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Thread: ammo choice

  1. #1
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    ammo choice

    Just curious as to what everyone's thoughts and choices are for hollow points. I've done some testing of my own with water jugs and old cut up pants, and so far out of the three brands I've tried the federals don't stay together, Winchester rangers were decent and the hornady critical defense didn't seem to expand very well. I thought the hornadys were sopose to be the greatest for expansion. Any one done there own experiments?

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    Regular Member ARADCOM's Avatar
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    Cool Ammo Choice, man, ther's soooo many kinds!

    I've often thought about trying to do some kind of testing when I'm out burning thru a couple of hundred rounds but have just never taken the time to do it.

    For my carry guns (9mm and 40 S&W) I went with the recommendations in this article. http://www.chuckhawks.com/ammo_by_anonymous.htm Never had to shoot anyone so I don't know if I made the right choice, and I hope I never have to find out. But based upon my research I'm confident that the Cor-Bon 9mm 115 grain +P Jacketed Hollowpoint and .40 Winchester Silvertip 155 grain Jacketed Hollowpoint will do the job if called upon. I use .40 Hornady 165gr FTX in my alternate pistol. It's about twice the weight of my primary carry and is fine to shoot with the heavier slug.

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    water is hard to test with. especially in plastic. it has to penitrate the clothing, then plastic. then impacts water which scientifically speaking is denser than we are. probably why your Federals came apart.

    personally i only shoot 2 brands.

    Federal Hydra-shock 180g

    and Speer gold dot 180g.

    that is in .40 cal

    if your a horniday fan and want more for your money check out Fiocchhi . its itallian, well made, stainless case with horniday XTP rounds loaded into it.

    stay away from anything remington green box.

    winchester bonded is junk as well.

    winchester silver tip works great but at $50 a box....your choice.

    magtech is too hollow, *if you've ever seen one you know what i mean* there is a great mushroom effect but it is a false effect because the mushroomed part is very thin, so the round doesnt actually "expand" more of just flatten out the tiny sheet metal like hollow point.

    cor bon.....works well on paper. but has the same effect as magtech. looks like good expansion but if you slice off the expanded part and weigh it vs a normal hollow points lead expansion. you will be surprised.

    Winchester Ranger is great stuff , cheap too.

    horinday critical defense.......i would say 50/50 on reliable expansion. they make great rounds but in balistics gel testing i havnt seen much from that line.


    hope this helps :-)
    i would rather run out of blood, breath and life. and die fighting. than run out of ammo , and die with my pants down -Tom Scantas

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    Federal HST
    Winchester Black Talons
    Remington Golden Sabre
    Life is tough, its tougher when your stupid.

    http://www.itsnotthelaw.com

    Feds: U.C.C. 1-308, State: U.C.C. 1-207, Both: U.C.C. 1-103.6

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    Quote Originally Posted by Butch00 View Post
    Federal HST
    Winchester Black Talons
    Remington Golden Sabre

    issue with black talons lol

    #1 they are no longer made and very hard to find + well over $60 a box when you do.
    #2 they do work beautifully but if you DO use them in self defense after all the bad press they got when they stopped producing them. any DA that sees a case where they were used will crucify you for doing so. they were called "inhumane and torturous weapons" by a federal court in the early 90's. still legal to use yes but. probably a bad idea ;-)
    i would rather run out of blood, breath and life. and die fighting. than run out of ammo , and die with my pants down -Tom Scantas

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    Regular Member ep0k's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by carry for myself View Post
    issue with black talons lol

    #1 they are no longer made and very hard to find + well over $60 a box when you do.
    #2 they do work beautifully but if you DO use them in self defense after all the bad press they got when they stopped producing them. any DA that sees a case where they were used will crucify you for doing so. they were called "inhumane and torturous weapons" by a federal court in the early 90's. still legal to use yes but. probably a bad idea ;-)
    That would be why I carry Hornady 230gr LE hollowpoints in my .45. Would, hypothetically, be much easier to make the case that force was proportional (rather than excessive) in the event of a self-defense shooting. Also less likely to overpenetrate and cause collateral damage.
    v/r
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    Webmaster, Maine Open Carry Association
    forrest@maineopencarry.org

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    I found a guy on you tube (tnoutdoors- or just search ammo test through Denim,If link does not work )that has done several test with hollow points through Denim, I found it very helpful.... Maybe you will also....
    I will try to attach a link http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iD6Re...feature=relmfu

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    Quote Originally Posted by carry for myself View Post
    issue with black talons lol

    #1 they are no longer made and very hard to find + well over $60 a box when you do.
    Ranger SXT.

    SXT = "Same eXact Thing" as Black Talons, except they're not painted black.

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    Quote Originally Posted by KBCraig View Post
    Ranger SXT.

    SXT = "Same eXact Thing" as Black Talons, except they're not painted black.
    very good point. and they also do not carry the name "black talon" which the anti gunners...and brady bunch.....well we know what they would do ;-)
    i would rather run out of blood, breath and life. and die fighting. than run out of ammo , and die with my pants down -Tom Scantas

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    winchester...hornady sucks...remington sucks...federals are alright. jmo

  11. #11
    Regular Member Gunslinger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Butch00 View Post
    Federal HST
    Winchester Black Talons
    Remington Golden Sabre
    Those are what I carry, primarily HST +P 230 gr .45 ACP and 124 gr +P+ 9mm. 125gr Golden Sabers for the .357s. No more Black Talon, but the Ranger Talon is the same round, just not black anymore because the lubaloy coating isn't used.
    "For any man who sheds his blood with me this day shall be my brother...And gentlemen now abed shall think themselves accursed, they were not here, and hold their manhoods cheap whilst any speaks who fought with us on Crispin's day." Henry V

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    Regular Member Gunslinger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by carry for myself View Post
    issue with black talons lol

    #1 they are no longer made and very hard to find + well over $60 a box when you do.
    #2 they do work beautifully but if you DO use them in self defense after all the bad press they got when they stopped producing them. any DA that sees a case where they were used will crucify you for doing so. they were called "inhumane and torturous weapons" by a federal court in the early 90's. still legal to use yes but. probably a bad idea ;-)
    Urban legend. Ranger Talons are used by lots of cops. That is all the evidence you need of their suitability for PD use in a court of law.
    "For any man who sheds his blood with me this day shall be my brother...And gentlemen now abed shall think themselves accursed, they were not here, and hold their manhoods cheap whilst any speaks who fought with us on Crispin's day." Henry V

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    Regular Member Gunslinger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thacountyhick View Post
    Just curious as to what everyone's thoughts and choices are for hollow points. I've done some testing of my own with water jugs and old cut up pants, and so far out of the three brands I've tried the federals don't stay together, Winchester rangers were decent and the hornady critical defense didn't seem to expand very well. I thought the hornadys were sopose to be the greatest for expansion. Any one done there own experiments?
    What Federals don't "stay together"? HSTs or Hydra-Shoks retain bullet mass as good or better than any other round in test after test, including the fbi's. Hornady is better noted for excellent penetration than expansion. Ranger Talons have excellent expansion, but don't penetrate as well as the other two--still better than 12" as the fbi protocol requires.
    "For any man who sheds his blood with me this day shall be my brother...And gentlemen now abed shall think themselves accursed, they were not here, and hold their manhoods cheap whilst any speaks who fought with us on Crispin's day." Henry V

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    I carry 230gn Federal Hydroshocks in .45 or 124gn Speer Gold Dots in 9mm. I don't carry +p loads in any of my guns, but I pick the non +p with the best penetration and weight retention. I don't rely too much on expansion capabilities. Expansion is nice if it occurs, but it's not guaranteed, especially when penetrating clothing.

  15. #15
    Regular Member Gunslinger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by boyscout399 View Post
    I carry 230gn Federal Hydroshocks in .45 or 124gn Speer Gold Dots in 9mm. I don't carry +p loads in any of my guns, but I pick the non +p with the best penetration and weight retention. I don't rely too much on expansion capabilities. Expansion is nice if it occurs, but it's not guaranteed, especially when penetrating clothing.
    I always carry +P in .45 or .38spcl, +P+ in my Browning Hi-Powers. I like the added velocity which does help expansion. If you are looking at best penetration, I would suggest the 147g in 9mm. You lose velocity and some expansion, but gain penetration and mass retention. The 124g +P+ Federal HSTs hit 1300fps from the 4 5/8" bbl of my HPs. I find that reassuring. .45s in 230 grain--even hardball, have all the mass you need. +P is just another 75fps. I carry HST .45s, as well. Speer GDs in 135g +P in my M-85 snubbie.
    "For any man who sheds his blood with me this day shall be my brother...And gentlemen now abed shall think themselves accursed, they were not here, and hold their manhoods cheap whilst any speaks who fought with us on Crispin's day." Henry V

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    Regular Member hermannr's Avatar
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    Too much penetration is dangerous. The ideal projectile would exter, expand, but just fall out or even not leave the object shot. A projectile that goes completely through can injure someone/something you reallly did not want to shoot.

    I prefer Buffalo Bore for my .38 and my 9mm. I haven't found anything I really like for my CZ52 (7.62X25)

    There is an American manufacturer that offers 7.62X25 JHP, I just haven't purchased any yet (bit pricey). I am afraid the FMJ Russian ammo I do have would go right through someone and just keep on going,

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    that is exactly why i do not carry ball ammunition. it is known for through-and-through wounds. check out discovery health. bangers get rushed to the ER for 8 gunshot wounds. all 8 9mm all of them through-and-through. all of them ball ammunition.

    i rarely carry 9mm for this same reason. its a very fast, hot and small round. even with HPJ's it still runs a risk of over-penetration. hence why i also only carry .40 and up. also in heavier weights 180g+ the 165's - are great for over penetration. i also chose wisely on expansion. more expansion = more energy deposited into the target. and with the drag of the expansion it also slows the bullet the second it hits the target which means a far less chance of it coming out of home slice and entering my gf :-D
    i would rather run out of blood, breath and life. and die fighting. than run out of ammo , and die with my pants down -Tom Scantas

  18. #18
    Regular Member Gunslinger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hermannr View Post
    Too much penetration is dangerous. The ideal projectile would exter, expand, but just fall out or even not leave the object shot. A projectile that goes completely through can injure someone/something you reallly did not want to shoot.

    I prefer Buffalo Bore for my .38 and my 9mm. I haven't found anything I really like for my CZ52 (7.62X25)

    There is an American manufacturer that offers 7.62X25 JHP, I just haven't purchased any yet (bit pricey). I am afraid the FMJ Russian ammo I do have would go right through someone and just keep on going,
    Buffalo Bore is loaded to +P velocities as standard. Their .357 mag in 125g gives 1500+ fps. That kind of velocity gives great expansion with more than adequate penetration. Their 115g 9mm +P gives 1400fps. Nothing else touches it, but only for use in top quality 9s.
    "For any man who sheds his blood with me this day shall be my brother...And gentlemen now abed shall think themselves accursed, they were not here, and hold their manhoods cheap whilst any speaks who fought with us on Crispin's day." Henry V

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