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Letter to an anti-gun business.

M-Taliesin

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 22, 2011
Messages
1,504
Location
Aurora, Colorado
Moot point, they're in Denver.

Howdy Mahkagari!
I believe it isn't all that moot. You can still get a CCW permit in Denver and I think that's respected at Casa Bonita.
I know that it just don't matter at Chuck E. Cheese at all. They don't want any firearms at their locations, period!
Besides, they have gunfights in Casa Bonita several times a day, every single day! Yeah, they're blanks, but they
are also guns!

How do you tell a customer they can't CC a firearm when guns are going off inside?

Then there's them cliff divers to contend with! Oye!!!

Blessings,
M-Taliesin
 

HankT

State Researcher
Joined
Feb 20, 2007
Messages
6,215
Location
Invisible Mode
The June 29th letter was good, except for a major flaw. You said, "You have chosen to ban firearms in your store and violate a Constitutional right..."

That is not correct. As CEC pointed out in its reply, it is asserting its own property rights. an assertion which you state agreement with.

Your July 5th letter is very good. Have you received a reply?
 

pmg2010

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 2, 2011
Messages
13
Location
DFW
We need an organized campaign

The letters are great, especially the 2nd one... I agree with all your views and I still do not understand why businesses ban us citizens from carrying. I can understand a no display of weapons sign but CC definitely not! When should put more pressure in the company and hopefully we can force them to review their stance on this issue like Starbucks had to do. Until then I suggest we do our best to "black list" them.

Airborne!

You are right. It is not enough. CEC will not change their policies over the complaints of one man. I've seen (ineffective and outdated) web sites that list locations that post such signage (In Texas that is a 30.06 sign), but I have not seen anyone set up a bonafide campaign to educate and pressure such companies. We don't want and will not stand for such liberal anti-gun policies in our communities. We need to empathize with, educate on, and then eradicate such policies in our local businesses.

We need an organized campaign against businesses like CEC, which both allow access by the general public, and also ban the lawful carry of weapons without also providing trained armed guards. Such a campaign, in my opinion, would have a web site dedicated, with several formats of form letters, and lists of target companies with their contact information. It would contain educational materials and scripted responses. And it would contain a count of individuals who are pledging to boycott their establishments. Furthermore, it might provide these companies with an incentive for policy change, other than just the lifting of the boycott.

I was in communications with such a company recently and their reason for the policy was "Insurance says we have to or they will raise the rates". In many states, the law provides indemnification (immunity) for businesses on who's property a CHL uses their weapon. The company literally can't be held accountable. Therefore the insurance rates do not go up for allowing guns. I even read an online discussion where a State Farm rep confirmed that they did not raise rates for allowing lawful carry (in Texas).

Then again, liberals don't tend to listen to reason, even when it is clear and cut & dry. They listen to emotion. Maybe we ask them "How many children must die at the hand of a criminal rampage shooter until you let a trained, background-checked and licensed handgun owner protect them?"

Someone, maybe with NRA backing, needs to step up and do this. Next time you get an NRA letter begging for money, send them a letter back, asking what they are willing to do for it.
 

pmg2010

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 2, 2011
Messages
13
Location
DFW
We need an organized campaign against businesses like CEC, which both allow access by the general public, and also ban the lawful carry of weapons without also providing trained armed guards. .

Actually what we need to do is pressure our state reps to pass a law making companies that allow access by the general public to have one trained armed security guard on duty plus another one for every 250 people that are allowed in the premises by fire code - with an exception for companies who allow their customers and employees to legally carry. Maybe that will both provide financial incentive to allow carry and protect the rights of both parties.
 

M-Taliesin

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 22, 2011
Messages
1,504
Location
Aurora, Colorado
Then again, liberals don't tend to listen to reason, even when it is clear and cut & dry. They listen to emotion. Maybe we ask them "How many children must die at the hand of a criminal rampage shooter until you let a trained, background-checked and licensed handgun owner protect them?"

Howdy Amigo!
This isn't about liberal vs. conservative! It IS about what is right or wrong.
The simple fact is, their policy is wrong. Their ideological perspective is irrelevant.
How do you know that CEC is a liberal organization? How do you know how their upper management vote?
The insertion of "liberal" is nonsensical and offensive.

I work for a company that does not allow CCW holders to carry on the job. This, despite the fact that
employees have often been robbed, beaten, hospitalized, attacked and badly injured. Are they liberals?
No. They are Republicans. It is easy to look up and see how much money they've contributed to Republican
campaigns and every candidate they've contributed to is a Republican. In addition, they also have made
hefty contributions to the RNC. But they do not allow carry by CCW holders who work for them. Does this
mean they are actually liberals?

Please don't paint 'liberals' with the broad brush of personal bias and prejudice, because not all liberals are
anti-gun. You talk of presenting a united front, and right out of the chute, try to drive a wedge between
gun rights advocates based on your ideological stance. It ain't about liberal or conservative, but about
right or wrong. Let's stick to the fact that the policy of this corporation is wrong and address the facts,
not the false flag that it is some sort of liberal plot driving their corporate agenda! Focus on center mass.

Blessings,
M-Taliesin
 
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Polynikes

Regular Member
Joined
May 18, 2011
Messages
182
Location
Colorado Springs
The June 29th letter was good, except for a major flaw. You said, "You have chosen to ban firearms in your store and violate a Constitutional right..."

That is not correct. As CEC pointed out in its reply, it is asserting its own property rights. an assertion which you state agreement with.

Your July 5th letter is very good. Have you received a reply?

I'm going to have to respectfully disagree. The fact that a party has the right to set whatever rules they like on their own property does not negate rights granted by the Constitution. Simply because CEC entertainment can post a "No Firearms" sign on their premises that does not mean that my rights aren't being impaired. Look at it this way; what if they were to post signs saying "No religious apparel" in order to keep people from wearing cross necklaces or other religious symbols? Sure, they could do that. It's their house, and subsequently, they make the rules. That doesn't mean that the rights of others aren't going to be ridden roughshod over in the process. That's just my $.02

Btw, if they did post a sign similar to that, how long do you think it would take the various religious groups to cry foul in as public a manner as possible? Unfortunately, we gun owners have become so used to the public trampling of our rights, that we often just shrug and go away instead of raising our voices.


...and I'm still waiting to hear back from them, but I won't be holding my breath. ;)
 

ixtow

Founder's Club Member
Joined
Nov 25, 2006
Messages
5,038
Location
Suwannee County, FL
It is a minor adjustment:

Dear Ms. McDaniel,

I appreciate the time that you have taken to respond thus far, and I certainly do not dispute the fact that it is indeed the right of your company to institute upon your own properties whatever policies you see fit. However, I would kindly request that you provide additional information as to what actual reasons CEC Entertainment may have for creating a significantly more dangerous environment for anyone who enters your establishments. Other than posting an anti-firearm sign at your door, could you please elaborate what steps your company has taken to ensure the safety of your guests. What procedures and safety protocols are in place to ensure that those who would use their weapons illegally (those who likely wouldn't give your sign the slightest attention) are stopped before they can bring harm to anyone on your premises? A quick search of your company on the internet coupled with the words "shooting" or "violence" would indicate to any reader that the policies you have in place to prohibit law-abiding citizens from protecting themselves have a clear history of inviting violence and death instead of preventing it..

Does your company expect law enforcement officers, or other government agents to disarm when entering your premises? I would assume not, so it is rather unfortunate that citizens who have undergone the same background checks, similar, or in many cases, more extensive training and are simply seeking to actively protect their loved ones are denied the right to do so when on your premises. Just as CEC Entertainment is within their rights to ban firearms, I'm sure you understand that citizens who object to those policies are well within their rights to voice their opinions and notify others of your practices. Please be aware that until such a time as CEC Entertainment considers allowing guests to ensure their own safety in a lawful manner, your company will be negatively reflected on numerous 2nd Amendment advocacy sites and will be actively listed among a collection of businesses that have similar policies, so that law-abiding gun owners can avoid contributing their money to those who do not support the Constitution of this country.
 

MGoduto

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 24, 2008
Messages
107
Location
New Britain, Connecticut, USA
Actually what we need to do is pressure our state reps to pass a law making companies that allow access by the general public to have one trained armed security guard on duty plus another one for every 250 people that are allowed in the premises by fire code - with an exception for companies who allow their customers and employees to legally carry. Maybe that will both provide financial incentive to allow carry and protect the rights of both parties.


I seem to remember that a bill was proposed a few years back in Arizona, during a legislative session, that established liability if a business prohibited lawfully-carried firearms and a customer of said business was injured during a criminal attack. I don't think it went very far in the legislative process, but it was a hell of an idea!!
 

rushcreek2

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 27, 2010
Messages
909
Location
Colorado Springs. CO
Having been in "Chuckie Cheese" with grandkids many times for the Birthday events - I will have to differ with the overwhelming sentiment against the Corp's policy.

You have children running amuck in every direction, bumping into other custmers child or adult.

This is a classic situtation for CONCEALED CARRY.

There is NO WAY that this corporation is going to change their policy. Live with it, don't go there, or CONCEAL when there. You folks are butting your heads against a brick wall here.

This is where DISCRETION comes into play. Use a little common sense. Conceal the gun !
 

TheLittleMan

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 24, 2011
Messages
40
Location
Denver, Co
Having been in "Chuckie Cheese" with grandkids many times for the Birthday events - I will have to differ with the overwhelming sentiment against the Corp's policy.

You have children running amuck in every direction, bumping into other custmers child or adult.

This is a classic situtation for CONCEALED CARRY.

There is NO WAY that this corporation is going to change their policy. Live with it, don't go there, or CONCEAL when there. You folks are butting your heads against a brick wall here.

This is where DISCRETION comes into play. Use a little common sense. Conceal the gun !

They don't allow concealed carry either. Their policy against guns is what the issue is. Sure we could conceal and "sneak" it by them but we shouldn't have to do that. They should respect our right to carry any way we see fit and IF they didn't have a "NO FIREARMS" policy I'm sure most of us who would visit Chuck-E-Cheese would conceal and show discretion. It's just the principal of the matter.
 

Polynikes

Regular Member
Joined
May 18, 2011
Messages
182
Location
Colorado Springs
Having been in "Chuckie Cheese" with grandkids many times for the Birthday events - I will have to differ with the overwhelming sentiment against the Corp's policy.

You have children running amuck in every direction, bumping into other custmers child or adult.

This is a classic situtation for CONCEALED CARRY.

There is NO WAY that this corporation is going to change their policy. Live with it, don't go there, or CONCEAL when there. You folks are butting your heads against a brick wall here.

This is where DISCRETION comes into play. Use a little common sense. Conceal the gun !

At the risk of sounding a bit rude, I believe you just missed the entire point of this post. CEC Entertainment (Chuck E. Cheese) has posted signs stating that firearms, regardless of whether carried openly or concealed, are not allowed on their property. Discretion and common sense have nothing to do with it. If you wish to cross the threshold to their establishment, you will do so unarmed. You may be comfortable with this. I am not.

Sure, there may be little chance of the company changing their policy, but like I essentially stated in an earlier post, there must be some of us willing to voice our opinions, because so many others are willing to just bow their heads and accept this sort of treatment simply because they don't possess the fortitude to defend their Constitutional rights.

On a final note, perhaps you failed to notice that at no point in my letters did I specify whether I was speaking specifically about open or concealed carry (though I did mention that I was a CCW permit holder.) There was no need to differentiate between carry methods because, as previously stated, the company forbids the carry of any firearm on their premises. By the way though, I was carrying IWB that day and likely would not have even been noticed had I chosen to ignore the sign and carry my hand gun inside their building.
 

since9

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Jan 14, 2010
Messages
6,964
Location
Colorado Springs, Colorado, USA
I finally got a reply from a Lisa McDaniel in their Risk Department. It was basically a blatant dismissal, "We appreciate your concerns but are within our rights to prohibit weapons on our premises" type of thing.

I'd probably have responded with a "Yes, you are, just as I am within my rights to yank any and all future business with your organization for creating a gun-free-zone (GFZ), a dangerous situation which, like Virginia Tech, Columbine, Norway and other GFZ massacre locations, act as a magnet for crazies who know they can get away with widespread slaughter. Sorry, but I'll not put myself or my family in harm's way by frequenting your dangerous, self-defense-deprived, GFZ establishment."

Hmm... As I sit here thinking about it, I think that's exactly what I'll write to Cheesy Chucks.
 

Polynikes

Regular Member
Joined
May 18, 2011
Messages
182
Location
Colorado Springs
Still no response to my second letter. I think they've just gone ahead and written me off. The company has been listed as an anti-gun establishment both of Rocky Mountain Gun Owners merchant list and FriendorFoe.us. I think that's probably about as far as I can take this alone.
 

bogidu

Guest
Joined
Jul 11, 2009
Messages
120
Location
Pueblo West, Colorado, USA
So, I have to ask . . .

"No Firearms, Violators will be treated as trespassers."

If you're legally ccw, and somehow you get 'outed' (printing, whatever) how do they treat trespassers? You would be asked to leave, correct? Or do they just immediately call the police and charge you with trespassing without giving you the opportunity to voluntarily leave?
 

Polynikes

Regular Member
Joined
May 18, 2011
Messages
182
Location
Colorado Springs
"No Firearms, Violators will be treated as trespassers."

If you're legally ccw, and somehow you get 'outed' (printing, whatever) how do they treat trespassers? You would be asked to leave, correct? Or do they just immediately call the police and charge you with trespassing without giving you the opportunity to voluntarily leave?

I don't know, and I honestly have no desire to find out. If a place posts a No Firearms sign, and I must enter their premises I will respect their rights and disarm. I don't like it when my rights are trampled, so I do the best not to trample the rights of others. Then I will attempt to do as little business as possible with that company in the future, after, of course, explaining to them why they've lost my business and the potential business of others. That said, they would have never even seen my gun, if I'd not removed it. I CC very well. :lol:
 
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bnkrazy

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Sep 23, 2008
Messages
404
Location
Richmond, Virginia, USA
We need an organized campaign against businesses like CEC, which both allow access by the general public, and also ban the lawful carry of weapons without also providing trained armed guards. Such a campaign, in my opinion, would have a web site dedicated, with several formats of form letters, and lists of target companies with their contact information. It would contain educational materials and scripted responses. And it would contain a count of individuals who are pledging to boycott their establishments. Furthermore, it might provide these companies with an incentive for policy change, other than just the lifting of the boycott.

I'm currently in the process of updating the friendorfoe.us site, and would be inclined to expand the site to include these functions if someone would be willing to help manage the content/campaigns. If there is interest in this, I'm sure we can get something rolling.
 
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