The only point I would differ on is that, IMO, we need to move faster.
Thread: Labor DayWeekend Meet-up
I'm trying to make a get together to create somekind of non profit org for the open carry movement in Alabama.
Let me be clear from the outset, I don't care who's on first, who's pitchin' or who's hawking hot dogs. Apart from creating a working organization that allows us to get a lobbist into the legislature, and HB 582 passed, I DON'T CARE! I don't care who said 'You're momma wears Army boots" and I don't care if worse was said. I was not part of it and don't want to be part of it in any way. Whatever happened needs to be settled amoung those who were participants, leaving the reat of us out of it, and leaving the issue of open carry in Alabama out of it. They are two different and seperate things, and for the success of OC in Alabama (meaning any peaceable person in the state can freely OC without fear of being harrassed, detained or worse for doing so) I ask you guys to handle those things through PM's, snail mail, phone calls or whatever else, but leave the larger issue of OC in Alabama out of it. As well, please continue your support of OC in Alabama.
That said, I'd like to see something happen on Labor Day weekend. I'm no rocket scientist. I'm a fairly good writer, and have some experience working in non profits, but have zero experience creating one. What I can do is look for a place to have a get together and work up a guideline for discussion, and hammer away at having a meeting to do it. Again, I don't care who gets credit or what it takes, but I'd like to see something concrete done before time passes us by.
We have at present, a bill in the legislature which would nueter the ill written and antiquated firearms laws presently on the books in Alabama that are open to bad interpretation. We all know those laws and we all know how they are misused by LEO/LEA to enforce what they may want the law to be, rather than what it is. That we wrote this over the last year and it got to the Judiciary Committee, this year, is nothing short of astounding. But if we flounder now and fail to follow up on seeing this through, the chance to make it happen again in may not come again.
In the end I am for whatever it takes to make passage of HB 582 reality. In that context, I think that through a nonprofit, we could organize a day for folk interested to gather and go to Montgomery and visit the lawmakers personally to urge the passage of this. It's important. It's very important. And it is urgent. If the lawmakers who brought this to the legislature, and those who would be against it, see nothing but us fall against each other, then what motivation do they have to support it, and surely how much more motivated against it could they become?
In some way's I think that putting this off untill September is too long. I feel that we should really be ready to have a lobbyist ready and available the day the legislature returns to session. I just don't know what all creating a nonprofit to do this through will take. I don't even know what it will take to get a lobbyist. But I don't want to see a bunch of talk take it's usual course and become just a bunch of talk. If we are serious about changing the laws and making OC a normal part of daily life in Alabama, then we must play the game that is set up already and we must have some representation in the halls of the legislature. It's how it works, it's the game. And we either play or we will be discounted.
As I see it we are faced with either being a has been minor league wanna bee's club who talk big on chat boards, or we are going to step up to the plate and become major league players with the clout to actually get something done. So what say ye, does first of September work? What do we need to take the next step and become something other than a bunch of guys on a chat board? I know others have been thinking of this, how it is done, what it will take to create it, and what it can do for us.
I guess ultimately I'm asking people to make a choice. I'm asking that people choose to be part of the solution. I'm asking that we create a nonprofit that allows us to join in one voice, consolidates our power, consolidates our resources to the end of making OC in Alabama as normal a part of a citizens choice in self defense as a shotgun behind the front door; and one that would be no more challenged by the law enforcement officers and agencies of our state.
The only point I would differ on is that, IMO, we need to move faster.
We should set up a meeting as soon as we can get half-a-dozen of us in the same room at the same time.
How abou the end of uly then, the 30th? that essentially moves the meeting up one month. There just needs to be a firm date so that a location can be found. What sense of this do you have, are we talking about 4 hours, a day, a day and a half? What do you think a reasonable time for hashing out the initial details would be?
30 July sounds good. Montgomery or Birmingham would be my first two choices for location.
As a suggestion, let's get someplace where we can meet privately for at least four hours. We might not have to meet that long or we might have to meet longer. I have no experience to go by, but four hours sounds like it would be reasonable if we include a meal in there.
I would suggest an OC-friendly restaurant that has private rooms available. Anyone know what's available along those lines in Montgomery or Birmingham?
One other thing: Whatever decisions are arrived at, we need to have a written record of who said what and what the final outcome is. Any ideas on that?
Along with an interim board of directors, we might also need to discuss how we will choose one or more lobbyists.
What would the purpose of the 30 July meeting be? Would it be to develop a charter and by-laws, or to present proposed documents to be approved by a representative membership.
Step one is for five or six folks to hammer out a proposal. Step two is for a large group representing the ultimate membership to approve the proposal. If you have dozens of people hammering out a proposal, you'll never reach a consensus. If you present these same dozens with a proposal that has been crafted by folks who represent a variety of opinions, you could easily deal with a few amendments that will produce a document that the membership can easily approve.
So, is the July meeting the convention or the work session?
I too believe we need to record the meeitng. I'm no stenographer, but if the meeitng is recorded then it can be turned into written minutes. I would like to see somewhere in north Alabama but could easily come to Birmingham.
Is what I'm hearing that those interested in such a thing, draw up draft ideas prior to the meet and the work be done at that time (July 30) to finalize a version for creating the nonprofit, then a meet up following as a convention to ratify?
Last edited by JohnH; 07-02-2011 at 09:16 PM.
OK. 30 July work meeting. We should lay some groundwork before the meeting. We should probably rip off some ideas for a charter and by-laws from existing non-profits. Also, we should research services that will help us file the paperwork.
The very first effort should be a statement of purpose, three to five sentences. Would that purpose be limited to OC, or broadened to the RKBA in general? I am partial to the unlicensed exercise of the RKBA, which, in Alabama, kinda means OC.
Here is a rough sample:
The Right to Keep and Bear Arms (in plain language, the right to own and to carry personal weapons for the defense of self, of others, and of the State) is a natural right, enshrined in both the Alabama and United States Constitutions. As a right, both the ownership and carry must not be restricted or regulated by law and must not require a license or permit issued by any government agency. [Organization Name (hopefully Alabama Open Carry)] exists to bring about the removal of Alabama laws that infringe on the right of unlicensed carry, to ensure that local and county governments remain bound by preemption from making local laws restricting carry or ownership, and to encourage law enforcement to show the proper respect to those who choose to exercise the right to carry arms, even openly, on their person at home, in their vehicles, on publicly owned properties, and on privately owned properties where welcomed by the private property owner or agent.
I like that.
I was thinking today of lobbist's and how we are going to elect or appoint them or if there is some other method we could use. I'm assuming how we do this would somehow need to be part of the bylaws. I'm still trying to formuate my thoughts.
I would prefer something less wordy for that last bit, like maybe "or anywhere else he has right or license to be." Other than that, it is a good start.on publicly owned properties, and on privately owned properties where welcomed by the private property owner or agent.
Myself, I like the idea of an umbrella organization, such as the proposed Alabama Gun Rights, that would work towards strengthening the RKBA in general, with subsidiary or affiliated organizations like ALOC, a hypothetical Constitutional Carry PAC, a hypothetical Legal Defense Trust, etc.
The only nag I have about that, is that it might be hard to retain the grassroots feel in such an organization.
Edit to add: It looks like the 23rd may be better for some people. Would y'all be okay with moving it up another week?
Last edited by Brimstone Baritone; 07-04-2011 at 10:00 AM.
I hope this is not going to turn into a mass meeting. The intent is for a working session, not a meeting of everyone to decide whether to organize formally or when to organize. The meeting is for the purpose of setting the formal organization into motion. Those attending should be prepared to be assigned tasks, to complete them, and to attend other planning meetings with the goal of presenting a finalized plan for an up-or-down vote (at a mass meeting) to all who wish to be a part of the formal organization.
Any existing resources are welcome to be volunteered, but not necessary at all. They should not be a subject of the meeting at all unless they are being unconditionally offered.
So... Was that a yes or a no on the 23rd? If it's a yes, I'm going to start looking for a place around Birmingham that would do. If you want to look around Montgomery, and Ruger and JohnH try to find somewhere closer to them, then we can finalize the place.
Who is planning on attending? Let's develop a list.
I am hearing the following list so far:
If you are on the list, but don't plan on attending, please repost the list without your name. If you are planning on attending, but are not on the list, please repost the list adding your name.
I am scheduled to work on the 23rd until 3 PM. I can make a meeting in Birmingham at 5 PM or later. I can make a meeting in Montgomery at 3:30 or later. Suggestions in this thread seem to have died down.
Shall I select a Montgomery location and time? Or does someone else have a concrete proposal for the meeting?
Due to medical circumstances, I will be unable to attend on the twenty-third. Nothing serious, but I will probably be home-bound for several days.
I still would like to participate as much as possible before my trip to China.
On the lobbyist business: I am very much opposed to hiring a lobbyist who may or may not be familiar or even sympathetic to our goals. I feel that it would be more productive for one, or two, of our members to voluntarily fill that position and be compensated for expenses only.
I'm fine with Montgomery. I didn't find anywhere I felt was suitable, although I was hoping for a larger group.
On Edit: Hope everything's okay, SFC. Maybe eye95 can find a place with a phone and we can conference you in.
Last edited by Brimstone Baritone; 07-17-2011 at 06:03 PM.
It takes a village to raise an idiot.
I have a few thoughts (very few) and will try to get them written down. One of the things I mentioned above is the business of paid lobbyists. I would strongly recommend that we start with volunteers from within our group and somewhere down the road look into paid lobbyists. That does not preclude reimbursing the volunteers for necessary expenses.
There are two factors there: How could we be entirely sure that the paid lobbyist is familiar with and sympathetic to our goals? How would we be able to pay said lobbyist in the beginning? On the latter point, it is my understanding that a really competent lobbyist does not come cheap.
We will have to come up with a system of dues somewhere down the road. Also, we might want to look into discounted insurance, both liability and legal, for our members.
Like I said, I've got a few thoughts running around in what is laughingly referred to as my mind.
Since the group is so small (which is actually good for a working group), let's just meet at the usual Montgomery meeting place, the Starbuck's in Eastchase. I propose 5 PM this Saturday. I could be there as early as 4 PM if folks'd prefer.
Please RSVP in this thread if you intend to attend. Also, please post if the time or place is a problem.
JohnH had to bow out, but I'm still in. Look forward to seeing everyone again.
Last edited by Brimstone Baritone; 07-23-2011 at 11:58 AM.
Here at Starbucks, trying' out the new iPad. (Yeah, I know, I'm a bit early.)
Typin' up some some notes on thoughts about the new non-profit.
If we do this right, we oughta be ready for a Labor Day meeting with the full membership, proposal in hand, ready for a few tweaks, a vote on approval, and an election of the first board of directors.
It was a productive, though not well-attended, meeting. It was good to see mcdo....er...myst...er...Baritone again. We don't always see eye to eye, but he is one of my favorite folks to disagree (or agree--more often than not) with.
Anyway, we discussed some of the broader ideas and came up with a framework to flesh it out over the next few weeks. We will be creating some Google Docs and sharing them with a handful of others to come up with a proposal to present to a wider grassroots gathering for amendment and approval.
We need that handful of folks to join the collaboration. I assume that JohnH, Kirbinator, and SFC will participate. I hope one or two others do.
Let us know so that we can add your Google accounts to the collaboration. Even if you think you don't have a google account, you likely do. If you don't, they are easy enough to create.
Thanks in advance.