Kitsap County Open Carry Report

drewdownkali · Aug 7, 2013

golddigger14s said:
NO! (not in WA at least, different in other states) I got pulled over by HWY State Patrol, and when he ran my plates he already new that I had a CPL. He asked if I had a gun, I said yes and he just said ok leave it alone. If he asks, just say yes and it is located such in such. They should not ask you to get out, or hand over your weapon.
BTW welcome, and read a bunch of the threads to include the stickies. Come out to some of our meet-n-greets.

Where/ where are these meet and greets? Yeah one time I was told by a WSP that he coulda arrested me for not telling him I had a gun with me when he hadn't even asked. Another time way back when, I was pulled over and they actually had me get out and took all bullets out of my gun but left it on the seat. Told me nice gun before leaving. lol. Seems like if I ever have problems with the police up here, it's always WSP. A lot of them are hardasses and think they can pull people over just for driving the wrong car. Russ Hague is ridiculous too. I know why they call it Kidnap County. lmao

EMNofSeattle · Aug 7, 2013

drewdownkali said:
Where/ where are these meet and greets? Yeah one time I was told by a WSP that he coulda arrested me for not telling him I had a gun with me when he hadn't even asked. Another time way back when, I was pulled over and they actually had me get out and took all bullets out of my gun but left it on the seat. Told me nice gun before leaving. lol. Seems like if I ever have problems with the police up here, it's always WSP. A lot of them are hardasses and think they can pull people over just for driving the wrong car. Russ Hague is ridiculous too. I know why they call it Kidnap County. lmao

meet and greets take place at various times and places around here.

closest to you is the Third Saturday of every month at the Hideaway Cafe in downtown Port Orchard at noon.

There's usually one in Federal Way 2nd Saturday of every month in the morning... 9 ish? I think?

then the Lyon's Den in Bothell every 1st saturday.... I think 10 o clock?

are what I can think of.

I don't know who "WSP" is, it certainly isn't the Washington State Patrol with how you're describing them...

Grapeshot · Aug 7, 2013

drewdownkali said:
Where/ where are these meet and greets? Yeah one time I was told by a WSP that he coulda arrested me for not telling him I had a gun with me when he hadn't even asked. Another time way back when, I was pulled over and they actually had me get out and took all bullets out of my gun but left it on the seat. Told me nice gun before leaving. lol. Seems like if I ever have problems with the police up here, it's always WSP. A lot of them are hardasses and think they can pull people over just for driving the wrong car. Russ Hague is ridiculous too. I know why they call it Kidnap County. lmao

As long has the people permit these color of law actions to continue, they will continue unabated.

drewdownkali · Aug 7, 2013

Yes I was referring to the Washington State Patrol.

drewdownkali · Aug 7, 2013

Hear about the guy who got pulled over by an unmarked and got ticket thrown out because an unmarked was used for a traffic stop? Technically its not legal for them to used unmarked cars for traffic (just undercover detective stuff) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i9l8nXrGCcU

http://www.mediafire.com/view/?wblu1123764u779

drewdownkali · Aug 7, 2013

Put it this way, for a while I owned a beat up 86 Honda accord that I purchased for 800 bucks. Had a different color quarter panel on one side. I can't remember how many times I got pulled over driving that car. I now own a red 03 VW GTI (for last 3 years) that I keep in great condition and have only been pulled over twice. Even though it had a loud exhaust.

leitung · Aug 7, 2013

Thats a California law I believe that they can only use marked cars for traffic. In washington WSP uses whatever they want, and I believe it's totally legal.

EMNofSeattle · Aug 7, 2013

drewdownkali said:
Hear about the guy who got pulled over by an unmarked and got ticket thrown out because an unmarked was used for a traffic stop? Technically its not legal for them to used unmarked cars for traffic (just undercover detective stuff) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i9l8nXrGCcU

http://www.mediafire.com/view/?wblu1123764u779

There is no such case law in Washington, the case cited in that brief involved a fleeing and eluding charge, not a traffic citation.

different things altogether.

Vitaeus · Aug 7, 2013

Quick comment about the searching a car thing in WA, unless you are being arrested you have to consent to a search or they need a warrant. They also don't get much traction on questioning passengers for a traffic stop. Check out the LEO Digest webpage, it is a wealth of information for citizen's on the bright lines and boundaries the LEOs in Washington have to follow.

https://fortress.wa.gov/cjtc/www/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=137&Itemid=80

drewdownkali · Aug 7, 2013

EMNofSeattle said:
There is no such case law in Washington, the case cited in that brief involved a fleeing and eluding charge, not a traffic citation.

different things altogether.

According to everything I have read about it (and it was on the news) he was cited for a seat belt infraction, to which he admitted committing to the Judge. The judge dismissed the case and got him out of the court room with out responding to the matter of the unmarked vehicle.

EMNofSeattle · Aug 7, 2013

drewdownkali said:
According to everything I have read about it (and it was on the news) he was cited for a seat belt infraction, to which he admitted committing to the Judge. The judge dismissed the case and got him out of the court room with out responding to the matter of the unmarked vehicle.

So.... There is no case law about the unmarked vehicle

drewdownkali · Aug 7, 2013

EMNofSeattle said:
There is no such case law in Washington, the case cited in that brief involved a fleeing and eluding charge, not a traffic citation.

different things altogether.

He put the eluding case in there because it supports his case. An unmarked vehicle (no insignia or official plates) tried to pull over another. They had to be pulling over the person for something else (traffic violation) and the person not pull over before they could consider the person eluding them right? Lots of whackos drive old police cruisers, not to mention when the they have cars that don't even look like cop cars at all (Subaru that the sheriffs have, have seen the WSP with pickup trucks shooting laser on side of road). Undercover work is fine, they need them then. But traffic patrol, I'd be a bit scared to pull over.

drewdownkali · Aug 7, 2013

No case law directly but laws on books say they can only use em for undercover/detective work.

drewdownkali · Aug 7, 2013

Why would a Judge dismiss a case in which the driver admitted to committing the infraction if the stop was legal?

leitung · Aug 7, 2013

drewdownkali said:
No case law directly but laws on books say they can only use em for undercover/detective work.

RCW 46.61.024

(1) Any driver of a motor vehicle who willfully fails or refuses to immediately bring his or her vehicle to a stop and who drives his or her vehicle in a reckless manner while attempting to elude a pursuing police vehicle, after being given a visual or audible signal to bring the vehicle to a stop, shall be guilty of a class C felony. The signal given by the police officer may be by hand, voice, emergency light, or siren. The officer giving such a signal shall be in uniform and the vehicle shall be equipped with lights and sirens.

(2) It is an affirmative defense to this section which must be established by a preponderance of the evidence that: (a) A reasonable person would not believe that the signal to stop was given by a police officer; and (b) driving after the signal to stop was reasonable under the circumstances.

(3) The license or permit to drive or any nonresident driving privilege of a person convicted of a violation of this section shall be revoked by the department of licensing.

[2010 c 8 § 9065; 2003 c 101 § 1; 1983 c 80 § 1; 1982 1st ex.s. c 47 § 25; 1979 ex.s. c 75 § 1.]

Thor80 · Aug 7, 2013

http://apps.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=46.08.065

Cite for the conversation of unmarked vehicles. I'm on my phone but there appears to be some sort of exception for WSP using unmarked vehicles for Traffic... I didn't see any exceptions for Sheriff or Local PD regarding traffic but it does say they can use for investigative/UC work..

-Thor

drewdownkali · Aug 7, 2013

Thor80 said:
http://apps.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=46.08.065

Cite for the conversation of unmarked vehicles. I'm on my phone but there appears to be some sort of exception for WSP using unmarked vehicles for Traffic... I didn't see any exceptions for Sheriff or Local PD regarding traffic but it does say they can use for investigative/UC work..

-Thor

You are right there "Traffic control vehicles of the Washington state patrol may be exempted from the requirements of subsection" But the thing is, "Traffic Control" and Traffic enforcement" are two different things. This is where the WSP think they can get away with it and blur the line between traffic control and enforcement.

leitung · Aug 7, 2013

Thor80 said:
http://apps.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=46.08.065

Cite for the conversation of unmarked vehicles. I'm on my phone but there appears to be some sort of exception for WSP using unmarked vehicles for Traffic... I didn't see any exceptions for Sheriff or Local PD regarding traffic but it does say they can use for investigative/UC work..

-Thor

RCW 46.08.065
(3) Subsection (2) of this section shall not apply to vehicles used by the Washington state patrol for general undercover or confidential investigative purposes. Traffic control vehicles of the Washington state patrol may be exempted from the requirements of subsection (2) of this section at the discretion of the chief of the Washington state patrol.

Better than mine, all it says is that it's at the discretion of the chief of WSP if they can use an unmarked vehicle for traffic.

All they have to do is wear a uniform, and have lights & siren.

leitung · Aug 7, 2013

drewdownkali said:
You are right there "Traffic control vehicles of the Washington state patrol may be exempted from the requirements of subsection" But the thing is, "Traffic Control" and Traffic enforcement" are two different things. This is where the WSP think they can get away with it and blur the line between traffic control and enforcement.

Splitting hairs, seems clear as day. I am sure traffic control would be defined as detaining motorists for violations of law.

drewdownkali · Aug 7, 2013

They have yellow flashing lights and are used by DOT and the State Patrol for controlling traffic in work or accident zones, not for patrol. Patrol vehicles, marked and unmarked, can be used as traffic control vehicles provided they have yellow lights, but this exemption does not apply in the traffic enforcement capacity. Even if it did apply it would not apply to the official license plate requirement

RCW 46.08.066 is the law that establishes requirements regarding official license plates, and granting exemptions permitting confidential license plates.

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