posts
    78
    Thanks Q

    The resturaunt is on main so I should be ok then. Parking is one block east though. I tried your link and the page displayed blank ??
    Does the google map of the AA area display the UM property by default ?
    Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.
    Benjamin Franklin

    When seconds count, the Police are just minutes away !!

  4. #4
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    South Lyon, Michigan
    Posts
    78
    Quote Originally Posted by TheQ View Post
    Go to http://maps.google.com

    U of M property is highlighted in brown, IIRC.

    Liberty and main appear kosher but don't go much further east on Liberty or you could be in trouble.
    Ok, think I got now. I looked at the map earlier and wondered if all the brown was UM property.... Couldn't imagine that it was. Guess so .... Liberals own it all...well almost..lol

    Looks like parking will be ok just can't go another block east !!

    Thanks again Q !!
    Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.
    Benjamin Franklin

    When seconds count, the Police are just minutes away !!

  5. #5
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Detroit, Mi, ,
    Posts
    13
    I'm not seeing the brown highlighted area on your Google map. I am curious to know because I am a student there.

  6. #6
    Regular Member kryptonian's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    248
    explain again how that would be a problem if you have a CPL and OC when under mcl750.234 you would be exempt presumably.

  7. #7
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    276
    I still do not understand the legal angle that university's have rules that over ride state law


  8. #8
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    , , USA
    Posts
    11

    Michigan's sidewalk laws suck

    So, the property owner is responsible for the maintenance of the sidewalks. It is technically classified as thier property, but one cannot obstruct a sidewalk as it is a 'public thoroughfare'.

    So everyone gets all the downsides and none of the benefits? One cannot possess a weapon on the sidewalk adjoining UofM property?

  9. #9
    Regular Member TheQ's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Lansing, Michigan
    Posts
    3,448
    Universities are basically their own little cities. They often have their own water treatment plants, power generation, and police. There are even private businesses that are right on University property. They can enact enforceable misdemeanor ordinances like any other city. Their police can arrest you and anally rape your rights to the same extent as any other police organization.

    The my difference is Universities AREN'T listed in MCL 123.1101. Also, unlike "Authorities", they don't derive their power from a city, township, county, etc. They derive their charter directly from the State.
    Call for a cop, call for an ambulance, and call for a pizza. See who shows up first.

    I am not a lawyer (merely an omnipotent member of a continuum). The contents of this post are not a substitute for sound legal advice from a licensed attorney in your jurisdiction.

    Comments and views stated in my post are my own and do not necessarily represent the views of Michigan Open Carry, Inc. unless stated otherwise in the post.

  10. #10
    Michigan Moderator DrTodd's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Hudsonville , Michigan, USA
    Posts
    3,337
    There are exceptions to their rules, too:
    Section 4. Exceptions
    (1) Except to the extent regulated under Subparagraph (2), the prohibitions in
    this Article X do not apply:
    (a) to University employees who are authorized to possess and/or use such
    a device pursuant to Standard Practice Guide 201.94;
    (b) to non-University law enforcement officers of legally established law
    enforcement agencies or to other non-University employees who, in
    either situation, are authorized by their employer to possess or use
    such a device during the time the employee is engaged In work
    requiring such a device;

    (c) when someone possess or uses such a device as part of a military or
    similar uniform or costume In connection with a public ceremony or
    parade or theatrical performance;

    (d) when someone possesses or uses such a device in connection with a
    regularly scheduled educational, recreational or training program
    authorized by the University;
    (e) when someone possess or uses such a device for recreational hunting
    on property which has been designated for such activity by the
    University provided such possession and use is in strict compliance
    with applicable law; or
    (f) when the Director of the University's Department of Public Safety has
    waived the prohibition based on extraordinary circumstances. Any
    such waiver must be in writing and must define its scope and duration.
    (2) The Director of the Department of Public Safety may impose restrictions
    upon individuals who are otherwise authorized to possess or use such a
    device pursuant to Subsection (1) when the Director determines that such
    restrictions are appropriate under the circumstances.

    see Article X: http://www.regents.umich.edu/ordinance.pdf
    Giving up our liberties for safety is the one sure way to let the violent among us win.

    "Though defensive violence will always be a 'sad necessity' in the eyes of men of principle, it would be still more unfortunate if wrongdoers should dominate just men." -Saint Augustine

    Disclaimer I am not a lawyer! Please do not consider anything you read from me to be legal advice.

  11. #11
    Regular Member Greyh Seer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    59
    Is there any possibility for our state's premption law to be strengthened so I don't have to worry about being arrested for some school rule when I might not even be aware I am on thier property?

    What about driving down the streets down there? Are the roads considered university property? As long I a stay in my car am I OK?

    What if I am cc and I am pulled over on a street that has university property on both sides?

  12. #12
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    1,169

    A Statutory Change Would Not Be Enough (Probably)

    Quote Originally Posted by Greyh Seer View Post
    Is there any possibility for our state's premption law to be strengthened so I don't have to worry about being arrested for some school rule when I might not even be aware I am on thier property?

    What about driving down the streets down there? Are the roads considered university property? As long I a stay in my car am I OK?

    What if I am cc and I am pulled over on a street that has university property on both sides?
    You would need a constitutional amendment. Three Michigan institutions derive their status/power directly from the state constitution. While there have been many court cases delimiting the extent of such power, it is still the case that as a general rule they may create and enforce such regulations. Michigan State used this authority to permit concealed weapons on campus (but not in buildings), so their policy is closer to the state statute. Theoretically, any of the three constitutionally incorporated states could permit concealed carry in university buildings, state law notwithstanding. In those instances where any "local government" or "political subdivision" is discussed, it is important to look at the definitions for the particular law in question. Sometimes universites are included, sometimes not.

    STATE CONSTITUTION (EXCERPT)
    CONSTITUTION OF MICHIGAN OF 1963

    Article VIII
    5 University of Michigan, Michigan State University, Wayne State University; controlling boards.

    The regents of the University of Michigan and their successors in office shall constitute a body corporate known as the Regents of the University of Michigan; the trustees of Michigan State University and their successors in office shall constitute a body corporate known as the Board of Trustees of Michigan State University; the governors of Wayne State University and their successors in office shall constitute a body corporate known as the Board of Governors of Wayne State University. Each board shall have general supervision of its institution and the control and direction of all expenditures from the institution's funds. Each board shall, as often as necessary, elect a president of the institution under its supervision. He shall be the principal executive officer of the institution, be ex-officio a member of the board without the right to vote and preside at meetings of the board. The board of each institution shall consist of eight members who shall hold office for terms of eight years and who shall be elected as provided by law. The governor shall fill board vacancies by appointment. Each appointee shall hold office until a successor has been nominated and elected as provided by law.

    History: Const. 1963, Art. VIII, 5, Eff. Jan. 1, 1964
    Former Constitution: See Const. 1908, Art. XI, 3, 4, 5, 7, 8, 16.


    Other public colleges and universities have similar provisions but they are creatures of the legislature (established by the state) and thus can be more tightly controlled (if the legislature choses to do so). For example, the legislature could dissolve Western Michigan University but could not do so to any of the Big Three.
    Last edited by apjonas; 06-29-2011 at 02:24 PM.

  13. #13
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    276
    So, they only have to follow the State constitution. Is that what I am reading? I would think that if they "..get their charter directly from the state" They would have to f
    ollow the law of the state.

  14. #14
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Farmington Hills, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    538
    Michigan's constitution is the supreme law of the state. Therefore, they ARE following the law of the state.

  15. #15
    Regular Member Greyh Seer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    59
    So the only way to get university carry or to force premption on the universities is to change the constitution?

    Would it be easier to get the SCOM to call university firearm laws unconstitutional?

  16. #16
    Michigan Moderator DrTodd's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Hudsonville , Michigan, USA
    Posts
    3,337
    Quote Originally Posted by Greyh Seer View Post
    So the only way to get university carry or to force premption on the universities is to change the constitution?

    Would it be easier to get the SCOM to call university firearm laws unconstitutional?
    Well, you always could ask the UofM to change their ordinances; Michigan State did.
    Giving up our liberties for safety is the one sure way to let the violent among us win.

    "Though defensive violence will always be a 'sad necessity' in the eyes of men of principle, it would be still more unfortunate if wrongdoers should dominate just men." -Saint Augustine

    Disclaimer I am not a lawyer! Please do not consider anything you read from me to be legal advice.

  17. #17
    Regular Member Greyh Seer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    59
    So, What are the Universities that don't answer to the State? Any one with the "Michigan" in the title?

  18. #18
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    1,169

    My Feelings are Hurt

    Quote Originally Posted by Greyh Seer View Post
    So, What are the Universities that don't answer to the State? Any one with the "Michigan" in the title?
    I went through a lot of time and trouble to post a detailed explanation which includes the answer to your question. It's only a couple of posts away. Excuse me, I'm gonna cry....

  19. #19
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    1,169

    You Need to Read the Brilliant Post by apjonas

    Quote Originally Posted by AAMitch View Post
    I still do not understand the legal angle that university's have rules that over ride state law

    All will be revealed......

  20. #20
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    1,169

    Well Said

    Quote Originally Posted by CoonDog View Post
    Michigan's constitution is the supreme law of the state. Therefore, they ARE following the law of the state.
    Now if people would only read a bit more....

  21. #21
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    1,169

    I Get the Feeling

    Quote Originally Posted by DrTodd View Post
    Well, you always could ask the UofM to change their ordinances; Michigan State did.
    That UM has a condescending attitude towards regular people and cow colleges like Michigan State. Being within 15 feet of a firearm would give the UM administration the vapors.

  22. #22
    Regular Member Greyh Seer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    59

    Don't be sad

    Quote Originally Posted by apjonas View Post
    I went through a lot of time and trouble to post a detailed explanation which includes the answer to your question. It's only a couple of posts away. Excuse me, I'm gonna cry....
    Ahhhh...I somehow missed the list. I figured UofM and MSU, but Wayne state? I'll have to find out where that one is...

    Thanks for the info.

  23. #23
    Regular Member lil_freak_66's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Mason, Michigan
    Posts
    1,811
    Quote Originally Posted by apjonas View Post
    Michigan State used this authority to permit concealed weapons on campus (but not in buildings), so their policy is closer to the state statute.

    i know what im about to say is slightly OT as it relates to MSU and not U of M

    although MSU permits firearms(it seems they no longer mention building restrictions in the ordinance) THEY DO NOT ALLOW ANY EDGED WEAPONS,even in places a firearm can go.

    http://trustees.msu.edu/ordinances/o...ces_sec18.html
    not a lawyer, dont take anything i say as legal advice.


Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •