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Thread: Thought I was going to have to draw

  1. #1
    Regular Member CDT COX's Avatar
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    Thumbs down Thought I was going to have to draw

    Still a bit shook up right now

    I get off from work around 9:30 or so, its always dark when I do. Well, about 20 minutes ago I got out of my Jeep at the gas station. I put my card in the pump and heard some yelling. While I was filling up, across the street from the gas station a big black dude was yelling toward the gas station F-this, F-that, I dont give a F, I'll F all you MF's up, ect. The pump I was at is closet to the road. Anyway the guy was mad as hell about something, or someone at the gas station. He took a step out in the street coming towards us. I hung up the nozzle. As he kept getting closer I was moving between the pump and Jeep around towards the back so he couldnt see me, or my sidearm. As soon he was past my Jeep, probably 30 or 40 feet from the hood, I got in and got out of there quick! I dont know what happened after that, but I'm glad he didnt see me or come towards me.

    Ugh I need a hot shower or something thanks for listening

  2. #2
    Founder's Club Member thebigsd's Avatar
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    Should have said "Have a nice day" as he walked past. But seriously, it's good that the situation didn't get any worse.
    "When seconds count between living or dying, the police are only minutes away."

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    So if a bigger-than-you but unarmed assailant was clearly advancing toward you and you had no means of egress what would you do?

    Tough call to me. I've had my share of ass whippings growing up, and I wouldn't shoot someone over a black eye or fat lip, but if you get knocked out what do you think is going to happen to that pistol holstered on your hip? If someone is unbalanced enough to attack you without cause, could you trust him not to kill or severely injure you if he manages to temporarily incapacitate you with a fist to the temple?
    "In the beginning of a change the patriot is a scarce man, and brave, and hated and scorned. When his cause succeeds, the timid join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot." - Mark Twain

    I don't bother with pragmatic statistics while discussing my constitutional rights. The issue is far less complex, to me. Free men should be able to act like free men.

  4. #4
    Regular Member CDT COX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smith45acp View Post
    So if a bigger-than-you but unarmed assailant was clearly advancing toward you and you had no means of egress what would you do?

    Tough call to me. I've had my share of ass whippings growing up, and I wouldn't shoot someone over a black eye or fat lip, but if you get knocked out what do you think is going to happen to that pistol holstered on your hip? If someone is unbalanced enough to attack you without cause, could you trust him not to kill or severely injure you if he manages to temporarily incapacitate you with a fist to the temple?
    Exactly.

    Guy had me by atleast 60lbs maybe more yelling "I dont give a F, I'll F all you up" and other stuff along those lines. I'm glad I was able to get my Jeep between me and this maniac. I had it planned if he advance at me like an attack while I was still pumping/couldnt get in to drive away, I was going to unholster but get to the other side of my Jeep so there was no way he could reach me.

  5. #5
    Regular Member Coniferous's Avatar
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    1) Larger man coming at you, openly spewing verbal threats
    2) One single kick to your head can kill you, so your life is in danger
    3) Have gun? Defend self.

  6. #6
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    It's a bit different for me, as I have severe sleep apnea so if I get knocked out, I will stop breathing and die. This type of situation for me is life threatening, so I cannot risk "to take a beating".

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    Perhaps get into your vehicle, windows up and doors locked. Wait to see if anything lifethreatening happens to someone else. Play the "Good Witness" role or intervene if necessary.

  8. #8
    Regular Member 1Grizzly1's Avatar
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    Any time you are carrying and you are involved in a physical altercation, the fight is over a gun. You know this because you brought it! Statistics show that if your weapon is taken from you, you are going to get killed with it. I'm not sure how it is in NC, but in Utah, if someone is advancing on you and they have the physical means to harm you, you can defend yourself.

    I think you did the smart thing in just leaving.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CDT COX View Post
    I had it planned if he advance at me like an attack while I was still pumping/couldnt get in to drive away, I was going to unholster but get to the other side of my Jeep so there was no way he could reach me.
    Hose him with gas. Go for the face and eyes. Then get out while he's rolling around blind.

    Good job getting out of there.

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    Last edited by OC-moto450r; 08-02-2012 at 09:38 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by OC-moto450r View Post
    And call 911.

    Also make sure you are not blocked in and then become a victim yourself. (see link below)

    http://youtu.be/bHw5irZKNi8

    I think you did the right thing!
    +1

  12. #12
    Regular Member Dreamer's Avatar
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    This is why I always carry LE-grade pepper spray. Sometimes drawing and/or firing a gun may not be appropriate (or safe--like when you're pumping gas!). A good shot to the face with some high-octane OC should be enough to adjust the attitude of nearly ANY human.

    And if it doesn't then the use of deadly force is even MORE justified in the eyes of the law--you tried to use a less-than-lethal defense, and the attack continued...

    BTW, the new NC "Castle Doctrine" law that includes your vehicle doesn't go into effect until December 1 2011, just so y'all know...
    It is our cause to dispel the foggy thinking which avoids hard decisions in the delusion that a world of conflict will somehow mysteriously resolve itself into a world of harmony, if we just don't rock the boat or irritate the forces of aggression—and this is hogwash."
    --Barry Goldwater, 1964

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dreamer View Post
    This is why I always carry LE-grade pepper spray. Sometimes drawing and/or firing a gun may not be appropriate (or safe--like when you're pumping gas!). A good shot to the face with some high-octane OC should be enough to adjust the attitude of nearly ANY human.

    And if it doesn't then the use of deadly force is even MORE justified in the eyes of the law--you tried to use a less-than-lethal defense, and the attack continued...

    BTW, the new NC "Castle Doctrine" law that includes your vehicle doesn't go into effect until December 1 2011, just so y'all know...
    +1
    Great advice, thanks.

  14. #14
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    for me, in this situation if i had no means or time to escape i would have had my hand on my pistol (still holstered but maybe slipped the safety off, i OC a 1911 C&L) and if the guy came towards me i would have cautioned him that i'm just a by stander but that i am armed and will not be harmed my self, of course if you inform an irate person that you are armed he/she may pull a gun on you so if you do inform you got to be ready to draw and fire fast

    JMHO
    GO PIRATES!!!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by edrolee View Post
    hand on my pistol (still holstered but maybe slipped the safety off JMHO
    Don't take the safety off till you clear. This should be automatic : Clear holster then saftey off.

    -R

  16. #16
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    If nothing else at least make your position clear and place your hand on your firearm and disengage the safety if you have one.

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    Founder's Club Member ixtow's Avatar
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    I'm a 'run towards the fire' kind of guy. I wouldn't have bailed. I don't call your actions wrong. But it left someone else to deal with it who was likely inadequately prepared. I care about such things.
    "The fourth man's dark, accusing song had scratched our comfort hard and long..."
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    Quote Originally Posted by ixtow View Post
    I'm a 'run towards the fire' kind of guy. I wouldn't have bailed. I don't call your actions wrong. But it left someone else to deal with it who was likely inadequately prepared. I care about such things.
    You never know if the "assailant" has good cause to be upset. This example sounds more like a guy who is on the edge and mad at anyone he might see- BUT, maybe some guy who just assaulted his wife is hiding around the gas station. You never know. I would only be prepared to engage. My body language would attempt to say "Leave me alone and I'll return the favor"

    Of course if he cruises on by you and then attacks someone like in that link above then quick intervention may be entirely appropriate.
    "In the beginning of a change the patriot is a scarce man, and brave, and hated and scorned. When his cause succeeds, the timid join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot." - Mark Twain

    I don't bother with pragmatic statistics while discussing my constitutional rights. The issue is far less complex, to me. Free men should be able to act like free men.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by CDT COX View Post
    Still a bit shook up right now

    I get off from work around 9:30 or so, its always dark when I do. Well, about 20 minutes ago I got out of my Jeep at the gas station. I put my card in the pump and heard some yelling. While I was filling up, across the street from the gas station a big black dude was yelling toward the gas station F-this, F-that, I dont give a F, I'll F all you MF's up, ect. The pump I was at is closet to the road. Anyway the guy was mad as hell about something, or someone at the gas station. He took a step out in the street coming towards us. I hung up the nozzle. As he kept getting closer I was moving between the pump and Jeep around towards the back so he couldnt see me, or my sidearm. As soon he was past my Jeep, probably 30 or 40 feet from the hood, I got in and got out of there quick! I dont know what happened after that, but I'm glad he didnt see me or come towards me.

    Ugh I need a hot shower or something thanks for listening
    Hi, curious where in "the county" that happened???

  20. #20
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    I'm one of those who will stick around and help other people kind of guys too. But you really have to assess the situation before acting. I was leaving a Wal Mart once and I hear a commotion behind me and turned to see what was going on and saw three big people pushing and shoving each other. As I was assessing what was going on I realized it was a man and woman after another woman. This being an unfair match I took off my jacket and was just about to take the guy out of the equations when I noticed two other guys running up. Turns out the man and woman were trying to stop a shoplifter. They were not wearing anything to show they were store security and I was about to help out the criminal. I've done lost prevention before and we wore badges around our neck that we pulled out before stopping someone.

    This gave me a good refresh lesson on situational awareness. Things may not be what they appear at first. Know what's going on before you make a move.
    Walk softly and carry a large caliber.

  21. #21
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    A lot to consider

    As others have pointed out you have to consider that things may be different than they appear. Also, while I agree that an unarmed person can definitely be a threat to your life, I'm not so confident D.A.'s, juries and judges would feel. I'm pretty pessimistic given the common perception of guns in our society. The headline the next day would probably be:
    Gunman Claims Self-Defense In Shooting Unarmed Man

    It would probably be uphill from there. Even if we are making sound decisions based off of well thought out risk management assessment, you have to consider the criminal and civil ramifications. Of course the arrest, bail, loss of firearm, trial, legal fees and hassle of the criminal case would be a nightmare even if you were acquitted and got your weapon back (a year and a half later). You could be hit with a civil suit by his wife for taking their family's only means for income. You'd probably win that hands down but you still have the legal hassle and bill.

    Point is, even if you would be justified to use lethal force based on risk assessment, unfortunately the law may not agree so I say ALWAYS avoid it unless it is ABSOLUTELY necessary. I like Dreamers suggestion of less than lethal tools as an option in such cases. Spray, taze, retreat do whatever you have to before shooting an unarmed person. I'd run down the street screaming help before I face a murder charge and put my self, wife and child in the situation of not having me for 20 years, if the person was unarmed.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by jp49911 View Post
    I'd run down the street screaming help before I face a murder charge
    My thoughts exactly. I don't mind getting "punked out" by someone who made me retreat backwards as far as I could.
    "In the beginning of a change the patriot is a scarce man, and brave, and hated and scorned. When his cause succeeds, the timid join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot." - Mark Twain

    I don't bother with pragmatic statistics while discussing my constitutional rights. The issue is far less complex, to me. Free men should be able to act like free men.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rdinatal View Post
    Don't take the safety off till you clear. This should be automatic : Clear holster then saftey off.

    -R
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zYvAx...ure=socblog_th
    Last edited by hotrod8812; 07-04-2011 at 04:38 PM.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by rdinatal View Post
    Don't take the safety off till you clear. This should be automatic : Clear holster then saftey off.

    -R
    I am really glad I don't have to make these types of decisions, I carry guns that don't have safeties, or I don't ever put them on.

    That means I don't have to worry about this choice

  25. #25
    Regular Member Ricky's Avatar
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    Funny but serious also...He was man enough to admit his mistake.In reality that could happen to anyone o us in training or the real thing.....

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