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Thread: Things like this make police look bad. None strong enough to do the right thing.

  1. #1
    Regular Member Yaki's Avatar
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    Things like this make police look bad. None strong enough to do the right thing.


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    The woman is right that the focus should be on holding the officer accountable for his actions. Furthermore, the officers who harassed citizens meeting in support of the woman need to be disciplined, along with any leadership of fostered or turned a blind eye to that deliberate intimidation tactic.

    Rochester PD has one chance to defuse this situation. Will they take it?

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    Holding breath?

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    Regular Member Badger Johnson's Avatar
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    Glad to hear charges dismissed, but they messed up charging her. Without being charged, it would have been harder to file a suit on her part, I think. (For example just cuffed and detained and released).
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    Regular Member HKcarrier's Avatar
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    So she got arrested for whatever it was... then the charges were dropped... then there was a meeting in support of her and her lawsuit and the cops show up and write tickets out to everyone!??!?



    That's a legitimate use of police resources and 4-5 patrols? Really? That's type of retaliation should NOT be tolerated.

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    Regular Member hermannr's Avatar
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    HK: She was arrested for vidio taping a traffic stop from the curb in front of her house, when asked to move back she moved back a few feet onto her own lawn, then the Officer "ordered" her back into her house and to stop taping the police action, then he arrested her for "obstruction".

  7. #7
    Regular Member Deanimator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eye95 View Post
    Rochester PD has one chance to defuse this situation. Will they take it?
    In a word, "no".

  8. #8
    Regular Member Deanimator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Badger Johnson View Post
    Glad to hear charges dismissed, but they messed up charging her. Without being charged, it would have been harder to file a suit on her part, I think. (For example just cuffed and detained and released).
    When police falsely arrest someone in this way, it's the equivalent of an armed robber sending the prosecutor a video tape of a robbery with a notarized confession.

    FOIA request EVERYTHING and go over it with an electron microscope. ANY evidence of false statements by police needs to be brought to the department's attention... not with any expectation of punishment by the DEPARTMENT, but to impose upon them a duty under Brady to notify future defendants of that cop's mendacity problem. Of course when you do that, he may NEVER testify to ANYTHING again, EVER. No prosecutor with two braincells to rub together is going to put somebody on the stand who'll be ripped to shreds by the defense on veracity and character grounds.

    I imagine that it's pretty hard to advance in law enforcement if no prosecutor will even let you testify to your own name on the stand...

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    Regular Member Gunslinger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deanimator View Post
    When police falsely arrest someone in this way, it's the equivalent of an armed robber sending the prosecutor a video tape of a robbery with a notarized confession.

    FOIA request EVERYTHING and go over it with an electron microscope. ANY evidence of false statements by police needs to be brought to the department's attention... not with any expectation of punishment by the DEPARTMENT, but to impose upon them a duty under Brady to notify future defendants of that cop's mendacity problem. Of course when you do that, he may NEVER testify to ANYTHING again, EVER. No prosecutor with two braincells to rub together is going to put somebody on the stand who'll be ripped to shreds by the defense on veracity and character grounds.

    I imagine that it's pretty hard to advance in law enforcement if no prosecutor will even let you testify to your own name on the stand...
    There are two separate torts here: false arrest and malicious prosecution. That charges were brought and then dropped is all that's necessary to make the second charge have standing. Once they detained her illegally, the first charge was made. She was physically harmed, as well. The tort of battery comes into play. While she could sue under 1983, this is a 'very' strong case in state court for seeking exemplary damages--especially with a jury. The follow up unlawful action by his thug buddies can lead to conspiracy charges, as well. These are Federal, criminal charges. Doubtful any fed prosecutor will have the balls to follow up, but it is further evidence of knowing, unlawful activity and conspiracy to harass and intimidate--particularly if any of the cars belonged to witnesses of the illegal arrest.
    The dicks in Rochester government will fall all over themselves to settle this. This woman will walk away with a bundle. So will her lawyer, of course.
    "For any man who sheds his blood with me this day shall be my brother...And gentlemen now abed shall think themselves accursed, they were not here, and hold their manhoods cheap whilst any speaks who fought with us on Crispin's day." Henry V

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    Regular Member paramedic70002's Avatar
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    Here is her "crime" on YouTube:

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    Regular Member Deanimator's Avatar
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    The idea that the Rochester PD will do ANYTHING to "make this right", at least not without a metaphorical gun to their heads is laughable.

    The retaliatory ticketing is ABSOLUTE proof of the culture at play inside the Rochester PD. It's very "Chicagoesque".

    The ONLY way anything will happen is if it's IMPOSED from above by the mayor and or city council under direct threat of civil litigation. It's PAINFULLY obvious that the Rochester PD considers itself a hostile army of occupation. They should be treated as such.

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    It is an assumption that the top leadership instigated or condoned the retaliation. Over the course of the next few weeks to months, we will find out based on how the leadership talks about the original police action and the subsequent onslaught on supporters of the victim and on how they treat the officers who undertook these abusive actions.

    I hope they decry the actions and seek to make the woman whole. I don't think they will, but I don't pretend to already know where they stand. Such thinking would betray bias.

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    Regular Member riverrat10k's Avatar
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    I disagree with, you eye. I think the actions show a clear and unequivocable corruption and statist and facist attitude toward the citizenry. Original altercation, bad cop. Retalitory ticketing, culture of corruption. You are always such an apologist for illegal behavior by LEO's, and seem to doubt the motives of the free man.

  14. #14
    Regular Member Deanimator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eye95 View Post
    It is an assumption that the top leadership instigated or condoned the retaliation. Over the course of the next few weeks to months, we will find out based on how the leadership talks about the original police action and the subsequent onslaught on supporters of the victim and on how they treat the officers who undertook these abusive actions.

    I hope they decry the actions and seek to make the woman whole. I don't think they will, but I don't pretend to already know where they stand. Such thinking would betray bias.
    The mere fact that the retaliation took place out in the open is a SURE indicator of what the organizational culture will tolerate, or indeed reward. Either the cops involved had a reasonable belief that nothing bad would happen to them or their mentally ill.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Deanimator View Post
    The mere fact that the retaliation took place out in the open is a SURE indicator of what the organizational culture will tolerate, or indeed reward. Either the cops involved had a reasonable belief that nothing bad would happen to them or their mentally ill.
    Oh. A "sure" indicator.

    Prejudice can be so easily justified.

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    Regular Member riverrat10k's Avatar
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    Disagree, again, eye, and agree with deanimator. Prejudice? No. Objectivity? Yes. How often do you run an experiment before you are comfortable with the results?

    Clearly, a culture of corruption and an "us vs. the civilians" retaliation. While I agree with your caution in jumping to conclusions, someone on another thread quoted Radley Balko of Reason Magazine (well known libertarian print and blog).

    Paraphrased "Oh, yet ANOTHER isolated incident."

    We are not saints. But then neither are the cops. Yeah, just another isolated incident of LEO overreach. Sure.

  17. #17
    Regular Member Deanimator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eye95 View Post
    Oh. A "sure" indicator.

    Prejudice can be so easily justified.
    So then rather than having made a rational judgment that their behavior wouldn't be meaningfully punished, you believe that the cops were insane?

    No sane person does something like that without making the SLIGHTEST effort to conceal it unless they reasonably believe that there will be no serious consequences.

    And why would they believe that there would be no serious consequences?

    Because either they were TOLD there would be none, or by observation of others they SAW that there would be none.

    The cops were crazy? Is that your best and final answer?
    Last edited by Deanimator; 07-02-2011 at 12:07 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Deanimator View Post
    So then rather than having made a rational judgment that their behavior wouldn't be meaningfully punished, you believe that the cops were insane? [Note the ridiculous strawman.]

    No sane person does something like that without making the SLIGHTEST effort to conceal it unless they reasonably believe that there will be no serious consequences.

    And why would they believe that there would be no serious consequences?

    Because either they were TOLD there would be none, or by observation of others they SAW that there would be none.

    The cops were crazy? Is that your best and final answer?
    Once again, a rational argument cannot be made. So the opposing view is invented in a way that can be easily dismissed.

    Moving on.

  19. #19
    Regular Member Deanimator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eye95 View Post
    Once again, a rational argument cannot be made. So the opposing view is invented in a way that can be easily dismissed.

    Moving on.
    Note the UTTER inability to refute that which was said, or even to merely offer an alternate theory of the crime.

  20. #20
    Regular Member Deanimator's Avatar
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    Giving somebody the "benefit of the doubt" requires that there BE doubt.

    There's no question AT ALL of what ANY of these cops did.

    Now either they ALL decided to fall on their swords in a kamikaze/suicide bomber-like vendetta against the victim in this case, KNOWING that it was career suicide, OR they had a reasoned belief based on experience and observation of what was tolerated in that agency that they faced no dire consequences.

    ONE of those things has to be the case.

    And option two does NOT preclude management throwing them under the bus for CYA. They wouldn't be the first cops in history following the "party line" to be sacrificed when the "party line" either needed to change or APPEAR to change. The names Genrikh Yagoda and Nikolai Yezhov come to mind...
    Last edited by Deanimator; 07-02-2011 at 10:28 AM. Reason: Tense correction

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    There is question about the department leadership, unless one is prejudiced.

  22. #22
    Regular Member Deanimator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eye95 View Post
    There is question about the department leadership, unless one is prejudiced.
    You're standing on the railing at the highest point of the Skyway in Chicago. There is a question about the result if you step off, unless one is prejudiced.

  23. #23
    Regular Member HKcarrier's Avatar
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    Lady should have emasculated the sissy po-pos for being "not feeling safe" with a woman standing behind them and called them out for being p*ssys...

    The whole "we don't feel safe" was an obvious comment for to justify their arrest and for the judge to see later.... "well officer safety blah blah".

    The retalitory ticketing was VERY childish.


    This sort of action by the police department really needs to be quelled. Acting as if they have license to order anyone around at any time. Retaliation. Etc...


    I would have asked the cop who gave him the authority to order me (or anyone who was not a law breaker) around...

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    Quote Originally Posted by HKcarrier View Post
    ...The retalitory ticketing was VERY childish...
    Others may disagree, but this part of the officers' actions is the most reprehensible. Those actions conclusively demonstrate that the officers were acting in their own selfish interests, but with the power of the State.

    The consequences of these actions may pale in comparison to other actions officers have taken under color of law, but the certainty that the actions were retaliatory make them undeniably oppressive exercise of governmental authority and intolerable.

    IMO, the ticketing campaign was criminal and should be prosecuted.

  25. #25
    Regular Member Gunslinger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eye95 View Post
    Others may disagree, but this part of the officers' actions is the most reprehensible. Those actions conclusively demonstrate that the officers were acting in their own selfish interests, but with the power of the State.

    The consequences of these actions may pale in comparison to other actions officers have taken under color of law, but the certainty that the actions were retaliatory make them undeniably oppressive exercise of governmental authority and intolerable.

    IMO, the ticketing campaign was criminal and should be prosecuted.
    This action added a zero to the size of the settlement check she'll get. Conspiracy, harrassment, intimidation, malicious prosecution. The interesting thought is that this could be a class action suit someday, over and above her suit. I have no doubt this is merely one of a pattern of abuse of power by these thugs and their leadership is hardly blind to it.
    "For any man who sheds his blood with me this day shall be my brother...And gentlemen now abed shall think themselves accursed, they were not here, and hold their manhoods cheap whilst any speaks who fought with us on Crispin's day." Henry V

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