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Thread: Concealed Carry License Summary by ksks

  1. #1
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    Post Concealed Carry License Summary by ksks

    Quote Originally Posted by ksks View Post
    I have a summary with footnotes, but when I try to post none of the notes copy.
    It is in Word. If I email it to someone, can you post it with all the references attached?
    ks
    Here is what ksks asked me to post. I've tried to preserve his formatting as closely as possible. The references/footnotes/applicable statutes are in light blue and linkable:
    Concealed Carry License
    Handgun, Knife, Electric Weapon, Billy club
    Not a legal document or legal advice

    Concealed Weapon1
    1) “Weapon” means a handgun, an electric weapon, as defined in s. 941.295
    (1c) (a), a knife other than a switchblade knife under s. 941.24, or a Billy club.

    1. 941.295 (1c) (intro.) In this section, “Electric weapon” means any device

    which is designed, redesigned, used or intended to be used, offensively or
    defensively, to immobilize or incapacitate persons by the use of electric
    current.


    Licensee can carry a concealed weapon
    1) Rules shall allow all of the following…2

    1. A licensee, as defined in s. 175.60 (1) (d), or an out−of−state licensee, as defined in s. 175.60 (1) (g), to carry a concealed weapon as permitted under s. 175.60.3
      1. anywhere in this state except as provided under subs. (15m) and (16) and ss. 943.13 (1m) (c) and 948.605 (2) (b) 1r.4



    Where I can not carry.

    1. Police Station5
    2. Sheriff Dept.
    3. State Patrol
    4. County, State or Federal Courthouse
    5. Airport - beyond secured area
    6. Prison, jail, HOC, Sand Ridge, WRC, secured portion of MH unit
    7. Municipal courtroom when in session
    8. Office of Division of Criminal Investigation special agent of DOJ
    9. For above,
      1. Can keep a weapon in a vehicle in parking facility
      2. They don’t have to post or notify that I can’t carry

    10. On grade school/high school grounds and in buildings
    11. Single-family private residence with land.6 Cannot enter or remain in a residence or on its land when the occupant tells you not to enter or remain.



    1. Multi family residence.7
      1. Cannot enter or remain in that residence if the occupant says NO. Does not apply to common area, or common land.
      2. Cannot enter or remain in the common area or on the grounds if the owner of facility says NO.
      3. Does not apply to the parking area if firearm is in the car.
      4. Occupiers of residence can carry in residence and in common areas even if posted.8

    2. Non-residential building and its land,9 if owner/occupant has given notice not to enter or remain.

    (Includes nursing home, CBRF, AFH, residential care apt, and hospice)10


      1. Does not apply to:
        1. Buildings, grounds, or land occupied by the State or local govt. (see below)
        2. Privately or publically owned bldg on grounds of a college or university. (see below)
        3. Grounds owned or occupied by a college or university
        4. If in a vehicle, any part of a building, grounds or land used as parking


    1. Land in General
      1. Can not enter or remain on any land of another after having been notified by the owner or occupant not to enter or remain on the premises.11
        1. This paragraph does not apply to a licensee or out-of-state licensee if the owner's or occupant's intent is to prevent the licensee or out-of-state licensee from carrying a firearm on the owner's or occupant's land.12
        2. Land - assume it means all real estate not otherwise covered by the law. For SB93 purposes, it does not include land associated with residential buildings, nonresidential buildings, government buildings, special events, prohibited government facilities.


    2. Special event – an event that is open to the public, is for a duration of not more than 3 weeks, and either has designated entrances to and from the event that are locked when the event is closed, or requires admission.13
      1. Does not apply if the handgun is in the vehicle.

    3. Any part of a building that is owned, occupied or controlled by the state or any local govt unit if they notified the person not to enter or remain in the bldg.
      1. does not apply
        1. If bldg. is already prohibited, e.g. courthouse
        2. To a person who leases residential or business premises in the bldg.
        3. If in a vehicle driven or parked in parking facility.


    4. University or college, public or private
      1. Can not carry in bldgs if posted.
      2. Can carry on grounds without restriction
      3. Does not apply if:
        1. Person leases residential or business premises in bldg.
        2. Firearm in vehicle in parking facility


    5. Federal Property
      1. Courthouses and parking lots
      2. Buildings and parking lots
      3. Any building, or part of a building, owned or leased by Federal govt
      4. Federal prisons and parking lots
      5. National cemeteries and parking lots
      6. VA medical centers and parking lots
      7. Military bases
        1. Can’t carry but may be able to possess

      8. Amtrak
        1. Can go in checked luggage

      9. Post office and parking lot
      10. Indian reservations - controlled by the tribe
      11. National Forest

          1. Land - OK to carry if allowed to carry in the State
          2. Cannot carry in buildings
            1. Free standing shelters and toilets are OK to carry





    Penalties

    1. For 1-8, fine max $500, jail max 30 days, or both14
    2. For 12-16, Class B forfeiture
    3. For not carrying you license and ID15 - $25, unless you show LEO license and ID within 48 hours


    To give notice16
    1) A person has received notice from the owner or occupant if he or she has
    been notified personally, either orally or in writing, or if the land is posted.

    Posting a sign to all above (not needed for single family residence)17

    1. Located in a prominent place, with reasonable expectation to be seen
    2. Near all entrances
    3. Special events posted near all entrances
    4. For grounds or land, sign near all probable access points
    5. Business or residence sign must be at least 5”x7
    6. Land sign must be at least 11 inches square18


    Must carry the License and another photo ID when carrying.19

    Do I have to show LEO my License?

    1. Must display license and photo ID20 to LEO upon request of LEO while acting in an official capacity and with lawful authority.21
      1. If caught without, will be fined $25, unless I present both documents to the law enforcement agency within 48 hours.



    Length of License

    1. 5 years22


    1. DOJ will mail notice 90 days before expiration
    2. DOJ must renew within 21 days of receipt of application, statement and fees.
    3. Can renew until 90 days after expiration date.


    Can my employer stop me from carrying?23

    1. Yes, when in the course of the employee’s employment.
    2. But, cannot prevent employer from carrying in the employee’s own car, regardless of whether the vehicle is used in the course of employment.24
    3. Employer cannot prevent employee from carrying in her/his vehicle driven or parked on employer’s property.



    Immunity from liability

    1. One who owns or occupies the property and allows others to carry is immune25
    2. An employer who does not prohibit employees from carrying is immune26



    Disorderly conduct27

    1. One can not be charged for loading or carrying, either openly or concealed.
      1. Unless other facts and circumstances that indicate a criminal or malicious intent on the part of the person apply, a person is not in violation of, and may not be charged with a violation of, this section for loading, carrying, or going armed with a firearm, without regard to whether the firearm is loaded or is concealed or openly carried.”



    Can carry open or concealed28


    Alcohol, where it is sold and consumed

    1. Can carry as long as I don’t drink alcohol


    Gun Free School Zone (grades 1-12)

    1. Class I felony for possession firearm on grounds or in bldg without special circumstances29
    2. Class B forfeiture for possessing a firearm within 1,000 feet of the grounds of a school
      1. Without a permit30
      2. Open carry with permit OK in school zone.



    In a vehicle, one can:

    1. Vehicle.31
    2. Place, possess or transport a handgun in a vehicle.32
    3. Load a handgun33
    4. Operate ATV while carrying
    5. Place, possess or transport a handgun in a motorboat with the motor running.34
    6. Place, possess or transport a handgun in a non-commercial aircraft.35
    7. Can not carry in a vehicle on some federal land, eg VA hospital



    Carry in a State park, a State fish hatchery,36 or a wildlife refuge37

    • Yes


    Change of address
    1) Must notify DOJ within 30 days38

    ---------------
    HOC= House of Correction, Sand Ridge=prison treatment center for sexually violent offenders, WRC= WI Resource Center prison hospital for mental health, secured portion of MH unit=mental health, CBRF=community based residential facility, AFH=adult family home, LEO=law enforcement officer
    ---------------


    http://legis.wisconsin.gov/senate/sen11/news/images/0930_001%20FAQ.pdf


    https://docs.legis.wisconsin.gov/2011/related/amendments/sb93/ssa2_sb93

    Questions:
    Hunting – carrying concealed or open?
    - are either legal?

    Accidentally entering
    What if you miss the sign? Sounds like you can still be fined???

    Open or concealed in vehicle.
    -does it say that specifically?
    -with or without a license?

    Where is the alcohol reference?


    Footnotes:
    1 175.60 (j)

    2 440.26 (3m)

    3 440.26 (3m)(d)

    4 175.60 (2g)(a)

    5 175.60(16)

    6 943.13 (1m)(c) 1

    7 943.13 (1m)(c) 1

    8 943.13 (1m)(c) 1m

    9 943.13 (1m)(c) 2

    10 943.13 (1e)(cm)

    11 943.13 (1m)(c) 2

    12 943.13 (1m)(b)

    13 943.13 (1e)(h)

    14 175.60 (17)(ag)

    15 175.60(17)(a)

    16 943.13 (2)(am)(intro)

    17 943.13 (2)(bm) 2.a

    18 943.13 (2)(am) 1

    19 175.60 (2g)(b)

    20 175.60 (1)(h)

    21 175.60 (2g)(c)

    22 175.60 (15)(a)

    23 175.60(15m)(a)

    24 175.60 (15m)(b)

    25 175.60(21)(b)

    26 175.60(21)(c)

    27 947.01 (2)

    28 947.01 (2)

    29 948.605 (2)(a)

    30 948.605 (2)(b) 1r

    31 167.31 (2)(b)

    32 167.31 (2)(b)

    33 167.31 (2)(c)

    34 167.31 (2)(a)

    35 167.31 (3)(a) 2

    36 29.089 (2)(d)

    37 29.091 (2) (d), and 29.621 (4)(d)

    38 175.60 11(a) 3 (b)

    Dave
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    Folks here tend to be focused on firearms, but the new legislation also covers knives and electronic devices. One point I don't see discussed is vehicle carry with the specific exclusions or allowances for handguns. I wonder if people realize that this gives a handgun owner more options than a Tazer or knife owner.

    I would appreciate clarification on this.

    It would also be nice to have clarification on rifle and shotgun carry in a vehicle, which I assume is still under DNR rules where the handguns have been excepted out of the DNR restrictions for the most part relative to in/on vehicle carry.

    If my post is out of line for this thread then feel free to delete or relocate my post as needed.

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    Thanks Dave. Great job!

    What I wanted to do is get a quick and easy summary that is in layman's terms.

    I would prefer folks keep the comments to just the license issue.

    Please proof read and check references.

    I would like corrections and recommendations.

    When there is a final version that is completely accurate, maybe we can post it in a sticky.

    ks

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    Regular Member Lurchiron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ksks View Post
    Thanks Dave. Great job!

    What I wanted to do is get a quick and easy summary that is in layman's terms.

    I would prefer folks keep the comments to just the license issue.

    Please proof read and check references.

    I would like corrections and recommendations.

    When there is a final version that is completely accurate, maybe we can post it in a sticky.

    ks
    +1 & Thanks
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    "Have you Spanked a leftist today; it's the Right thing to do!!!"


    Within the gates before a man shall go,
    (Fully warily let him watch,)
    Full long let him look about him;
    For little he knows where a foe may lurk,
    And sit in the seats within.

    Havamal (Bellows translation)

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    Indian reservations

    Not all land on indian reservations is tribal land and the tribes don't have jurisdiction over it. For instance, Lac du Flambeau is approx. 50% tribal and 50% fee land. Fee land being the kind you and I can buy and sell anywhere in the state. The tribe only has jurisdiction over tribal/trust land in Wisconsin on their reservation.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cobbersmom View Post
    Not all land on indian reservations is tribal land and the tribes don't have jurisdiction over it. For instance, Lac du Flambeau is approx. 50% tribal and 50% fee land. Fee land being the kind you and I can buy and sell anywhere in the state. The tribe only has jurisdiction over tribal/trust land in Wisconsin on their reservation.
    This is going to be confusing.
    Is there anyway to make it clear?
    Too bad tribal lands aren't covered.

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    Clear as mud! One could check with the tribal chairman, council or police. You'd probably get three different answers. Up in LdF I know folks have asked about hiking on tribal land and have been told there is no problem. Others in the tribe will tell them they're trespassing.
    I wanted to bring this up because someone from another state replied in another thread about reservations having their own jurisdiction, assuming there was no fee land. Guess a person will just have to pay attention. However for driving, I don't see a problem. The roads are public whether owned by the town, county, state or tribe.

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    How hard would be be to get this to apply to tribal lands? Obviously any variety of other laws apply. I've never been around nor informed of tribal issues to any extent.

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    OK. So let's critique and correct this summary.

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    Any more corrections or changes?

    Any help would be appreciated. Then maybe it can become a sticky.

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    I agree, LDF is a mix of tribal lands and private property. The WI bill will apply to public right of way land within the tribal boundaries and on private property. However, SB-93 raises new possibilities for the Tribes as Sovereign Nations. With a precedent now in WI law, the Tribes could issue a concealed weapon permit valid on Tribal Lands. This will get complicated because the largest collection of reservations belong to what is legally known as the "Lake Superior Chippewa". (I am a 1/4 Ojibwa and a member of the Bad River Band of Lake Superior Chippewa.) Thus, a Tribal permit may be valid in all the reservations or done band by band. Or, the Tribes could opt to respect the SB-93 law. In point of fact, unless they separately declare it invalid on tribal lands to the DOJ, it would, like so many other WI laws, be valid on Tribal Lands.

    The gaming casino in Milwaukee is another can of worms.
    My cats support the Second Amendment. NRA Life Member, NRA Instructor: Pistol, Rifle, & Personal Protection - NRA Certified Range Safety Officer, Utah BCI Certified Concealed Firearm Permit Instructor.
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    What will the age requirement be for concealed carry of a weapon? WI Stat. § 948.60 is the only limit on age as far as carrying a firearm, which basically says you have to be 18. I don't see any mention of a minimum age on here. You have to be 21 to buy handgun ammo or a handgun from a FFL, so I know it would be either 18 or 21.

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    Just want to add to the list. Since I know a lot of us are Veterans and go to VA hospitals (this is where I work by the way) there is no carry allowed at any VA hospital or property which includes the parking lots.

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    Regular Member paul@paul-fisher.com's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thenewchance View Post
    What will the age requirement be for concealed carry of a weapon? WI Stat. § 948.60 is the only limit on age as far as carrying a firearm, which basically says you have to be 18. I don't see any mention of a minimum age on here. You have to be 21 to buy handgun ammo or a handgun from a FFL, so I know it would be either 18 or 21.
    Permits will only be issued by WI if you are 21+.

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    Quote Originally Posted by paul@paul-fisher.com View Post
    Permits will only be issued by WI if you are 21+.
    Alright, thanks.

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    Noble effort, ksks! Here are a few edits that caught my eye:


    Non-residential building and its land,9 if owner/occupant has given notice not to enter or remain.
    (Includes nursing home, CBRF, AFH, residential care apt, and hospice)10
    Does not apply to:
    Buildings, grounds, or land occupied by the State or local govt. (see below)
    Privately or publically owned bldg on grounds of a college or university. (see below)
    Grounds owned or occupied by a college or university
    If in a vehicle, a firearm stored/carried in a vehicle that is any part of a building, grounds or land used as parking

    Land in General
    Can not enter or remain on any land of another after having been notified by the owner or occupant not to enter or remain on the premises.11
    This paragraph does not apply to a licensee or out-of-state licensee if the owner's or occupant's intent is to prevent the licensee or out-of-state licensee from carrying a firearm on the owner's or occupant's land.12
    Land - assume it means all real estate not otherwise covered by the law. No -- non-residential land is treated exactly like the grounds of a non-residential building. From 193.13 (1m) (c) 2:

    "2. While carrying a firearm, enters or remains in any
    part of a nonresidential building, grounds of a nonresi-
    dential building, or land that the actor does not own or
    occupy ..."
    (For SB93 purposes, it does not include land associated with residential buildings, nonresidential buildings, government buildings, special events, prohibited government facilities. see above...
    Special event – an event that is open to the public, is for a duration of not more than 3 weeks, and either has designated entrances to and from the event that are locked when the event is closed, or requires admission.13
    Does not apply if the firearm is in the vehicle.

    To give notice16
    1) A person has received notice from the owner or occupant if he or she has
    been notified personally, either orally or in writing, or if the land is posted.

    Posting a sign to all above (not needed for single family residence)17
    Located in a prominent place, with reasonable expectation to be seen
    Near all entrances
    Special events posted near all entrances
    For grounds or land, sign near all probable access points
    Sign must be at least 5”x7
    Land sign must be at least 11 inches square18 That is the requirement for generally posting land as "no trespassing." For posting a weapon prohibition, the signage is the same for non-residential buildings, grounds and land.

    Can my employer stop me from carrying?23
    Yes, when in the course of the employee’s employment regardless of whether you are on your employer'sproperty, and while off-duty on your employer's premises, except for the vehicle exception noted below.
    But, cannot prevent employee from carrying a weapon in the employee’s own car, regardless of whether the vehicle is used in the course of employment, if the employee is a licensee.24
    Employer cannot prevent employee from carrying in her/his vehicle driven or parked on employer’s property.
    Last edited by LaBomba; 09-01-2011 at 10:39 PM. Reason: Had to correct my corrections <sigh>

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    Quote Originally Posted by paul@paul-fisher.com View Post
    Permits will only be issued by WI if you are 21+.
    I'm trying to think...if you are an 18 y/o non WI resident with a license, can you carry?

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    Thanks for the comments. I will make corrections.
    If anyone wants a Word copy of it, PM me and I will email it to you.

    ksks

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    Quote Originally Posted by gdyslin View Post
    Just want to add to the list. Since I know a lot of us are Veterans and go to VA hospitals (this is where I work by the way) there is no carry allowed at any VA hospital or property which includes the parking lots.
    Are VA Hospitals federal buildings?

    Anyway, they cannot prohibit firearms that are within the vehicle.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by ksks View Post
    I'm trying to think...if you are an 18 y/o non WI resident with a license, can you carry?
    You can open carry in places where one can OC without a license, but a non-resident license/permit is subject to the same restrictions as a WI resident license, including the age requirement.
    A. Gold

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  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by BROKENSPROKET View Post
    Are VA Hospitals federal buildings?

    Anyway, they cannot prohibit firearms that are within the vehicle.
    They are federal, and yes they can prohibit inside vehicles on federal property. Whether the VA does so, I don't know. Wouldn't be surprised to learn that they do.
    A. Gold

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shotgun View Post
    They are federal, and yes they can prohibit inside vehicles on federal property. Whether the VA does so, I don't know. Wouldn't be surprised to learn that they do.
    That ain't good. I suppose the parking lot of a post office would be the same.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ksks View Post
    I'm trying to think...if you are an 18 y/o non WI resident with a license, can you carry?
    175.60(2g)(a)

    (2g) Carrying a concealed weapon; possession and display of license document or authorization.
    (a) A licensee or an out-of-state licensee may carry a concealed weapon anywhere in this state except as provided under subs. (15m) and (16) and ss. 943.13 (1m) (c) and 948.605 (2) (b) 1r.


    and "out of state licensee" is defined in 175.60(1)(g) as follows:

    "Out-of-state licensee" means an individual who is 21 years of age or over, who is not a Wisconsin resident, and who has been issued an out-of-state license.

    It's not looking that good so far for that, I don't think somebody under 21 can conceal at all in this state. I myself turn 18 very soon, I probably will open carry as that is legal in WI.



    On another note, will a concealed weapon in a vehicle require the driver (vehicle operator) to have a CCW, or just one of the passengers?

  24. #24
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    As I said I work at the VA in Madison...citing Federal law below...and yes this includes the parking areas...

    TITLE 38 - PENSIONS, BONUSES, AND VETERANS' RELIEF
    CHAPTER I - DEPARTMENT OF VETERANS AFFAIRS
    PART 1 - GENERAL PROVISIONS
    1.218 - Security and law enforcement at VA facilities.

    (13) Weapons and explosives. No person while on property shall carry firearms, other dangerous or deadly weapons, or explosives, either openly or concealed, except for official purposes.

    (b) Schedule of offenses and penalties.

    (37) Possession of firearms, carried either openly or concealed, whether loaded or unloaded (except by Federal or State law enforcement officers on official business, $500.

    Reference-

    38 USC Sec. 901

    Sec. 901. Authority to prescribe rules for conduct and penalties
    for violations

    (a)(1) The Secretary shall prescribe regulations to provide for
    the maintenance of law and order and the protection of persons and
    property on Department property.
    (2) In this chapter, the term "Department property" means land
    and buildings that are under the jurisdiction of the Department and
    are not under control of the Administrator of General Services.
    (b) Regulations under subsection (a) shall include -
    (1) rules for conduct on Department property; and
    (2) the penalties, within the limits specified in subsection
    (c), for violations of such rules.

    (c) Whoever violates any rule prescribed by regulation under
    subsection (b)(1) shall be fined in accordance with title 18 or
    imprisoned not more than six months, or both. The Secretary may
    prescribe by regulation a maximum fine less than that which would
    otherwise apply under the preceding sentence or a maximum term of
    imprisonment of a shorter period than that which would otherwise
    apply under the preceding sentence, or both. Any such regulation
    shall apply notwithstanding any provision of title 18 or any other
    law to the contrary.

    (d) The rules prescribed under subsection (a), together with the
    penalties for violations of such rules, shall be posted
    conspicuously on property to which they apply.

    (e) The Secretary shall consult with the Attorney General before
    prescribing regulations under this section.

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