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Thread: Anyone ever have this problem?

  1. #1
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    Anyone ever have this problem? (incident resolved)

    The problem was resolved. Thank you for everyone who supported me. I'm sorry for not posting any updates, I've been extremely busy after the incident was resolved in court.
    Last edited by Cameron Bybee; 03-01-2012 at 12:38 AM.

  2. #2
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    If this is true and accurate you need to shut up and get an attorney. This is text book case of both civil and criminal violations.

    As much as I want to hear about all this it's best to contact your attorny so they can obtain any and all evidence before it disappears.

    If you want your firearm back I would do it today!


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  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deepdiver36 View Post
    If this is true and accurate you need to shut up and get an attorney. This is text book case of both civil and criminal violations.

    As much as I want to hear about all this it's best to contact your attorny so they can obtain any and all evidence before it disappears.

    If you want your firearm back I would do it today!


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Doing so now, any suggestions on a decent attorney for this?

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    Quote Originally Posted by NavyLCDR View Post
    I would have provided the officer's real names in your story and kept your own and your fiancee's private. You don't need to respect these officers because in this case they committed criminal acts.
    Gimme just a second and i'll fix what i wrote.

    Edit: Done.
    Last edited by Cameron Bybee; 06-29-2011 at 01:29 PM.

  5. #5
    Founder's Club Member thebigsd's Avatar
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    Make sure you or your attorney FOIA all communications and documentation related to your detainment and subsequent ticketing. Do this sooner than later.
    "When seconds count between living or dying, the police are only minutes away."

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    It would appear from your account that Officer Potter did not abide by 77-7-17:
    A peace officer who finds a dangerous weapon pursuant to a frisk may take and keep it until the completion of the questioning, at which time he shall either return it if lawfully possessed, or arrest such person.
    Like has been said, I'd love to know more details and quiz you on the specifics, but I've heard over and over again that you should consult an attorney first.

    I don't know of many off-hand, but two names I've heard passed around are Mitch Vilos and Greg Skordas. You might start there.

    If an attorney ends up being too costly or slow, I'd raise holy hell for Officer Potter. Submit GRAMA requests for all the records related to your encounter, including radio traffic / IM's / emails, police reports, etc. File a complaint with the police department, see if there's a citizen review board you can complain to as well. File a complaint with the DA and AG over the 77-7-17 situation.

    And next time somthing like this happens, I'd clam up as soon as it became apparent that it was something more than a friendly, "hi, how are you?" If the prosecutor doesn't drop the disorderly conduct charge soon, then I'd prepare to defend myself in court if I were you. I'd offer to help, but I'm not an attorney.
    Last edited by ItsaSecret; 06-29-2011 at 04:28 PM.

  7. #7
    Regular Member M-Taliesin's Avatar
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    Howdy Pardner!
    If your story is accurate, I'd say that the arresting officer is guilty of abuse of power and false arrest.

    For starters, open carry in Utah is legal so long as you are two steps away from being able to discharge your weapon. I.E., no round in chamber, gun not cocked. I'd figure being holstered and required to draw the weapon would be a third, but I ain't a lawyer either.

    In addition, Utah has complete state preemption of all municipal firearms regulations. In other words, there cannot be a local ordinance that restricts your right more than the state statutes.

    As a result, the officer involved could not charge you with a firearms violation. Hence his comment "#*$#& Utah laws!" So he trumped up a disorderly rap. If your depiction of events is as you describe, that won't hold water in a court of law, especially when a jury of your peers is hearing evidence.

    I agree that you should get an attorney on the job as quickly as possible, file FOIA requests, and gather all the exculpatory evidence you can before showing up in front of a judge or magistrate. The attorney you choose should also be prepared to file suit against the city, with the officer as respondent, and seek punative damages and possibly even criminal charges against the officer himself. When somebody with a badge breaks the law, it doesn't matter that he's deputized by the city. It is a criminal act.

    If it were me, I'd be filing a counter charge against the officer as soon as practical.

    One thing I expect from this episode in your life.... a nice payday for you when the smoke clears... assuming your presentation of events is accurate in details. And once you get that settlement, maybe you can drive over there next time to escort your lady home.

    Blessings,
    M-Taliesin

  8. #8
    Regular Member HandyHamlet's Avatar
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    You should delete the Original Post immediately. Anything you say or do...

    My hardliner opinion.
    "Don't interfere with anything in the Constitution. That must be maintained, for it is the only safeguard of our liberties."
    Abraham Lincoln

    "Some time ago, a bunch of lefties defied the law by dancing at the Jefferson Memorial, resulting in their arrests. Last week, a bunch of them pulled the same stunt and - using patented Lefist techniques - provoked the Park Police into having to use force to arrest them."
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    Regular Member ADulay's Avatar
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    I never realized that having a coffee at Starbucks constituted grounds for Disorderly Conduct!!

    Did you drop your spoon a bit too loudly? Maybe spill a bit too much Splenda on the table?

    From your description of the events, you've got one heck of a lawsuit to proceed with.

    The actions of the officers appeared to be completely wrong (I am a former LEO) and their conduct was uncalled for.

    At a minimum you need to take this to the city council or the Chief of Police and see why these officers are abusing their status as police.

    I hate hearing things like this when the local PD takes it upon themselves to "make up the law" and arrest someone. It's too bad that I've seen it happen over the years a lot.

    Good luck with your legal proceedings and wishing you well.

    AD
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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by ItsaSecret View Post
    If an attorney ends up being too costly or slow...
    Sadly, it is, as much as i would love to get a good attorney, i lack the funds to get a decent one, however, I do have my ducks in a row and i think i'm ready for when i meet with the Court Appointed one.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by ItsaSecret View Post
    It would appear from your account that Officer Potter did not abide by 77-7-17:


    Like has been said, I'd love to know more details and quiz you on the specifics, but I've heard over and over again that you should consult an attorney first.

    I don't know of many off-hand, but two names I've heard passed around are Mitch Vilos and Greg Skordas. You might start there.

    If an attorney ends up being too costly or slow, I'd raise holy hell for Officer Potter. Submit GRAMA requests for all the records related to your encounter, including radio traffic / IM's / emails, police reports, etc. File a complaint with the police department, see if there's a citizen review board you can complain to as well. File a complaint with the DA and AG over the 77-7-17 situation.

    And next time somthing like this happens, I'd clam up as soon as it became apparent that it was something more than a friendly, "hi, how are you?" If the prosecutor doesn't drop the disorderly conduct charge soon, then I'd prepare to defend myself in court if I were you. I'd offer to help, but I'm not an attorney.
    Wow, I never knew about that law...This is going to look interesting, especially since I was not ARRESTED, i was DETAINED and then let go. I've already planned on filing a complaint with Cottonwood PD, as well as talking to the prosecutor and seeing if i can get the charges dropped and my firearm returned, since Officer Potter was WAY out of line, and I have the evidence to prove it. This won't bode will for him, I may only get the court appointed attorney, doesn't mean i cannot win and get this all solved.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by ADulay View Post
    I never realized that having a coffee at Starbucks constituted grounds for Disorderly Conduct!!

    Did you drop your spoon a bit too loudly? Maybe spill a bit too much Splenda on the table?

    From your description of the events, you've got one heck of a lawsuit to proceed with.

    The actions of the officers appeared to be completely wrong (I am a former LEO) and their conduct was uncalled for.

    At a minimum you need to take this to the city council or the Chief of Police and see why these officers are abusing their status as police.

    I hate hearing things like this when the local PD takes it upon themselves to "make up the law" and arrest someone. It's too bad that I've seen it happen over the years a lot.

    Good luck with your legal proceedings and wishing you well.

    AD
    Coffee: getting you in trouble since 2011. Lol!

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by thebigsd View Post
    Make sure you or your attorney FOIA all communications and documentation related to your detainment and subsequent ticketing. Do this sooner than later.
    I will, there's no question about that.

  14. #14
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    "For starters, open carry in Utah is legal so long as you are two steps away from being able to discharge your weapon. I.E., no round in chamber, gun not cocked."

    You might want to look in to any case law or AG opinions on that. The empty chamber and not cocked situation can both be remedied by ONE action...ie racking the slide.

    If OP as stated, sounds like lawsuit time to me!!
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  15. #15
    Regular Member Utah_Patriot's Avatar
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    Call me Cameron

    Hey give me a call Cameron 801_448_7574 anytime day or night
    Zach
    8014487574
    "A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity"

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cameron Bybee View Post
    Sadly, it is, as much as i would love to get a good attorney, i lack the funds to get a decent one, however, I do have my ducks in a row and i think i'm ready for when i meet with the Court Appointed one.
    If what you relate is accurate, you may well have grounds for a serious civil suit. Any number of attorneys will happily sign on for that on contingency. Find one who does both criminal defense and civil suits (such as Mitch Vilos) and you might be pleasantly surprised.

    Charles

  17. #17
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    I have OC'ed at the same Starbucks a number of times, It is just down the street from my mothers house. I ran into LEO's a few times but never had an issue.

    Take the advice of the members, quit talking, get a good laywer and sue their sorry a$$es.


    Good luck and keep us posted when you can.
    Steve


    "Life is hard, its even harder when you are stupid!"

  18. #18
    Regular Member jpm84092's Avatar
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    When I took my instructor training we were told that if we heard horror stories like yours from our students, we were to refer the person with the horror story to BCI. And, if we witnessed one to call BCI and identify ourselves as instructors - and would be immediately referred to a BCI Investigator who would pay a call on the misinformed LEO.
    My cats support the Second Amendment. NRA Life Member, NRA Instructor: Pistol, Rifle, & Personal Protection - NRA Certified Range Safety Officer, Utah BCI Certified Concealed Firearm Permit Instructor.
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  19. #19
    Regular Member DocWalker's Avatar
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    Yes something needs to be done sooner than later about this or this LEO and his fellow LEO's will think they are above the law. They will go around like school bullies beating up on nerds. The Officer's and the City need to be sued, and a complaint of criminal behavior for this officers actions. It would be nice if he was fired and not allowed to carry a gun and a badge with his attitude. He will probably really hurt someone one day if you let this go. Your civil rights were abused and you deserve to have this wrong fixed. The lawsuit should specificly name the officer and the city as defendents. You might check into getting legal representation via pro-bono or through one of the gun right organization, I have donated to some for years that offer to defend gun owners rights.

  20. #20
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    Deprivation of RIGHTS. Title 18 USC Sect 241 & 242, Title 42 Sect 1983

    Deprivation of RIGHTS. Title 18 USC Sect 241 & 242, Title 42 Sect 1983
    Sue them, file criminal charges against them with at least a bare minimum charge of "aggravated kidnapping" as they were armed with guns when they detained you

    http://www.justice.gov/crt/about/crm/241fin.php


    CONSPIRACY AGAINST RIGHTS

    Summary:

    • Section 241 of Title 18 is the civil rights conspiracy statute. Section 241 makes it unlawful for two or more persons to agree together to injure, threaten, or intimidate a person in any state, territory or district in the free exercise or enjoyment of any right or privilege secured to him/her by the Constitution or the laws of the Unites States, (or because of his/her having exercised the same). Unlike most conspiracy statutes, Section 241 does not require that one of the conspirators commit an overt act prior to the conspiracy becoming a crime.
      The offense is punishable by a range of imprisonment up to a life term or the death penalty, depending upon the circumstances of the crime, and the resulting injury, if any.
    TITLE 18, U.S.C., SECTION 241

    • If two or more persons conspire to injure, oppress, threaten, or intimidate any person in any State, Territory, Commonwealth, Possession, or District in the free exercise or enjoyment of any right or privilege secured to him by the Constitution or laws of the United States, or because of his having so exercised the same;...They shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both; and if death results from the acts committed in violation of this section or if such acts include kidnapping or an attempt to kidnap, aggravated sexual abuse or an attempt to commit aggravated sexual abuse, or an attempt to kill, they shall be fined under this title or imprisoned for any term of years or for life, or both, or may be sentenced to death.




    http://www.justice.gov/crt/about/crm/242fin.php
    DEPRIVATION OF RIGHTS UNDER COLOR OF LAW

    Summary:
    • Section 242 of Title 18 makes it a crime for a person acting under color of any law to willfully deprive a person of a right or privilege protected by the Constitution or laws of the United States.
      For the purpose of Section 242, acts under "color of law" include acts not only done by federal, state, or local officials within the their lawful authority, but also acts done beyond the bounds of that official's lawful authority, if the acts are done while the official is purporting to or pretending to act in the performance of his/her official duties. Persons acting under color of law within the meaning of this statute include police officers, prisons guards and other law enforcement officials, as well as judges, care providers in public health facilities, and others who are acting as public officials. It is not necessary that the crime be motivated by animus toward the race, color, religion, sex, handicap, familial status or national origin of the victim.The offense is punishable by a range of imprisonment up to a life term, or the death penalty, depending upon the circumstances of the crime, and the resulting injury, if any.
    TITLE 18, U.S.C., SECTION 242





    • Whoever, under color of any law, statute, ordinance, regulation, or custom, willfully subjects any person in any State, Territory, Commonwealth, Possession, or District to the deprivation of any rights, privileges, or immunities secured or protected by the Constitution or laws of the United States, ... shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than one year, or both; and if bodily injury results from the acts committed in violation of this section or if such acts include the use, attempted use, or threatened use of a dangerous weapon, explosives, or fire, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both; and if death results from the acts committed in violation of this section or if such acts include kidnaping or an attempt to kidnap, aggravated sexual abuse, or an attempt to commit aggravated sexual abuse, or an attempt to kill, shall be fined under this title, or imprisoned for any term of years or for life, or both, or may be sentenced to death.




    • SEE ALSO: http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/42...3----000-.html



      TITLE 42 > CHAPTER 21 > SUBCHAPTER I > § 1983
      Prev | Next
      § 1983. Civil action for deprivation of rights

      How Current is This?

      Every person who, under color of any statute, ordinance, regulation, custom, or usage, of any State or Territory or the District of Columbia, subjects, or causes to be subjected, any citizen of the United States or other person within the jurisdiction thereof to the deprivation of any rights, privileges, or immunities secured by the Constitution and laws, shall be liable to the party injured in an action at law, suit in equity, or other proper proceeding for redress, except that in any action brought against a judicial officer for an act or omission taken in such officer’s judicial capacity, injunctive relief shall not be granted unless a declaratory decree was violated or declaratory relief was unavailable. For the purposes of this section, any Act of Congress applicable exclusively to the District of Columbia shall be considered to be a statute of the District of Columbia.
    • I hope some of this info will help you.
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  21. #21
    Regular Member MKEgal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jpm84092
    When I took my instructor training we were told that if we heard horror stories like yours from our students, we were to refer the person with the horror story to BCI.
    According to the BCI page about concealed firearms:
    If you have any questions for the BCI Firearms Division, you may contact us by phone (801) 965-4445 or eMail to DPSFIREARMS@utah.gov
    I'd really like to know the # of the law for that "gun time-out"...
    Maybe the officer will have time to look it up while he's suspended.
    Start with the BCI - email today, follow up w/ a call Tues. - then on Tues. find a lawyer.
    Today or tomorrow write & mail an open records request, so it's in the mailbox to be processed on Tues. morning.
    Depending on what BCI does, you might not even have to initiate contact w/ the Chief.
    Last edited by MKEgal; 07-03-2011 at 04:38 PM.
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  22. #22
    Regular Member Utah_Patriot's Avatar
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    Question?

    Cameron hey I have some info for you that pertains to this incident.
    I need some information from you so I can help.

    I would like to sit down and discuss some aspects of the stop.
    I have some great contacts and good information that we can sit down and talk about.

    My number is 8014487574 please call me.
    Zach
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    "A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity"

  23. #23
    Regular Member Gunslinger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cameron Bybee View Post
    My name is Cameron Bybee, I'm new to these forums, but I feel a strong need to get this out.

    On Saturday night, June 25th, 2011, I was charged with Disorderly Conduct for doing absolutely nothing by Officer Jeffrey Potter of the Cottonwood Heights Police Department.


    I walked to the Target on 7025 S. Park Center Drive, in Salt Lake City, Utah, from my home in Midvale 30 minutes away, at approx. 9:50 PM to walk my fiancee home from work. I arrived at approx. 10:15 PM, I had my firearm (a 1911) on my hip in a holster, strapped down inside it with NO BULLET in the chamber and the hammer forward, in PLAIN SIGHT, as I always do at night when I walk my fiancee home from her night shifts. Upon arrival at Target, I walked to the cafe where she works and sat in my usual seat at the Starbucks Cafe inside the store, waiting for her. At exactly 10:26 PM, June 25th, 2011 (according to the ticket), three officers walked into the store and over to me, Officer Potter began to ask me some questions "hey, how are you this evening?" I looked up from my phone. "Eh, exhausted, but good." Potter gave a false smile to me. "Good, good. Are you armed?" I tilted my head slightly "yes, Sir, indeed I am." I knew what was going on. "Can you stand up slowly and turn so I can see it?" being as respectful as possible, I answered "Yes, sir" and did as they asked, figuring this would be a simple 'check-and-go'. one of the other officers (his name escapes me) took my firearm out of it's holster, checked it, set it on the table I was previously sitting at, and asked "do you have any Identification on you?" I nodded "yes, sir, in my wallet." I took my wallet out and handed them the ID, and put my wallet back. I realize this was a stupid idea, but I figured it would look better should things go awry. The officer (rather forcefully) turned me around and began to cuff me, informing me that I was being charged with Misdemeanor Disorderly Conduct, didn't even read me my rights. I was removed from the store by the police officers, Officer Potter escorting me and doing nothing but cursing and personally insulting me the entire time (I think i saw a sailor blushing off by the Deli) while I tried to ask why I was being charged with Disorderly Conduct, and every time i tried to defend myself verbally, he said "Shut up and listen, you can't listen to me when you're talking.", things like that, basically making sure i could not speak. as we made it outside, I counted four police cars (two cruisers, two SUV's) and more cops than needed for something like this. Officer Potter stuffed into the police cruiser, almost hitting my head on the roof unintentionally, and sat there for what felt like hours. As Potter walked away towards the store, I could see my fiancee and three employees (all managers) sitting on a nearby bench as if waiting for me. She looked like she was about to break down into tears, i felt my heart sink and go "plop" right in my stomach. When he came back, he did some stuff on his computer. I saw a picture of me come up and i joked "Not a very flattering picture, eh?" he gave no response. Potter then called another officer in and asked for a cheat sheet, a list of all of Utah's penal codes and statutes. "Have you been drinking this evening?" He asked me, i shook my head slightly and responded "No, I have not." This is where concern kicked in, as that was met with a muttered "Dammit..." from Potter. I shook my head quickly and asked "What was that?" He chuckled lightly and said to me "Oh, only joking." Somehow, I doubted it. I don't think his boss will like it if I file the complaint and put what he said on it. more time passed, more questions asked, and finally, I think the killing blow to his career hit. he said, very clearly, "I f**king HATE Utah's laws!" before getting out of the car shortly after. I sat there as they went into the trunk to lock away my firearm, likely writing things down. "It's a...oh, it's a Citadel. F**king piece of sh*t Citadel." Potter began to mock my FIREARM now. I love my gun, and did not appreciate his constant insults towards me NOR my firearm. Finally, he closed the trunk and let me out, beginning another barrage of insults before un-cuffing me. My wrists were red as blood from the cuffs, my left index finger twitched like it was having a seizure. he looked at me and said something similar to "now, if you do anything stupid, try to run, sudden movements, we're going to beat the sh*t out of you, mace you, taze you, the works, you understand?" a direct THREAT to me. I respectfully nodded and responded "Well, yeah, I kinda figured that, I'm not THAT dumb." he rolled his eyes and said "Okay, now, Mr. Bybee..." and began to explain what I was being charged with and why, the charges making no sense, his explanation was "Causing a Disturbance". I asked him again WHY I was even being charged, and he responded with "f**king gun, f**king store." same story. I began to feel concern for my gun and began to ask for it back. "Now I'm not charging you because of the gun, but I AM taking it." I asked why i can't have it back, he responded "because I'm putting you in 'gun time out' okay?" Of course, some of the time, Officer Potter was much more coarse. he began to lecture me on what HE can do with a gun, as if i have never used a gun in my life, constantly citing his training as a police officer. the same quote running through my mind over and over, "You're a cop, I'M NOT!", but never exiting my mouth. I signed the ticket and they left without a second word, an empty holster on my belt, red, near bloody wrists, and a broken state of mind. We began our silent trek home, my mind a jumbled mess of How's and Why's.

    Anyone ever had this problem with Cottonwood Heights police before? I've been OCing for close to a year now and NEVER had a problem until that day.
    Get a lawyer and start planning how you're going to spend the award you'll get from this pos and the town.
    "For any man who sheds his blood with me this day shall be my brother...And gentlemen now abed shall think themselves accursed, they were not here, and hold their manhoods cheap whilst any speaks who fought with us on Crispin's day." Henry V

  24. #24
    Regular Member Utah_Patriot's Avatar
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    Updates yet?

    Any update yet????

    Still willing to help if you need assistance
    Zach
    8014487574
    "A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity"

  25. #25
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    Cottonwood Heights police

    Cottonwood Heights police force is a very new police department. I believe its only been in operation about 2 or 3 years.
    It is more than obvious that Cottonwood Heights recruited for police from outside of Utah.
    No native Utahn LEO would have made the comment that he hates Utah gun law.
    Just sayin, Utah LEO's are informed about Utah gun laws and like Utah laws. This and this guy aint from Utah and should go back to where he came from.
    Probably California.
    tj

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