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Thread: My first OC and CCW Questions

  1. #1
    Regular Member rb0217700's Avatar
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    My first OC and CCW Questions

    So I have OC'd for my first time, no incidents and everyone seemed comfortable with it. Went into Casey's in St. James and Papa Johns in Rolla.
    I am interested in taking a CCW class. Because sometimes I would like to carry without anyone knowing I am armed. Any suggestions on that? Should I get an out-of-state CCW? I have had a few ideas given to me just need some help making the right choice.

    Thanks for the info and help!
    Last edited by rb0217700; 06-28-2011 at 11:58 AM.

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    Regular Member cshoff's Avatar
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    Welcome to OCDO.

    There is nothing at all wrong with carrying on a non-resident permit in Missouri. We recognize them all. However, there are, IMO, several very valid reasons to obtain the Missouri endorsement if you live in Missouri.

    A few reasons to get the MO permit:

    1) A non-resident permit does NOT exempt you from Federal Laws that prohibit firearms in "school zones". In order to enjoy the exemption to that law, you must possess a valid permit from the state in which the "school zone" is located. So if you possess a FL permit for example, then you are good to go in "school zones" located in FL, but it does NOT provide an exemption here in MO. Without the MO permit, you cannot carry your firearm within 1,000 feet "from the grounds of a public, parochial or private school" in this state (does not apply on private property which is not part of the school grounds).

    2) The MO permit is accepted in more states than any other permit is; 38 to be exact. And a number of states will only recognize your CCW permit if it is issued by your home state of residence (In Florida, for example, a MO resident would either have to possess a valid MO permit, or a valid FL permit - they would not recognize a UT permit carried by a MO resident).

    3) If you are going to primarily carry in Missouri, it does make some sense to take a class that teaches the relevant portions of Missouri law that regulate firearms and the use of force/deadly force, in this state. It is YOUR responsibility to be familiar with our laws. If you are not, you may end up charged with a crime because of nothing more than a small mistake or oversight on your part.

    4) By having a MO permit, you let your legislators in Jefferson City know that you have a vested interest in our gun laws, and that you are part of a growing and powerful voting bloc that will make your voice heard. Simply having a MO permit helps to influence legislation that is introduced and passed in our legislature.

    Just some things to think about.

  3. #3
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    What the hoff said!


    I HIGHLY recommend the Missouri permit because of his #1, not often used, more of an adder to other crimes, but clearly a violation and a federal charge is no BS and it is expensive as all get out.

    Might want to consider cshoff's company as well for your class, good reputation for being very thorough under the guidelines and known to go above and beyond those guidelines to educate the student. I speak from reputation only as I have yet to be able to schedule an advanced pistol class with them but fully intend upon doing so in the very near future.
    John C. Eastman Associate Dean of Chapman University’s School of Law "the Second Amendment, like its sister amendments, does not confer a right but rather recognizes a natural right inherent in our humanity."

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    Regular Member rb0217700's Avatar
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    Thank you sirs, I think it would be best to take the MO one then. I shall start my search! Thanks again for the info.

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    Regular Member cshoff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rb0217700 View Post
    Thank you sirs, I think it would be best to take the MO one then. I shall start my search! Thanks again for the info.
    I'm about 45 minutes from Rolla. Let me know if you'd be interested in coming up and taking my class. I've got CCW classes scheduled for every weekend in August.

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    Regular Member M-Taliesin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rb0217700 View Post
    Thank you sirs, I think it would be best to take the MO one then. I shall start my search! Thanks again for the info.
    Howdy Amigo!
    One more thing. Whether you get a MO permit or one from another state, any other state, stay the heck out of Illinois!!!! They don't respect anybody's 2nd Amendment rights.

    Blessings,
    M-Taliesin

  7. #7
    Regular Member rb0217700's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cshoff View Post
    I'm about 45 minutes from Rolla. Let me know if you'd be interested in coming up and taking my class. I've got CCW classes scheduled for every weekend in August.

    I appreciate it and your operation looks top notch, but there is one here in St. James on July 9 for $50. With gas the way it is and I drive a tank it is all I can afford. But I did see your upper level classes and am interested in those after Im done with the CCW.
    Last edited by rb0217700; 07-04-2011 at 01:20 PM.

  8. #8
    Regular Member cshoff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rb0217700 View Post
    I appreciate it and your operation looks top notch, but there is one here in St. James on July 9 for $50. With gas the way it is and I drive a tank it is all I can afford. But I did see your upper level classes and am interested in those after Im done with the CCW.
    I completely understand. Just make sure you know what you are getting for your money. Most classes that only cost $50.00 will require YOU to supply your own firearms and ammunition (140 rounds of centerfire ammunition will cost you an additional $50 right off the bat), or they will require you to pay additional "rental" fees for the use of their firearms and buy their ammo. We supply everything for our price. Also, regardless who you end up taking your class with, make certain that it complies with the new training requirements that were passed in HB294 that will almost certainly become law on August 28. If not, it could cause you some grief (and more money) sometime down the road should you neglect to apply for your permit by August 28, of should you every forget or neglect to renew on time.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cshoff View Post
    Also, regardless who you end up taking your class with, make certain that it complies with the new training requirements that were passed in HB294 that will almost certainly become law on August 28. If not, it could cause you some grief (and more money) sometime down the road should you neglect to apply for your permit by August 28, of should you every forget or neglect to renew on time.
    Uhm, well yeah! and even if Nixon takes the "I do not want to sign but know I can not veto" approach it is automatic without it in what, 8 more days so getting the training done VERY soon and getting the cert to the sheriff is important if you do not wish to pay the extra bucks.

    Adding on to what the hoff (no really this is THE HOFF, not the drunk tv guy lol) said, You need to ask them for past student refrences you can TALK TO. Do not forget the extremely dangerous weapon handling a CCW instructor added to his class that is questionable even for an advanced class and the instructor did it with a newbie who indeed shot and killed himself attempting tne manuver.

    My point, if an instructor does not have the phone number of a student you can call and ask questions, to me that is a red flag. You are paying for a VERY basic safety training class and a legal responsibilities letter of the law explaination, anything more on the legal side is questionable and having a very low teacher student ratio on the pistol safety portion is a GOOD thing.

    I would suggest you hit missouricarry and chatterbug about training, someone may know about the instructor you are considering. It really is NOT just about getting the piece of paper, it is all about the training and the law only OUTLINES the training, it is not dictated. Someone reading this has the worst doctor, don't walmart yourself is the final advice.
    John C. Eastman Associate Dean of Chapman University’s School of Law "the Second Amendment, like its sister amendments, does not confer a right but rather recognizes a natural right inherent in our humanity."

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    Regular Member rb0217700's Avatar
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    Got it done today, $50 class, $40(50rds .40 and 50rds .38spc) for the ammo and since Missouri only requires 20rds for each gun I didnt have to use the whole boxes. So I had soem extra to help with personal training. Class only had six of us so I got a bit of 1 on 1 and learned a few tricks with my Glock, the instructor (former St. James Police LT) and showed me a quicker way to fire, I took 5 shots and put 2 rounds right on top of each other with his technique! Still gotta wait on the Sheriff and all that but still happy to finally get it!

    If your in and around St. James and want to check it out here is the site http://paladintacticalgroup.com/Home.php
    Last edited by rb0217700; 07-09-2011 at 05:45 PM.

  11. #11
    Regular Member cshoff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rb0217700 View Post
    Got it done today, $50 class, $40(50rds .40 and 50rds .38spc) for the ammo and since Missouri only requires 20rds for each gun I didnt have to use the whole boxes. So I had soem extra to help with personal training. Class only had six of us so I got a bit of 1 on 1 and learned a few tricks with my Glock, the instructor (former St. James Police LT) and showed me a quicker way to fire, I took 5 shots and put 2 rounds right on top of each other with his technique! Still gotta wait on the Sheriff and all that but still happy to finally get it!

    If your in and around St. James and want to check it out here is the site http://paladintacticalgroup.com/Home.php
    Missouri statute currently requires each applicant to fire 70 rounds total. Effective August 28, it will increase to 140 total rounds. If your instructor only had you fire a total of 40 rounds, his instruction is NOT compliant with the Missouri training requirements ( RSMO 571.111.2.(9) and (10) ).

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    Regular Member mspgunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cshoff View Post
    Missouri statute currently requires each applicant to fire 70 rounds total. Effective August 28, it will increase to 140 total rounds. If your instructor only had you fire a total of 40 rounds, his instruction is NOT compliant with the Missouri training requirements ( RSMO 571.111.2.(9) and (10) ).
    If he gets his permit before Aug. 28th isn't he still good?
    If you pull it, you use it. If you pull it and you don't use it, you've done some thing wrong and you might not get another chance. Think about it before you pack it!
    I worked 24/7 for 2A OC rights! Don't like what I did? Try it yourself, it was my full time job!
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  13. #13
    Regular Member rb0217700's Avatar
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    He had us fire 30 rds of each weapon, then we took the one we were going to be carrying and fired as much as we wanted with the kind of 1 on 1 thing. So we fired well over 70, but from what documentation we had for the class it states

    A live fire “exercise” for each applicant to fire a handgun “from the standing position or its equivalent”. This would appear to allow persons who cannot safely stand for extended periods to shoot from a sitting position. Applicants must shoot fifty (50) rounds, of any caliber, from any handgun, at a B-27 silhouette target “or an equivalent target”. The target must be seven (7) yards away during this exercise. This is different from the live fire “test” at #10 below.*
    A live fire “test”, with the certified instructor, present of twenty (20) rounds from a standing position or its equivalent at a B-27 silhouette or equivalent target at a range of seven yards. The applicant must hit the silhouette portion with fifteen (15) of the twenty rounds. This is another indication of a difference between certified instructors and range officers.

    I added the line above so it is 70!
    Last edited by rb0217700; 07-09-2011 at 10:16 PM. Reason: updated info from instructors provided

  14. #14
    Regular Member cshoff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mspgunner View Post
    If he gets his permit before Aug. 28th isn't he still good?
    If a person only fired a total of 40 rounds, then it would never have been compliant. Our statutory requirements have always called for a total (minimum) of 70 rounds be fired; 50 during the live-fire exercise, and an additional 20 during the live-fire test. Of course, as I pointed out above, that statutory requirement will soon be 100 during the live-fire exercise, and an additional 40 during the live-fire test.
    Last edited by cshoff; 07-09-2011 at 11:35 PM.

  15. #15
    Regular Member rb0217700's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mspgunner View Post
    If he gets his permit before Aug. 28th isn't he still good?
    I contacted the Phelps County Sheriff and he confirmed that since I completed the course before the new Law is in effect I am "grandfathered in" regardless of the new requirements.

  16. #16
    Regular Member cshoff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rb0217700 View Post
    I contacted the Phelps County Sheriff and he confirmed that since I completed the course before the new Law is in effect I am "grandfathered in" regardless of the new requirements.
    Just keep in mind that that will only be applicable if you apply before August 28. If you wait and apply after Aug. 28, you will have to have training that complies with the new requirements. In a nutshell, you must comply with the training requirements that are in effect on the day you apply, NOT on the day that you completed the course.

  17. #17
    Regular Member rb0217700's Avatar
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    For sure, I was going to wait a few months but now im in a rush with that coming into effect. Luckily wife got a bonus this time around so I should be able to get it done.

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    Good to see you got the CCW process started! We should have an OC meetup soon...

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