After Chevy's Walmart adventure!

Ok so after a good meal with great folks I just had my first misadventure with "the paint guy" at walmart on Reagan dr in Lake STL.

I have open carried in this store at least 20 times, perhaps a lot more so I had no reason to have the video rolling and there was not a good opportunity to engage it without it being noticeable. Since Doc has indeed been told not to film in walmart I thought it best not to make it obvious. I needed a 3 gallon bucket for an ice bucket, five gallons are too big so I look in lawn n garden and spot none.

The last one we got was kind of a POS so I thought perhaps paint might have a bit more durable and who cares if it is 3 bucks instead of 2 or whatever, I just wanted it to work.

I see some 5 gallons so I head down that isle, nope, none smaller so I head on to the end and scope the end caps to see, nope, head up the next isle and get to the end and here is the "paint guy" (he was sealing and labeling a can of paint when I went down the first isle) and I asked him "could you tell me where I might find a 3 gallon bucket?" and here is where the fun begins, it of course starts off with "I have my ccw but...."

He asked me if he could talk to me a second, I said sure, he tells me he is a ccw I said that's good.

Him-Concealed carry is legal but open carry is not in Lake St Louis.

me- no, it is indeed legal here.

him "no,it is not legal here, we had a guy in here a couple of weeks ago and one of the managers asked him if he was a cop and he said yes and the manager asked him why he was not displaying his badge and the cop said he did not have to and the manager asked him to cover it or leave and he refused to do either so they called the police"

Me- well that settled it right there, the gun was no longer the issue (should have seen the look on his face) when you are told to leave someone's property you must leave or you are breaking the law, it does not matter if you have a firearm or not, you can not stay where you are not welcome"

him- well that's right, you say it is legal here? because everyone here says it is not legal at all

Me- well that is where it gets fuzzy, you can if you have your ccw as the ordinance that makes it illegal specifically exempts ccw holders from the law just like it does cops, usually it is something like sub section "d" that does it.

him-walmart does not have rules about it they had a sign here once and a fellow made a big fus about it and corporate made the managers take it down and told everyone walmart follows the law, nothing extra.

Me- Yes, walmart has been real clear on that which is why I was unconcerned about it, I have carried in here at least 20 times in the past few months, pretty much every weekend and have never heard a word and I know it is completely legal.

Him- are you completely sure about that? I mean I am not complaining I am saying it for your sake.

me-(at this point the hook was set, time to reel him in) Sure I am sure, our group of advocates are very specific in our research and we never violate the law or stay where we are not welcome, I can show you in the ordinances where it specifically says so.

Him- Really?

Me- sure, you just have to love these new fangled phones that let you carry the internet in your pocket! a few flicks of the finger (It ain't "d" for Lake STL I did forget that) and a few magnifications of sullivan and whammo, I have a true convert!

I did point our my Doc designed shirt and said with a grin "I ain't sure it would help much if I covered it up now would it" which did get a grin but not a full laugh.

There was more to the conversation but it was post event and he had backed off 100% and even converted from the teacher to the student without a lot of prodding required. I think he really believed it could be an issue and was genuine in his just wanting to warn me about lake stl laws.

I fired up the camera and spent about 45 more minutes shopping, I was a little concerned a manager might be on the prowl or a lstl popo might come try and educate me further but it was a non-event after that.

I wish that is how my WalMart encounter would have gone...

I think we all wish your Wal-Mart encounter had went like that.

Unfortunately, as we've all discovered, there's something in the water in Maplewood that causes overreaction.

"HE WAS STANDING IN LINE NEXT TO A CHILD!" AAAAAAH!

Then I mention something about attending coffee crawl.....

And get an article in the local rag about it.

Then the city council goes off the deep end.

Overreact much?

Mentalities like that are the direct decendants of peasants who screamed "BURN THE WITCH!".

At least LMTD seemed to get a chance to explain the lay of the land to Lake St. Louis folk.

Superlite27 said:

At least LMTD seemed to get a chance to explain the lay of the land to Lake St. Louis folk.

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Might be an age issue, we have talked about that one before. His approach was "fatherly" so to speak, he was very polite and I suppose I could have interpreted it as condescending however I will say his tone and voice inflection was more like one delivering an apology than one of someone ordering another around. I would estimate his age somewhere around 15 years older than me, so yea it was a REAL OLD GUY lol.

At first I was heading to annoyed but when I saw the chance to educate him in contrast to a confrontation, I felt if I went a little soft on it I might be able to lead him to viewing the actual law, it worked this time, might not another and I thing age and approach helped that along. If I were in my 20's like Brett, he might well have taken a "boy, you cant do that in here!" approach from the beginning, or in my 20's there is a real possibility I would have been rude and told him "its legal old fart, leave me alone" which would have lead to a bad situation for all involved despite the legality of what I was doing.

I do know I was ready for the next level and if they were going to toss me, they were going to toss an extremely polite citizen who just did not understand why and instead of telling them (the cops if called) I was going to do nothing but ask questions aka when they asked for ID I would have asked them why they were singling me out and why they were not asking for the paint guys as well since I had no more broken the law than him bla bla bla.

Edit: I would have questioned while pulling the ID out of the wallet and would have held it close to my body, I also may have questioned whether they were asking for it or demanding it to define the line in the sand, I have thought a lot on that one and as opposed to "refusal" as they claimed with Brett, forcing them to clarify and confirm they are legally entitled under RAS to demand it makes sense to me.

LMTD said:

I do know I was ready for the next level and if they were going to toss me, they were going to toss an extremely polite citizen who just did not understand why and instead of telling them (the cops if called) I was going to do nothing but ask questions aka when they asked for ID I would have asked them why they were singling me out and why they were not asking for the paint guys as well since I had no more broken the law than him bla bla bla.

Edit: I would have questioned while pulling the ID out of the wallet and would have held it close to my body, I also may have questioned whether they were asking for it or demanding it to define the line in the sand, I have thought a lot on that one and as opposed to "refusal" as they claimed with Brett, forcing them to clarify and confirm they are legally entitled under RAS to demand it makes sense to me.

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But that is what I did. When they asked for the ID, as I was getting it out, I asked if I had done anything wrong and he ignored me. Then I asked "I have to give you my ID?" I had the ID in my hand at that time. That is right when I was able to get the recording going. Then he told me to stand up and arrested me. I had my ID in my hand the whole time and when they opened the police car door, I had it right there in my hand, despite being handcuffed, and handed it to them. Oh course, they said on TV, I refused.

It is nearly identical to the infamous video in St. George. When he asked for my ID, I was getting it out when I simply questioned him if I had done anything wrong. Not giving ID was something I was questioned about by the local and national news stations. I dispelled the question by stating I was getting it out when I just asked why he needed it. It seemed to make that part go away. So yeah, get it out, but don't give it up right away. It makes it much easier to show you were compliant, but you just want to know why the cop wanted it. Most people will understand.

I did it again on the traffic stop for being parked just a few weeks ago, but I never ended up giving it to them because they could not give me a legal reason I was required to give it to them. I even added in, "I will give you my ID, if you are legally demanding it." Thankfully they didn't, but thinking about it now, I should have added in something about reasonable articulate suspicion as a lot of cops are going to say, "yeah, I'm demanding it" without thought.

IMO, the police are simply not trained well enough when it comes to this as they all (ok, not all, but a majority) think they have the legal right to get ID from anyone at anytime.

I'm very glad to read it went well,hell, better then wall to be honest! Well done,sir!

Lancer's: did you ever get your gun back from Maplewood???? If not whats going on with it and what have they told you?

jad316 said:

Lancer's: did you ever get your gun back from Maplewood???? If not whats going on with it and what have they told you?

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No I did not. They have not told me anything. I obviously can't say too much, but we just have to wait at this point.

Lancers, Talk to your councilman about getting your gun back. I went through a similiar incident once and he got mine back.