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Thread: 9 Articles - 10 years later

  1. #1
    Regular Member eastmeyers's Avatar
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    9 Articles - 10 years later

    http://topics.mlive.com/tag/conceale...uns/index.html

    Ten years after Shall issue passes.
    "Bam, I like saying bam when I cite something, in fact I think I shall do this from here on out, as long as I remember.
    Bam!" - eastmeyers

    "Then said he to them, But now he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his sack: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one."
    Luke 22:36
    God Bless

  2. #2
    Regular Member eastmeyers's Avatar
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    What is funny, is before these "articles" came out, they had an article describing, that they were doing this series. In that article, they claimed it would not be bias in anyway. It would be fair.







    http://www.mlive.com/news/index.ssf/...un_law_10.html
    Last edited by eastmeyers; 06-27-2011 at 11:06 AM.
    "Bam, I like saying bam when I cite something, in fact I think I shall do this from here on out, as long as I remember.
    Bam!" - eastmeyers

    "Then said he to them, But now he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his sack: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one."
    Luke 22:36
    God Bless

  3. #3
    Regular Member Bikenut's Avatar
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    Here comes a rant.....

    I don't see anything unexpected here... but then I've been seeing a larger picture for quite some time...

    Consider....

    In order to disarm America all that is necessary is to get people to think that a permit is needed to carry a pistol. And to help make that happen all that is necessary is to bury the actual right under super restrictive laws concerning where, when, why, and who, can carry a gun without having a permit.... but making where, when, why, and who, much easier as long as a person has a permit.

    And that has largely been successful so far since very few people know that openly carrying a sidearm without any kind of permit to do so is not only currently legal in Michigan but has been legal since 1827! But there are already many restrictive laws concerning who, when, and where, a person can openly carry.... but having a concealed carry permit makes all that much easier.

    And this stealth process has been successful since many people have come to think that having a concealed carry permit actually is having the right to bear arms.

    So.... once folks think that a permit is required all that is necessary is to attack the permit system and show that it is flawed... and, by extension, the permits and the people who have them are also flawed.

    Once it can be shown that the process, the system, of issuing permits is flawed then it becomes obvious that different and more strict controls are necessary.

    Thus begins the process of making it so difficult to qualify for, or to be able to afford, a permit only the very elite will be able to satisfy the requirements, the qualifications, and the price tag to get a permit.

    And that will be the end of Joe and Jane Average being able to "bear arms".

    And who best but the media to push this agenda of pricing/restricting the average person out of having a permit... and thereby stopping the average person from carrying a gun?
    Gun control isn't about the gun at all.... for those who want gun control it is all about their own fragile egos, their own lack of self esteem, their own inner fears, and most importantly... their own desire to dominate others. And an openly carried gun is a slap in the face to all of those things.

  4. #4
    Activist Member hamaneggs's Avatar
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    Thumbs up

    Quote Originally Posted by Bikenut View Post
    Here comes a rant.....

    I don't see anything unexpected here... but then I've been seeing a larger picture for quite some time...

    Consider....

    In order to disarm America all that is necessary is to get people to think that a permit is needed to carry a pistol. And to help make that happen all that is necessary is to bury the actual right under super restrictive laws concerning where, when, why, and who, can carry a gun without having a permit.... but making where, when, why, and who, much easier as long as a person has a permit.

    And that has largely been successful so far since very few people know that openly carrying a sidearm without any kind of permit to do so is not only currently legal in Michigan but has been legal since 1827! But there are already many restrictive laws concerning who, when, and where, a person can openly carry.... but having a concealed carry permit makes all that much easier.

    And this stealth process has been successful since many people have come to think that having a concealed carry permit actually is having the right to bear arms.

    So.... once folks think that a permit is required all that is necessary is to attack the permit system and show that it is flawed... and, by extension, the permits and the people who have them are also flawed.

    Once it can be shown that the process, the system, of issuing permits is flawed then it becomes obvious that different and more strict controls are necessary.

    Thus begins the process of making it so difficult to qualify for, or to be able to afford, a permit only the very elite will be able to satisfy the requirements, the qualifications, and the price tag to get a permit.

    And that will be the end of Joe and Jane Average being able to "bear arms".

    And who best but the media to push this agenda of pricing/restricting the average person out of having a permit... and thereby stopping the average person from carrying a gun?
    Thats why the lib media use Goebbels strategy(lie often enough that it becomes truth)! Thats why we continue our fight to educate our fellow citizens of their rights and THE TRUTH! CARRY ON!
    Today JESUS would tell me to sell my coat and buy two Springfield XD Compact 45acp's!

    NRA LIFER,GOA,MOC Inc.,CLSD,MCRGO,UAW! MOLON LABE!!

  5. #5
    Michigan Moderator DrTodd's Avatar
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    One of the things the authors of this series seem to be saying is that the data required by law is not being sent to the state. If that is truly a problem, then it has absolutely nothing to do with those who have a permit, rather with the prosecutors of the various counties.
    Also, they seem to be concerned that names of people convicted of certain crimes are not being passed on to the state... big deal. So a person sitting in prison hasn't had their permit revoked... it's not like they have a pistol in their cell and besides, they did acknowledge that they often don't revoke the permit until the person is released when they are putting conditions on their parole or probation... once again, not a big deal. I also noticed that two different articles lamented the little amount of money from the permit fee each county gets does not cover the counties costs. This is easily fixed, let everyone carry openly or concealed everywhere without any permit requirement, then the counties wouldn't need to worry about covering their costs.
    Giving up our liberties for safety is the one sure way to let the violent among us win.

    "Though defensive violence will always be a 'sad necessity' in the eyes of men of principle, it would be still more unfortunate if wrongdoers should dominate just men." -Saint Augustine

    Disclaimer I am not a lawyer! Please do not consider anything you read from me to be legal advice.

  6. #6
    Regular Member onestar 50's Avatar
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    There was a law on the books that made open carry legal in Mich. but They took it off and replaced it with hunting law that once my senator to me long ago.

  7. #7
    Regular Member autosurgeon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by onestar 50 View Post
    There was a law on the books that made open carry legal in Mich. but They took it off and replaced it with hunting law that once my senator to me long ago.
    What law? The only Law that has ever been on the books in regards to OC is Article 1 Section 6
    Anything I post may be my opinion and not the law... you are responsible to do your own verification.

    Blackstone (1753-1765) maintains that "the law holds that it is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."

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    Regular Member onestar 50's Avatar
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    That may be the law But I know it was on the book at one time and when I called my senator and asked him about open carried before Michigan changes their ccw law. He said they took it off and replace it with a hunting law.

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    Onestar 50
    There was a law on the books that made open carry legal in Mich. but They took it off and replaced it with hunting law that once my senator to me long ago.

    Could you please Cite where the regs are at, or where we can find that old MCL as i would like to see it, as it might be good to get back on the Books again !

  10. #10
    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter Venator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by onestar 50 View Post
    That may be the law But I know it was on the book at one time and when I called my senator and asked him about open carried before Michigan changes their ccw law. He said they took it off and replace it with a hunting law.
    Pure misinformation.

    If I had a dollar for every wrong question I received fro a government Representative or Senator, I would have....well I would have a lot of dollars.
    An Amazon best seller "MY PARENTS OPEN CARRY" http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/

    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

  11. #11
    Regular Member onestar 50's Avatar
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    I wrote my senator last night and waiting for an answer from him.
    Last edited by onestar 50; 06-28-2011 at 04:49 PM.

  12. #12
    Regular Member Bikenut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mastiff69 View Post
    Onestar 50
    There was a law on the books that made open carry legal in Mich. but They took it off and replaced it with hunting law that once my senator to me long ago.

    Could you please Cite where the regs are at, or where we can find that old MCL as i would like to see it, as it might be good to get back on the Books again !
    No.. no .. no ... no... absolutely NO! it would not be good to get any law that states OC is legal..... Please allow me to explain....

    Laws do NOT tell us what is legal... it tells us what the penalties are for doing something the law says is illegal.

    We already have the gun control inspired very worst sort of infringement on the right to bear arms possible... called a CC permit.... that makes it illegal to carry a concealed gun unless a person meets the criteria, requirements, and can afford.... the permission from the government called a CC permit.

    We don't need to give legislators the chance, or even the idea, to create a permit system for OC too!!!

    The absence of any law that says OC is illegal IS what makes OC legal. In short.... if there isn't any law that says a thing is illegal ... then by default... it is legal. There is no need to have a law to make it legal... it already is.

    While some folks might "feel" better if they had a law that says when, where, who, and how OC would be legal because the law gives them permission like we have with that horrible infringement called a CC permit... the very fact that there would be a law that restricts OC means the right to bear arms just got infringed and went out the window in favor of a law that every son of a gun for miles around would want to be in on deciding the who, when, where, why,.....

    And y'all better believe that any law would NOT come out the way we would want it but would be loaded with ways for the government to control OC.
    Gun control isn't about the gun at all.... for those who want gun control it is all about their own fragile egos, their own lack of self esteem, their own inner fears, and most importantly... their own desire to dominate others. And an openly carried gun is a slap in the face to all of those things.

  13. #13
    Regular Member autosurgeon's Avatar
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    I agree with Bikenut!!!!!!!! We don't need no stinkin law!!!
    Anything I post may be my opinion and not the law... you are responsible to do your own verification.

    Blackstone (1753-1765) maintains that "the law holds that it is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."

  14. #14
    Regular Member PDinDetroit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by autosurgeon View Post
    I agree with Bikenut!!!!!!!! We don't need no stinkin law!!!
    I believe that we already have this law other than Article I Section 6 of the MI Constitution.

    Quote Originally Posted by MCL 28.422
    28.422 License to purchase, carry, possess, or transport pistol; issuance; qualifications; applications; sale of pistol; exemptions; nonresidents; basic pistol safety brochure; forging application; implementation during business hours.

    Sec. 2.

    (1) Except as otherwise provided in this section, a person shall not purchase, carry, possess, or transport a pistol in this state without first having obtained a license for the pistol as prescribed in this section.
    ...
    http://legislature.mi.gov/doc.aspx?mcl-28-422

  15. #15
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    MCL 28.422 and 750.234d are the open carry laws in MI.

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    Regular Member Bronson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CoonDog View Post
    MCL 28.422 and 750.234d are the open carry laws in MI.
    That's the way I see it. In the same way that 28.425b and 28.425o detail a licensing scheme and list of places where licensees may not concealed carry, respectively, so too do 28.422 and 750.234d function for open carry.

    This is why I was confused when Judge Aquilina stated that concealed carry was different because there was legislation that regulated CC while there wasn't similar regulating legislation for OC.

    Bronson
    Those who expect to reap the benefits of freedom, must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it. Thomas Paine

  17. #17
    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter Venator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by onestar 50 View Post
    I wrote my senator last night and waiting for an answer from him.
    I just wrote that almost all of them are wrong and you want to write one to get what a "right" answer?

    Who is your senator, I may know him/her? Never mind it's Richardville. Good luck.
    Last edited by Venator; 06-29-2011 at 12:13 PM.
    An Amazon best seller "MY PARENTS OPEN CARRY" http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/

    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

  18. #18
    Regular Member PDinDetroit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bronson View Post
    That's the way I see it. In the same way that 28.425b and 28.425o detail a licensing scheme and list of places where licensees may not concealed carry, respectively, so too do 28.422 and 750.234d function for open carry.

    This is why I was confused when Judge Aquilina stated that concealed carry was different because there was legislation that regulated CC while there wasn't similar regulating legislation for OC.

    Bronson
    I believe Judge Aquilina to be confused on multiple points. More will be revealed come appeal time...

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrTodd View Post
    " If that is truly a problem, then it has absolutely nothing to do with those who have a permit, rather with the prosecutors of the various counties."
    .
    The 'journalists' appear to have missed the most basic element of their investigation: our government officials are incompetent! No quotes from the 'offending' county gun boards, no investigation into why they didn't send in the 'state mandated' reports and who, by name, is responsible. There was, however, a story about an older woman scaring off an attacker by exposing her firearm. They did quote an 'expert' who claimed that there are no more than 100,000 annual instances of a gun being used to deter a crime, and not going reported Hmmmm, that's 274 times PER DAY, or once every 6 MINUTES! Other groups maintain that the number is significantly higher. Why anyone would remove this ability for citizens to defend themselves every 6 minutes is beyond me.

    Carry on

  20. #20
    Regular Member xmanhockey7's Avatar
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    Reading my signature at the bottom tells you exactly what I think about having to get a permit.
    "No state shall convert a liberty to a privilege, license it, and charge a fee therefor.- Murdock vs Pennsylvania 319 US 105

    ...If the state converts a right into a privelege, the citizen can ignore the license and fee and engage in the right... with impunity.
    - Shuttleworth vs City of Birmingham, Alabama 317 US 262

    Where rights secured by the Constitution are involved, there can be no legislation which would abrogate them.
    - Miranda vs Arizona 384 US 436

  21. #21
    Regular Member eastmeyers's Avatar
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    Who is "thebusguy"?
    "Bam, I like saying bam when I cite something, in fact I think I shall do this from here on out, as long as I remember.
    Bam!" - eastmeyers

    "Then said he to them, But now he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his sack: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one."
    Luke 22:36
    God Bless

  22. #22
    Regular Member autosurgeon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eastmeyers View Post
    Who is "thebusguy"?
    You know those buses with a jacuzzi in the back.......
    Anything I post may be my opinion and not the law... you are responsible to do your own verification.

    Blackstone (1753-1765) maintains that "the law holds that it is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."

  23. #23
    Regular Member eastmeyers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by autosurgeon View Post
    You know those buses with a jacuzzi in the back.......
    Got it.
    "Bam, I like saying bam when I cite something, in fact I think I shall do this from here on out, as long as I remember.
    Bam!" - eastmeyers

    "Then said he to them, But now he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his sack: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one."
    Luke 22:36
    God Bless

  24. #24
    Regular Member PDinDetroit's Avatar
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    Complete index of all the articles:

    http://topics.mlive.com/tag/conceale...uns/index.html

  25. #25
    Regular Member eastmeyers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PDinDetroit View Post
    Complete index of all the articles:

    http://topics.mlive.com/tag/conceale...uns/index.html
    Hey pal, that is the same link as the one in the first post. Sheeshe, get with the times old man.


    Quote Originally Posted by eastmeyers View Post
    http://topics.mlive.com/tag/conceale...uns/index.html

    Ten years after Shall issue passes.
    "Bam, I like saying bam when I cite something, in fact I think I shall do this from here on out, as long as I remember.
    Bam!" - eastmeyers

    "Then said he to them, But now he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his sack: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one."
    Luke 22:36
    God Bless

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