Parents fighting Firearm Range next to school (Waterbury)

dcmdon · Jul 7, 2011

I explicitly said that nobody has ever been charged under this law. But that does not change anything.

Any Vermonter with a gun within 1000 ft of a school is most likely committing a felony. Its as simple as that. Its a bad law and everyone knows it. Even the antigun people who are intellectually honest will admit this is a bad law.

Crazy stuff. Remember this law was written and passed in a flurry of grandstanding in 1995 as a result of a highly publicized school shooting.

Joeygee23 · Jul 7, 2011

What a load of crap!

"You never know if a bullet will accidentally come through a wall. It could hit one of the kids over here,"

Kids are more likely to get struck by lightning or a drunk driver on the way to school.

Lenny Benedetto · Jul 8, 2011

A few of the news reports on the rally.

http://www.nbcconnecticut.com/news/local/Parents-Protest-Firing-Range-Near-School-125137159.html

http://www.necn.com/07/07/11/Sprague-Elementary-School/landing_newengland.html?blockID=539857

http://www.ctnow.com/videobeta/5b27f7f5-fe62-4bc4-85b2-82b4c87d6ffc/News/FoxCT-Waterb

Freiheit417 · Jul 8, 2011

beanoboy7 said:
Source: http://www.nbcconnecticut.com/news/...ange-Next-to-Elementary-School-124829799.html

"You never know if a bullet will accidentally come through a wall. It could hit one of the kids over here," said Brenda Farkash, a parent and resident of Waterbury.

You never know if a CAR will accidentally come through a wall. It could hit one of the kids over here.

Perhaps they should protest driveways, roads, or parking lots being placed next to schools.

http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2011/02/questions_linger_after_fatal_c.html
http://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/local/Woman-Drives-Car-Into-Preschool-Pins-Child-Under-Car.html

JoeSparky · Jul 8, 2011

Joeygee23 said:
"You never know if a bullet will accidentally come through a wall. It could hit one of the kids over here,"

Kids are more likely to get struck by lightning or a drunk driver on the way to school.

I will make a crazy assumptions here (and yes I know what it means to assume---- beast of burden of u and me)... If approved the range will be required to meet certain zoning and/or construction standards either by the State's requirement AND/or the insurance carrier's requirement. These standards would most likely MINIMIZE the risk of this "what if" occurring! and IF it does occur hold the person responsible as allowed by legitimate CONSTITUTIONAL law!

Don't get me started on my feelings about big brother sticking it's nose into what I can do with or on my PRIVATE PROPERTY!

jeremy05 · Jul 10, 2011

seems like a lot of fear mongoring (sp?) Anyways, I havent heard of any ranges haveing any rounds escape the traps, except that myth of the bullet that went over one range and into another striking some guy.

SO I use to work at a shooting range and I can tell you that if a person were to sneak in any Steel Core RIFLE ammo, it will eventually bust through the steel traps, ( if steel traps are being used ) and out the cinderblock wall in the back. Over enough time, and if the traps are not checked for damaged each night, I could see rounds getting out of the range and into the school zone. Although Highly unlikely and would need to have a high degree of Neglect on the Ranges Part.

We had 2 rifle lanes and they were Reinforced with extra material, and we did find a few "Fly" rounds behind the traps, from customers useing Ammo that we had banned "Steel Core"

Steel Core rounds were terrible for the traps in the back, but people still wanted to sneak it in. So sad, because it is a family business and cost lots of money to replace the traps.

JamesCanby · Jul 10, 2011

jeremy05 said:
(snip...)
SO I use to work at a shooting range and I can tell you that if a person were to sneak in any Steel Core RIFLE ammo, it will eventually bust through the steel traps, ( if steel traps are being used ) and out the cinderblock wall in the back. Over enough time, and if the traps are not checked for damaged each night, I could see rounds getting out of the range and into the school zone.
(snip...)

Did you miss the part of the article where it is explained that the range will be underground? Unless steel core rounds can not only

customcreationllc · Sep 22, 2011

Any news are the going to be putting a shooting range in Waterbury?

beanoboy7 · Sep 22, 2011

sometime during late fall

Dustin860 · Sep 23, 2011

Parents in Waterbury have a lot more to worry about than a gun range NEAR a school. Some of the things going on in the schools there would blow your mind.

SovereignAxe · Sep 23, 2011

dcmdon said:
I explicitly said that nobody has ever been charged under this law. But that does not change anything.

Any Vermonter with a gun within 1000 ft of a school is most likely committing a felony. Its as simple as that. Its a bad law and everyone knows it. Even the antigun people who are intellectually honest will admit this is a bad law.

Crazy stuff. Remember this law was written and passed in a flurry of grandstanding in 1995 as a result of a highly publicized school shooting.

I came in here to post this. While it's true that having a state issued permit is the exception, isn't still true that Vermonters or ANYONE from another state carrying into that range would be committing a felony?

dcmdon · Sep 23, 2011

Anyone in CT carrying a handgun without a CT permit for just about any reason even locked in a trunk, unloaded is committing a felony.

Grapeshot · Sep 23, 2011

dcmdon said:
Anyone in CT carrying a handgun without a CT permit for just about any reason even locked in a trunk, unloaded is committing a felony.

Would NOT appear so. Actually there seem to be a number of exceptions.

Sec. 29-35. Carrying of pistol or revolver without permit prohibited. Exceptions
--snip-- "transporting a pistol or revolver" means transporting a pistol or revolver that is unloaded and, if such pistol or revolver is being transported in a motor vehicle, is not readily accessible or directly accessible from the passenger compartment of the vehicle or, if such pistol or revolver is being transported in a motor vehicle that does not have a compartment separate from the passenger compartment, such pistol or revolver shall be contained in a locked container other than the glove compartment or console......

http://www.cga.ct.gov/2009/pub/chap529.htm#Sec29-35.htm

dcmdon · Sep 23, 2011

Thats where the words "just about" come into play.

Your citation actually means nothing. Its not fully in context. Read the statute. The exceptions are:

1) between your home or place of business and a dealer where you bought it or intend to sell it.
2) a gunsmith or dealer for repair
3) formal pistol or revolver training.

and when transported in the above instances ONLY, the method of transport you cited is legal.

In summary, for any normal use. You need a pistol permit.

For example, just so there's no confusion. You need a pistol permit to carry an unloaded gun, locked in your trunk to a range for target practice. It also doesn't matter if you are bringing it to a formal competition. You need a permit to be legal.

The other exception is if you are from another state and legally own a handgun, you can bring a handgun into CT to use in a formal shooting competition. But if you are a CT resident and the event is in CT, the competiton exemption doesn't apply.

Don

Grapeshot · Sep 23, 2011

dcmdon said:
Anyone in CT carrying a handgun without a CT permit for just about any reason even locked in a trunk, unloaded is committing a felony.

Grapeshot said:
Would NOT appear so. Actually there seem to be a number of exceptions.

Sec. 29-35. Carrying of pistol or revolver without permit prohibited. Exceptions
--snip-- "transporting a pistol or revolver" means transporting a pistol or revolver that is unloaded and, if such pistol or revolver is being transported in a motor vehicle, is not readily accessible or directly accessible from the passenger compartment of the vehicle or, if such pistol or revolver is being transported in a motor vehicle that does not have a compartment separate from the passenger compartment, such pistol or revolver shall be contained in a locked container other than the glove compartment or console......

http://www.cga.ct.gov/2009/pub/chap529.htm#Sec29-35.htm

dcmdon said:
Thats where the words "just about" come into play.

Your citation actually means nothing. Its not fully in context. Read the statute. The exceptions are:

1) between your home or place of business and a dealer where you bought it or intend to sell it.
2) a gunsmith or dealer for repair
3) formal pistol or revolver training.

and when transported in the above instances ONLY, the method of transport you cited is legal.

In summary, for any normal use. You need a pistol permit.

For example, just so there's no confusion. You need a pistol permit to carry an unloaded gun, locked in your trunk to a range for target practice. It also doesn't matter if you are bringing it to a formal competition. You need a permit to be legal.

The other exception is if you are from another state and legally own a handgun, you can bring a handgun into CT to use in a formal shooting competition. But if you are a CT resident and the event is in CT, the competiton exemption doesn't apply.

Don

Not trying to be contentious - my site does mean something and it was linked to the full law, therefore nothing was left out.

You stated "Anyone in CT carrying a handgun without a CT permit for just about any reason even locked in a trunk, unloaded is committing a felony.

I said there were exceptions. There are.
Someone from another state might read your post and accept your words as definitive - they are generally accurate w/exceptions but those omitted exceptions will be important to some.

dcmdon · Sep 23, 2011

Grapeshot - I'm not arguing at trial here. I'm shortening things to make my points more concise.

I understand that there are exceptions. That is why I've been very careful to put some "wiggle" words in. But those exceptions do not apply to 99% of us in 99% of the circumstances.

So like I said, stated in another way. If you want to do anything useful with a handgun in CT, you need a pistol permit. **

Don

** - with limited exceptions.

Grapeshot · Sep 23, 2011

dcmdon said:
Grapeshot - I'm not arguing at trial here. I'm shortening things to make my points more concise.

I understand that there are exceptions. That is why I've been very careful to put some "wiggle" words in. But those exceptions do not apply to 99% of us in 99% of the circumstances.

So like I said, stated in another way. If you want to do anything useful with a handgun in CT, you need a pistol permit. **

Don

** - with limited exceptions.

Agree and hope it improves dramatically.

dcmdon · Sep 23, 2011

The up side is that once you get a pistol permit, you can pretty much do whatever you want with whatever gun you want.

Again, there is some wiggle room there for brevity. But compared to other states, that restrict where you can carry a handgun, ct is very liberal. We've discussed those places on this forum, but its really just primary/secondary schools and anywhere the legislature is meeting.

Compare this with many more "free" states that restrict access to restaurants, bars, movie theaters, places of worship.

Other states have approved lists for handguns. CT only restricts handguns insofar as how they rate on the AWB, weight, mag external to the grip, etc.
But again, these are not realistic restrictions since any handgun affected by the AWB is a useless novelty anyway.

Don

hermannr · Sep 25, 2011

dcmdon. The first version of this federal school zone law failed in court. The reason no-one has ever been charged is this version will fail too if they ever charge anyone, and the appeals go on up to the Supreme court. There are a lot more things to worry about than a stupid unconstitutional law.

Now, that said. state and local police enforce state and local law, not federal law. Federal athorities enfource federal law. If your state law says you must have a permit to carry onto k-12 school property, it might be something to think about, the the federal law will never be enforced because they know it will fail in court. It is left there to scare people like you.

dcmdon · Sep 25, 2011

Hermaner

I could care less about the federal law. Thousands of Vermonters break that law every day. I agree with your analysis.

In CT it is a felony to bring a firearm (loaded or not) onto school property. With a few exceptions. That's the one people need to pay attention to. This statute does not cover colleges in it's prohibition. Only primary and secondary schools.

Its one of those "rather judged by 12 than carried by 6" kinds of personal decisions that people in CT have to make.

--Moderator Comment--
It is still very much a violation of OCDO Rules to advocate breaking the law.

(15) WE ADVOCATE FOR THE 'LAW-ABIDING' ONLY: Posts advocating illegal acts of any kind are NOT welcome here. Even if you feel that a law is unconstitutional we do not break it, we repeal it or defeat it in the courts.
http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/misc.php?do=showrules

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