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Thread: New FOIA to VCU

  1. #1
    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    New FOIA to VCU

    Bear with me a little so you can see how this is gun related.

    One of our members is in MCV. Yesterday I visited and we talked the Doctor into letting us go outside to smoke. No issues yesterday.

    Today he went out alone.
    Three VCU Cops responded (He was in a gown and plugged into an IV}

    There were threats to arrest him for trespassing, theft of hospital property if he crossed the street, to confine him to his room and they claim VCU's policy applies to all grounds outside of the buildings including public streets.

    I think the George Mason decision will play a part in this and I just FOIA'ed the incident.

    What if it had been a gun on his hip (I'm surprised it wasn't. He's one of our most dedicated OC'ers) instead of a cigarette in his hand.
    Last edited by peter nap; 06-26-2011 at 01:41 PM.

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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post
    Bear with me a little so you can see how this is gun related.

    One of our members is in MCV. Yesterday I visited and we talked the Doctor into letting us go outside to smoke. No issues yesterday.

    Today he went out alone.
    Three VCU Cops responded (He was in a gown and plugged into an IV}

    There were threats to arrest him for trespassing, theft of hospital property if he crossed the street, to confine him to his room and they claim VCU's policy applies to all grounds outside of the buildings including public streets.

    I think the George Mason decision will play a part in this and I just FOIA'ed the incident.

    What if it had been a gun on his hip (I'm surprised it wasn't. He's one of our most dedicated OC'ers) instead of a cigarette in his hand.
    Are they saying it's against the law to walk outside from your hospital room? This doesn't even make sense...

    ETA: Oh... is it the smoking thing? On public streets?

    TFred
    Last edited by TFred; 06-26-2011 at 01:54 PM.

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    Founder's Club Member thebigsd's Avatar
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    Where exactly was he supposedly trespassing? Who would the VCU police even respond in the first place?
    "When seconds count between living or dying, the police are only minutes away."

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thebigsd View Post
    Where exactly was he supposedly trespassing? Who would the VCU police even respond in the first place?
    According to them, VCU rules extend into the public streets and walks. That's where The GMU decision comes in.

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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post
    According to them, VCU rules extend into the public streets and walks. That's where The GMU decision comes in.
    Just to be sure we're all on the same page... I assume VCU or at least MCV, bans smoking on their premises... and your point is that the VCU police are claiming sidewalks and streets "count"...

    TFred

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TFred View Post
    Just to be sure we're all on the same page... I assume VCU or at least MCV, bans smoking on their premises... and your point is that the VCU police are claiming sidewalks and streets "count"...

    TFred
    MCV anf VCU are basically one entity TFred.
    They have always banned smoking but last year decided they could also ban what they pleased, on the public sidewalks and roads outside.

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    Regular Member The Wolfhound's Avatar
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    Damn, I hate being right........

    I previously posted that this was the official stance of VCU-MCV as regards to the sidewalks and smoking. My question was and is "How will they interpret these boundries vis a vis firearms?" I think we can interpret that from their harasment of the smoker in question.

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    Accomplished Advocate user's Avatar
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    Their authority to arrest extends to the streets and alleys adjacent to the University grounds. That doesn't mean the school rules extend that far. It means that if someone's got a busted tail light driving down Broad Street past MCV, they can stop them and give them a traffic citation. The extent of the authority to arrest has absolutely nothing to do with what rules apply. They can enforce state law and City of Richmond ordinances on the sidewalk, but not VCU regulations.

    Sounds like false arrest, false imprisonment, and intentional infliction of emotional distress to me. It's perfectly clear that "the member" was not trespassing, he had a perfect right to be on the public right of way, and in fact is "leasing space" in the VCU health system as a tenant.
    Last edited by user; 06-26-2011 at 07:01 PM.
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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    In many ways it is a pity that the VCU Police declined to arrest the individual. All they did was jump up and down and make a lot of noise. The member wisely withheld flicking his cigarette butt into the street until after the grey-clothed brownshirts stormed off to kick a kitten or shoot someone's dog, or whatever else they do. No sense going looking for a littering or arson charge when one is not necessary.

    As for USER's thought that the member may be
    "leasing space" in the VCU health system as a tenant
    - that may in fact prove to be the case. http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/sh...thern-Virginia If things don't get moving, he may wind up on a month-to-month lease.

    stay safe.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    The very handsome dedicated young man was minding his own business, bothering nobody, and soaking up some much needed rays as a result of his temporary confinement at MCV.

    He was on the public sidewalk some 40 ft. from the main hospital entrance dressed nattily in traditional hospital garb. He might have blended in with the nonexistent crowd except that he was tethered to an IV bag/stand w/monitor. He as also enjoying a long standing Virginia tradition of burning a toke of cured bright, flavored with a hint of menthol.

    It has been alleged that this young man was variously told:

    "You can't do that here. You'd have to cross the street (where the conditions are the same) but I can't let you do that (cross the street) with MCV property. I'm going to have to take you back to your room - come with me - you can't be down here, you'll need to stay in your area."

    The young man was exceptionally polite, but firm in that he would not agree to voluntarily transfer the authority from his medical practitioner to the knight in tarnished armor - besides he wasn't done enjoying the nice weather. It as suggested that he could be arrested for trespassing, but the young man didn't fall for that yarn either.

    It would seem that perhaps the tarnished knight doubted that he had a consensual/compliant member of the herd before him as he took leave with the command "Stay here." The young man must have had some difficulty understanding the instruction (wind noise perhaps) as he flanked the opposing elements to await return of the nurse/guide at another prearranged location.

    On his way back to his room he passed officer friendly ( he really was just doing his job) he was heard to exclaim, "You have a nice afternoon now - ya hear." Such a nice young man who tries to follow all of their rules while "in" the hospital - he wouldn't want to be deprived of needed medical services.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Founder's Club Member ixtow's Avatar
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    This Ferry Tale jargon has gone too far... Knight, my posterior orifice.
    "The fourth man's dark, accusing song had scratched our comfort hard and long..."
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    Tyranny with Manners is still Tyranny.

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    Regular Member paramedic70002's Avatar
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    Did they remove the smoking booth that sits at the ambulance entrance? I was there just a few months ago (I think) and it was still there. Or do they only harass non-EMS people?
    "Each worker carried his sword strapped to his side." Nehemiah 4:18

    Guns Save Lives. Paramedics Save Lives. But...
    Paramedics With Guns Scare People!

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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by paramedic70002 View Post
    Did they remove the smoking booth that sits at the ambulance entrance? I was there just a few months ago (I think) and it was still there. Or do they only harass non-EMS people?
    That booth seems to be the official clubhouse for the VCU cops these days.

    I went and visited the very handsome dedicated young man today. He was in generally good spirits in spite of some rumblings about the price of gas and whether or not the dam will hold as the waters continue to rise. He gave a report of rumors some leakage earlier this morning, but said it was all just a bunch of hot air. Plans were made for another trip to the far edges of the sidewalk, weather permitting and the dam does not burst.

    stay safe.

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    old smoking booth is gone, new entrances to the ED are where it used to be. The booth with the VCU Police is the same one they've had for last 20+ years.

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TraumaRN View Post
    old smoking booth is gone, new entrances to the ED are where it used to be. The booth with the VCU Police is the same one they've had for last 20+ years.
    AhHa....an insider!

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post
    AhHa....an insider!
    A view from the inside can be most enlightening, priceless even.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  17. #17
    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Not much in the FOIA but at lest the Chief is aware of it now. Next step is to talk to some members of the General Assembly and see if I can get an AG opinion.
    Editor, Old Virginia News

    The staff involved in this matter are:

    VCU Police Office Neace
    VCUHS Security Officer Thomas
    VCUHS Security officer Walker

    This matter did not generate an incident; therefore there are no radio transmissions, or any written or digital information.

    Please do not hesitate to contact me if I can be of father assistance.



    Virginia Commonwealth University
    John A. Venuti
    Chief of Police
    938 West Grace Street
    Richmond, VA 23284
    (804) 828-1210
    http://www.vcu.edu/police/
    Last edited by peter nap; 06-28-2011 at 11:23 AM.

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    Cool

    1) time to carry the voice recorder when smoking.

    2) they'll cover for each other to no end.

    3) there are always radio transmissions, they don't respond to situations by any other means.

    4) the security people are generally nice and are in a tough situation.

    5) The Police in years past liked to bully, reported on one incident but went nowhere. Do not know the current crop of officers.

    6) The medical/nursing staff are dependent on the Security/Police to protect them so might not find much support for issues against them.

    7) Would not go anywhere else if I had a severe illness/injury.

  19. #19
    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    It would seem to me that the problem is finding someone who is willing to make a policy decision. If you can find such a mythical person, I wonder if they would be willing or able to read through the GMU decision and put 2 and 2 together.

    Of course, people at all levels seem to like to be told what to do... so perhaps an AG opinion would be better...

    TFred

  20. #20
    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TraumaRN View Post
    1) time to carry the voice recorder when smoking.

    2) they'll cover for each other to no end.

    3) there are always radio transmissions, they don't respond to situations by any other means.

    4) the security people are generally nice and are in a tough situation.

    5) The Police in years past liked to bully, reported on one incident but went nowhere. Do not know the current crop of officers.

    6) The medical/nursing staff are dependent on the Security/Police to protect them so might not find much support for issues against them.

    7) Would not go anywhere else if I had a severe illness/injury.
    Agree with all of the above.

    They even have a sense of humor. The last time I was there they had all kinds of pins stuck in my bones to outside braces. They'd pull and jiggle them after telling me I'd feel a little pinch.

    One Indian Doctor I called Stoneface, came in and walked over.
    I said "I know, I'll feel a little pinch".
    He said in broken english "Oh no, it's gonna hurt like hell"...then grinned from ear to ear.

  21. #21
    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post
    Agree with all of the above.

    They even have a sense of humor. The last time I was there they had all kinds of pins stuck in my bones to outside braces. They'd pull and jiggle them after telling me I'd feel a little pinch.

    One Indian Doctor I called Stoneface, came in and walked over.
    I said "I know, I'll feel a little pinch".
    He said in broken english "Oh no, it's gonna hurt like hell"...then grinned from ear to ear.
    Ah, yes! A graduate of The Robert S. MacNamara School of Medicine and International Diplomacy.*

    stay safe.









































    *school motto: "When you have them by the short and curlies, their hearts and minds are sure to follow."
    Last edited by skidmark; 06-28-2011 at 01:27 PM.

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    agreed

    Quote Originally Posted by ixtow View Post
    This Ferry Tale jargon has gone too far... Knight, my posterior orifice.
    ++1

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