The Current State of ALOC & My Role In It

Two things:

1. Good leaders don't "do more." They motivate others.

2. If you think that organizations "tell you what to do," that is part of the problem. In a true grassroots organization, the membership (as a whole) tells the leadership what to do, not vice versa.

Bigdawg

We have to do something to keep us moving forward..Every good cause has its bad times but the good ones pick it up and move forward..The first step would be to find out what DI thinks about OUR website and ALL of us using it to get back to our movement..We need all the people we had no matter what that they small problems they have between themselves..Where we can call out leadership when we think there is a problem and not worry about small bull crap..

FTW

Packin' said:

Guys and gals! I don't know what happened, but I hate to see it aired out for the world to read... We really want our freedom.

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I think that this airing is a necessary step forward, and that it can't happen in the ALOC forums where posts are deleted without discussion and people's accounts are cancelled without discussion or recourse. There is nowhere else where this work can be done but here. And it is work!

I'm all about your comment on freedom, Packin', and the whole national and historical context of OC is vital to keep in mind. Americans historically do not like to be told what they can't do. The British Crown told the colonists that they could not expand westward of the Ohio River, that they had to quarter English troops in their homes, etc. You KNOW how that turned out, and the operative characteristics are still resident in our culture and national persona. The whole concept of the rugged individual springs from that, and any number of American icons (John Wayne, Charlton Heston,Ted Nuggent, etc.) have built careers on it. If that's true for the nation in general, how much more true for Americans who want to exercise the freedom to go to the bank with a firearm on their hip! Whatever we do from here, it simply must be in consonace with who we are as Americans, and it must have enough flexibility in it to accommodate the rugged individuals still among us. I think that failure on those two points will presage failure on all points.

If we're going to do this, we're going to need leadership that is elected by dues-paying members which may also be removed from office via a similar process. As Daylen and riverrat have indicated, our success will be enhanced by some level of formal organization. Bylaws. (Take a deep breath, John.) We're going to need some, but with conscious observance of the factors in the paragraph immediately above.

I am ready to pay reasonable dues. Dues collections means that we're going to need a bank account with officers who have access to the funds, may expend them for appropriate purposes, and are accountable to the dues paying membership for those expenditures on a regular basis. Every church in America is able to manage this on a shoestring, and we can too. We simply must want to do it enough to do it and do it well.

I think everyone has good intentions here. We are very diverse, but all have the same goals. Let's keep that in mind as we press forward. I still am pressing for a face-to-face sit-down meetup. What's the worst that can happen? After all, everyone will be armed.

I think a face-to-face meet-up is a great idea! We should set a date and try to have a framework from which to brainstorm by then. Someone on ALOC had mentioned Labor Day, I think. That works for me, how about everyone here?

Eye95, I agree with most of your "Grassroots means" post, the exception to which is that I don't feel that ALOC has reached the 'France' level yet. It may just be that I operate outside of the 'Central Government' for the most part, though.

As for your following post, where you discussed a core of people working to form the Organization, I'm with you 100%. Or rather, I hope you're still with us 100%. Whatever. The point is, we are still working toward that idea, it's just coming in fits and starts right now. I'd be happy to work alongside any of the people you named. Except for that mcdonalk (Mystic Lemur) guy. He's a douche.

Brimstone Baritone said:

I think a face-to-face meet-up is a great idea! We should set a date and try to have a framework from which to brainstorm by then. Someone on ALOC had mentioned Labor Day, I think. That works for me, how about everyone here?

Eye95, I agree with most of your "Grassroots means" post, the exception to which is that I don't feel that ALOC has reached the 'France' level yet. It may just be that I operate outside of the 'Central Government' for the most part, though.

As for your following post, where you discussed a core of people working to form the Organization, I'm with you 100%. Or rather, I hope you're still with us 100%. Whatever. The point is, we are still working toward that idea, it's just coming in fits and starts right now. I'd be happy to work alongside any of the people you named. Except for that mcdonalk (Mystic Lemur) guy. He's a douche.

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I am with the movement. I am not with "us" if "us" is ALOC. That is not my choice, but the choice of the singular person who says he "controls" it. I won't be with "us" as long as it remains controlled by one person.

I am with a face-to-face meeting, as long as it is not under the auspices of ALOC, which would put it under the control of that one man. Also, to be useful, it must happen sooner. Otherwise, we should just proceed with forming an organization independent of ALOC.

Waiting for September just seems like more of the same. The one who controls ALOC has used delaying tactics to forestall the formation of a grassroots non-profit. This would be just more delaying tactics. We have been discussing the possibility of forming a non-profit for a year now.

No more discussing whether to do it (only how). Let's just do it--either with ALOC as the genesis and an official arm of it, or totally independently. But the days of one man being able to "King George" the movement is over. The current effort is the last petition for redress.

:shrug: The September meeting was to give time to figure out the 'hows' of organizing and their idea of what the organization should look like (structure, purpose, etc.).

You know, things like what we're doing right now.

I assumed that you were piggy-backing on the idea for a face-to-face to settle differences. A sit-down in August or September to finalize the paperwork on a non-profit would be satisfactory. From personal experience, I can say that, once the details have been hammered out, the actual formation of the non-profit can happen within two weeks.

I can't speak for anyone else, but the movement transitioning from the "control" of one man to a grassroots model is, from my perspective, not a difference that can be hammered out. I won't be a part of the organized OC movement in AL as long as one person insists that he "controls" the only organization for that movement.

Since the entire original post was lost on you and you seem to have this asinine idea I am somehow in "control" of the ALOC movement. Let me try to break this down for you again in very simple, easy to understand terms.

Lets start with the original post from ALOC:

Eye95: I guess it all boils down to this, which is kind of the point behind Liberty: Authority means you can exercise power over others. It does not mean you can control them. We are, after all, autonomous individuals.

My Response: Something we actually agree on! It's clear some on this forum can't be controlled and and have no self control. BUT I CAN CONTROL MY FORUM.

I'm not sure what you don't comprehend about that. Not sure what your fetish is with this "control" word. But, yes I said I could control my FORUM. Yes for the love of God, I said that I could actually control and administer my forum that I created and pay for, and have never asked anyone for .1cent to use.

So there, I have admitted to the world my heinous crime. To imply I that I said I was in control of anything more is an outright lie or misleading at best. Please spare everyone this drama and move on.

I am dead certain that many wish it were that simple. It is, of course, not.

I don't think the use of the term "asinine" was particularly productive or conducive to a substantive discussion. Anyone disagree on that point?

Ruger .454 said:

I am dead certain that many wish it were that simple. It is, of course, not.

I don't think the use of the term "asinine" was particularly productive or conducive to a substantive discussion. Anyone disagree on that point?

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Oh, Ruger, I forgot you were there.....

as·i·nine/ˈasəˌnīn/

Adjective: Extremely stupid or foolish.

I think it fit rather well in the context of that sentence.

Dianosis, like it or not, whether it was your intent or not, your site is the OC movement in Alabama, at least currently. It is generally an excellent site, and I wish it would remain the OC movement in Alabama. However, it cannot remain such as long as one man would "control" it.

So, as I presented before, there are basically three options: (1) ALOC adopts a more grassroots model and forms an organization whose leadership derives its authority from its membership, (2) a separate organization is formed whose leadership derives its authority from its membership and ALOC becomes an arm of that organization, or (3) another organization is formed whose leadership derives its authority from its membership and ALOC has nothing to do with it, simply remaining "your forum" with you in "control."

The options are presented in the order in which they would foster unity within the AL OC movement, from most to least. Therefore, option (1) is more preferable than (2), which is more preferable than (3). Based on what you continue to say, the first two options will not be possible. That is unfortunate. However, you have no control over option (3). While it is least desirable, it is likely the one we will have to go with.

In your arrogance, Di, you inadvertently prove my point. Thanks, man.