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Thread: Letter to an anti-gun business.

  1. #1
    Regular Member Polynikes's Avatar
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    Letter to an anti-gun business.

    Encountered a "No Firearms" sign while taking the kids to a Chuck E Cheese tonight (google seems to confirm that this is a company wide policy) and wrote the following letter to corporate as soon as I got home. Let me know what you think.

    "On the evening of June 29th, my family visited your location in Colorado Springs on 5156 N. Academy Blvd. Our group consisted of me, my wife and our two young children. With us was my mother-in-law, who had offered to take us all out as a treat for the kids. Had it not been for her offer and my desire not to disappoint my children, I would not have given your business my patronage. Let me explain why. As I approached the doors to your business I was greeted by a large posted sign that read: "No Firearms, Violators will be treated as trespassers." My wife and I are both Concealed Carry Permit holders, meaning that we are verified law-abiding citizens. We have submitted fingerprints and passed extensive background checks as well as successfully completed firearms training and safety classes, meaning that we both know proper and safe weapons handling and all relevant state laws pertaining to the carry and use of firearms. We are clearly law-abiding citizens and have made the conscious decision to both protect our family and exercise our 2nd Amendment Constitutional rights.

    By prohibiting all weapons, you have disarmed and made helpless anyone who enters your store—except for criminals, who won’t follow your policy anyway. In essence, you’ve made your store more dangerous for patrons who carry legally...and safer for criminals. If a true emergency situation were to arise, I would not be comfortable trusting the lives of my wife and children to the young people who comprise your staff.

    Please consider changing your policy. You have chosen to ban firearms in your store and violate a Constitutional right belonging to the citizens of this country. I would assume that your policy is not to discriminate against customers based on religion or infringe upon their freedom of speech, so I am confused as to why your company has decided it is appropriate to deprive law-abiding citizens of the ability to protect themselves and their families. As such, my family and I have chosen to take our guns, and our money, to your competitors and spread the word about your corporate policies to the numerous groups we are members of, both in person and online, until such time as you choose to allow law-abiding armed citizens in your establishment."
    "Liberty lies in the hearts of men and women; when it dies there, no constitution, no law, no court can save it; no constitution, no law, no court can even do much to help it." - Judge Learned Hand

  2. #2
    Founder's Club Member thebigsd's Avatar
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    Very well written! Let us know how they respond.
    "When seconds count between living or dying, the police are only minutes away."

  3. #3
    Regular Member M-Taliesin's Avatar
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    Howdy Amigo!
    Looks like a well written opinion to me.

    Now I'm really glad that I've never spent a single dime at any of their locations.

    They might be a bit brittle because of a shooting some years ago in Aurora or Denver. Don't recall the details, except it was a Chuckie Cheeze joint. Several people were shot by an armed assailant. Murdered. Guess they think posting their firearms policy will prevent a similar incident in the future. Instead, they're only making certain a criminal can feel comfortable victimizing their patrons without fear they'll shoot back!

    Nice going on their part.

    Blessings,
    M-Taliesin

  4. #4
    Regular Member Orion's Avatar
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    /sarcasm on

    "But think about the children"

    /sarcasm off

    I look forward to seeing what type of response you get back. Doubtful that this one letter will change things, but depending on what they write back perhaps an organized letter writing campaign might show them the error of their ways!

  5. #5
    Regular Member RandallFlagg's Avatar
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    That was an awesome letter. Please keep us posted as to their reply?
    Why do I have a bar in my home? Because it's cheaper to stock a bar than to get a DUI.

  6. #6
    Regular Member Polynikes's Avatar
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    Their company website said I could expect a reply within 48 hours, so we'll see.
    "Liberty lies in the hearts of men and women; when it dies there, no constitution, no law, no court can save it; no constitution, no law, no court can even do much to help it." - Judge Learned Hand

  7. #7
    Regular Member Gunslinger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by M-Taliesin View Post
    Howdy Amigo!
    Looks like a well written opinion to me.

    Now I'm really glad that I've never spent a single dime at any of their locations.

    They might be a bit brittle because of a shooting some years ago in Aurora or Denver. Don't recall the details, except it was a Chuckie Cheeze joint. Several people were shot by an armed assailant. Murdered. Guess they think posting their firearms policy will prevent a similar incident in the future. Instead, they're only making certain a criminal can feel comfortable victimizing their patrons without fear they'll shoot back!

    Nice going on their part.

    Blessings,
    M-Taliesin
    Banning law abiding citizens from exercising State and Federal rights will keep the bad guys out. Makes sense to me.
    We need more gun free zones to help the killers set up their itineraries.
    "For any man who sheds his blood with me this day shall be my brother...And gentlemen now abed shall think themselves accursed, they were not here, and hold their manhoods cheap whilst any speaks who fought with us on Crispin's day." Henry V

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    Regular Member entartet17's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by M-Taliesin View Post
    They might be a bit brittle because of a shooting some years ago in Aurora or Denver. Don't recall the details, except it was a Chuckie Cheeze joint.
    It was in Aurora (at the location I used to frequent as a kid). The guy who did it is Nathan Dunlap and he's currently sitting on death row.
    "There are those who still think they are holding the pass against a revolution that may be coming up the road. But they are gazing in the wrong direction. The revolution is behind them. It went by in the Night of Depression, singing songs of freedom" -- Garet Garrett, The Revolution Was (1938)

  9. #9
    Regular Member fjpro2a's Avatar
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    That was a really great letter sent to Chuck E Cheese. I am anxiously awaiting their reply. Make sure to keep all of us informed.

  10. #10
    Campaign Veteran since9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by M-Taliesin View Post
    They might be a bit brittle because of a shooting some years ago in Aurora or Denver. Don't recall the details, except it was a Chuckie Cheeze joint. Several people were shot by an armed assailant. ... Guess they think posting their firearms policy will prevent a similar incident in the future. Instead, they're only making certain a criminal can feel comfortable victimizing their patrons without fear they'll shoot back!

    Nice going on their part.
    Makes about as much sense as a submarine with a screen door, doesn't it? No more or less effective as a "No Firearms" sign is at keeping out armed criminals.

    By the way, Polynikes, that was a good letter.
    Last edited by since9; 07-06-2011 at 12:24 AM.
    The First protects the Second, and the Second protects the First. Together, they protect the rest of our Bill of Rights and our United States Constitution, and help We the People protect ourselves in the spirit of our Declaration of Independence.

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    Campaign Veteran since9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Polynikes View Post
    Their company website said I could expect a reply within 48 hours, so we'll see.
    It's now July 5th. You should have heard from them last Friday; today at the very latest.
    The First protects the Second, and the Second protects the First. Together, they protect the rest of our Bill of Rights and our United States Constitution, and help We the People protect ourselves in the spirit of our Declaration of Independence.

  12. #12
    Regular Member Polynikes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by since9 View Post
    It's now July 5th. You should have heard from them last Friday; today at the very latest.
    I finally got a reply from a Lisa McDaniel in their Risk Department. It was basically a blatant dismissal, "We appreciate your concerns but are within our rights to prohibit weapons on our premises" type of thing.

    I'll post the actual email later tonight and my response to her, to see if can get any sort of discourse going. Anyone else interested in chiming in can reach her at lmcdaniel@cecentertainment.com
    "Liberty lies in the hearts of men and women; when it dies there, no constitution, no law, no court can save it; no constitution, no law, no court can even do much to help it." - Judge Learned Hand

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    Founder's Club Member thebigsd's Avatar
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    Thanks for posting the contact info, I will also send a letter depending on her next response. She needs to offer you a logical reason. (there isn't one but she could at least try.)
    "When seconds count between living or dying, the police are only minutes away."

  14. #14
    Regular Member Polynikes's Avatar
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    To those that have been following this, I apologize for the delay in posting Chuck E. Cheese's response.

    > Dear Mr. ******;
    >
    > We are in receipt of your email below and appreciate your concerns. Your email is being forwarded to the appropriate department for review. As you are aware, it is CEC Entertainment's right to prohibit the carrying of weapons, concealed or otherwise, onto their premises.
    >
    > We appreciate any and all input from our guests. If you have any further concerns, please do not hesitate to contact me. My contact information is below.
    >

    That was July 5th. Here's my response:

    Dear Ms. McDaniel,

    I appreciate the time that you have taken to respond thus far, and I certainly do not dispute the fact that it is indeed the right of your company to institute upon your own properties whatever policies you see fit. However, I would kindly request that you provide additional information as to what actual reasons CEC Entertainment may have for creating a significantly more dangerous environment for anyone who enters your establishments. Other than posting an anti-firearm sign at your door, could you please elaborate what steps your company has taken to ensure the safety of your guests. What procedures and safety protocols are in place to ensure that those who would use their weapons illegally (those who likely wouldn't give your sign the slightest attention) are stopped before they can bring harm to anyone on your premises? A quick search of your company on the internet coupled with the words "shooting" or "violence" would indicate to any reader that the policies you have in place to prohibit law-abiding citizens from protecting themselves have a clear history of not stopping those who have bad intentions.

    Does your company expect law enforcement officers, or other government agents to disarm when entering your premises? I would assume not, so it is rather unfortunate that citizens who have undergone the same background checks, similar, or in many cases, more extensive training and are simply seeking to actively protect their loved ones are denied the right to do so when on your premises. Just as CEC Entertainment is within their rights to ban firearms, I'm sure you understand that citizens who object to those policies are well within their rights to voice their opinions and notify others of your practices. Please be aware that until such a time as CEC Entertainment considers allowing guests to ensure their own safety in a lawful manner, your company will be negatively reflected on numerous 2nd Amendment advocacy sites and will be actively listed among a collection of businesses that have similar policies, so that law-abiding gun owners can avoid contributing their money to those who do not support the Constitution of this country.




    What do you think? Too much?
    "Liberty lies in the hearts of men and women; when it dies there, no constitution, no law, no court can save it; no constitution, no law, no court can even do much to help it." - Judge Learned Hand

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    Regular Member PikesPeakMtnMan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Polynikes View Post
    What do you think? Too much?
    Nope, I like it! Very well written...I think I'll have to use it as a template if I ever decide I have to write a similar letter.
    One day your life is going to flash before your eyes, make it worth watching.

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    Regular Member Cesar A's Avatar
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    It is not enough!!!

    The letters are great, especially the 2nd one... I agree with all your views and I still do not understand why bussinesses ban us citizens from carrying. I can understand a no display of weapons sign but CC definately not! When should put more pressure in the company and hopefully we can force them to review thier stance on this issue like Starbuck had to do. Until then I suggest we do our best to "black list" them.

    Airborne!

  17. #17
    Regular Member M-Taliesin's Avatar
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    Howdy Polynikes!
    I think their position is a knee jerk reaction to a nasty shooting incident in Aurora area. Let us imagine, just for a minute, that their policy was in force before that incident took place. They had their nifty little "no firearms" sign posted clearly at the entrance. The killer arrives, sees the sign, and his intention to murder people appears thwarted? Unlikely, and illogical. He sees that sign and why should he worry about a trespassing rap when he's intending to kill people? Oh, a murder rap is one thing, but whoa... trespassing? Gimme a medium sausage to go please!

    Or maybe the shooting incident in Torrence California would not have taken place if only the shooter had been forestalled by the "no firearms" sign on the door. What would be the killer's thinking: "Oh, nuts! I so wanted to shoot somebody, but that sign says I can't have a firearm around here. Guess I'm gonna hafta use a knife!" Really... does that sound like something anywhere near the realm of reality?

    Tell ya what, amigo! It is well that you wrote to them because you presented your inquiry in a respectful and reasaonable manner. I don't think I'd have been anywhere near so tactful as you were. I'd have given them a huge chunk of my mind (assuming I cared anything whatsoever for Chuck E. Cheese!) but would have been much more direct and perhaps confrontational. You, amigo, done good! Round of applause for the gentleman please!

    I personally believe the Chuck E. Cheese organization is a communist plot to indoctrinate kids at a young and impressionable age to be mice.
    The old question "Are you a man or a mouse?". Why is Chuck E Cheese logo a mouse? See the connection? They want kids to grow up trained to be mice so they'll be unable to fight back against the rats! Their motives are suspect, and their focus on young kids disturbing.

    Just my humble opinion. I won't go near their establishments, and I routinely discourage others from doing so either.

    Blessings,
    M-Taliesin

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    Quote Originally Posted by Polynikes View Post
    A quick search of your company on the internet coupled with the words "shooting" or "violence" would indicate to any reader that the policies you have in place to prohibit law-abiding citizens from protecting themselves have a clear history of not stopping those who have bad intentions.
    Nice touch.


    Quote Originally Posted by M-Taliesin
    Or maybe the shooting incident in Torrence California would not have taken place if only the shooter had been forestalled by the "no firearms" sign on the door. What would be the killer's thinking: "Oh, nuts! I so wanted to shoot somebody, but that sign says I can't have a firearm around here. Guess I'm gonna hafta use a knife!" Really... does that sound like something anywhere near the realm of reality?
    I think the unfortunate reality is that the sign and policy are more a CYA. Picture the aftermath of a shooting as their internal legal team gets ready for wrongful death suits muttering "Please, please, please, tell me that the store put up the 'No Firearms' sticker". It gives them the plausible deniability of saying, "Well, we said, 'no guns'. It ain't our fault if they didn't listen." The prosecution would have a field day with "You didn't even do the MINIMUM deterrent." (Whereas if it were my store my "deterrent" would be 2-for-1 Cokes for all LACs.)

    Similarly, I think a lot of businesses banning OC are much more about $$ than their customers' "safety". The odds that sheeple will take their business elsewhere is greater than either OCers or the chance of preventable violence.

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    Regular Member M-Taliesin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mahkagari View Post
    (Whereas if it were my store my "deterrent" would be 2-for-1 Cokes for all LACs.)
    Howdy Mahkagari!
    I like your style. That'd be the place I'd take the halflings!

    Quote Originally Posted by mahkagari View Post
    Similarly, I think a lot of businesses banning OC are much more about $$ than their customers' "safety". The odds that sheeple will take their business elsewhere is greater than either OCers or the chance of preventable violence.
    Aw, screw it. Break down and take the little ruggers to Casa Bonita!
    Oh wait... what's their policy?

    Blessings,
    M-Taliesin

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    Quote Originally Posted by M-Taliesin View Post
    Aw, screw it. Break down and take the little ruggers to Casa Bonita!
    Oh wait... what's their policy?
    Moot point, they're in Denver.

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    Regular Member M-Taliesin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mahkagari View Post
    Moot point, they're in Denver.
    Howdy Mahkagari!
    I believe it isn't all that moot. You can still get a CCW permit in Denver and I think that's respected at Casa Bonita.
    I know that it just don't matter at Chuck E. Cheese at all. They don't want any firearms at their locations, period!
    Besides, they have gunfights in Casa Bonita several times a day, every single day! Yeah, they're blanks, but they
    are also guns!

    How do you tell a customer they can't CC a firearm when guns are going off inside?

    Then there's them cliff divers to contend with! Oye!!!

    Blessings,
    M-Taliesin

  22. #22
    State Researcher HankT's Avatar
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    The June 29th letter was good, except for a major flaw. You said, "You have chosen to ban firearms in your store and violate a Constitutional right..."

    That is not correct. As CEC pointed out in its reply, it is asserting its own property rights. an assertion which you state agreement with.

    Your July 5th letter is very good. Have you received a reply?

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    Post We need an organized campaign

    Quote Originally Posted by Cesar A View Post
    The letters are great, especially the 2nd one... I agree with all your views and I still do not understand why businesses ban us citizens from carrying. I can understand a no display of weapons sign but CC definitely not! When should put more pressure in the company and hopefully we can force them to review their stance on this issue like Starbucks had to do. Until then I suggest we do our best to "black list" them.

    Airborne!
    You are right. It is not enough. CEC will not change their policies over the complaints of one man. I've seen (ineffective and outdated) web sites that list locations that post such signage (In Texas that is a 30.06 sign), but I have not seen anyone set up a bonafide campaign to educate and pressure such companies. We don't want and will not stand for such liberal anti-gun policies in our communities. We need to empathize with, educate on, and then eradicate such policies in our local businesses.

    We need an organized campaign against businesses like CEC, which both allow access by the general public, and also ban the lawful carry of weapons without also providing trained armed guards. Such a campaign, in my opinion, would have a web site dedicated, with several formats of form letters, and lists of target companies with their contact information. It would contain educational materials and scripted responses. And it would contain a count of individuals who are pledging to boycott their establishments. Furthermore, it might provide these companies with an incentive for policy change, other than just the lifting of the boycott.

    I was in communications with such a company recently and their reason for the policy was "Insurance says we have to or they will raise the rates". In many states, the law provides indemnification (immunity) for businesses on who's property a CHL uses their weapon. The company literally can't be held accountable. Therefore the insurance rates do not go up for allowing guns. I even read an online discussion where a State Farm rep confirmed that they did not raise rates for allowing lawful carry (in Texas).

    Then again, liberals don't tend to listen to reason, even when it is clear and cut & dry. They listen to emotion. Maybe we ask them "How many children must die at the hand of a criminal rampage shooter until you let a trained, background-checked and licensed handgun owner protect them?"

    Someone, maybe with NRA backing, needs to step up and do this. Next time you get an NRA letter begging for money, send them a letter back, asking what they are willing to do for it.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by pmg2010 View Post
    We need an organized campaign against businesses like CEC, which both allow access by the general public, and also ban the lawful carry of weapons without also providing trained armed guards. .
    Actually what we need to do is pressure our state reps to pass a law making companies that allow access by the general public to have one trained armed security guard on duty plus another one for every 250 people that are allowed in the premises by fire code - with an exception for companies who allow their customers and employees to legally carry. Maybe that will both provide financial incentive to allow carry and protect the rights of both parties.

  25. #25
    Regular Member M-Taliesin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pmg2010 View Post
    Then again, liberals don't tend to listen to reason, even when it is clear and cut & dry. They listen to emotion. Maybe we ask them "How many children must die at the hand of a criminal rampage shooter until you let a trained, background-checked and licensed handgun owner protect them?"
    Howdy Amigo!
    This isn't about liberal vs. conservative! It IS about what is right or wrong.
    The simple fact is, their policy is wrong. Their ideological perspective is irrelevant.
    How do you know that CEC is a liberal organization? How do you know how their upper management vote?
    The insertion of "liberal" is nonsensical and offensive.

    I work for a company that does not allow CCW holders to carry on the job. This, despite the fact that
    employees have often been robbed, beaten, hospitalized, attacked and badly injured. Are they liberals?
    No. They are Republicans. It is easy to look up and see how much money they've contributed to Republican
    campaigns and every candidate they've contributed to is a Republican. In addition, they also have made
    hefty contributions to the RNC. But they do not allow carry by CCW holders who work for them. Does this
    mean they are actually liberals?

    Please don't paint 'liberals' with the broad brush of personal bias and prejudice, because not all liberals are
    anti-gun. You talk of presenting a united front, and right out of the chute, try to drive a wedge between
    gun rights advocates based on your ideological stance. It ain't about liberal or conservative, but about
    right or wrong. Let's stick to the fact that the policy of this corporation is wrong and address the facts,
    not the false flag that it is some sort of liberal plot driving their corporate agenda! Focus on center mass.

    Blessings,
    M-Taliesin
    Last edited by M-Taliesin; 07-19-2011 at 12:36 PM.

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