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Thread: Gun Purchase Question?

  1. #1
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    Gun Purchase Question?

    I went to a local shop intending to buy a 380 pocket pistol. Selected a gun, and filled out the forms. Dealer ran the approval and it came back approved as I expected. However, something told me I should put more thought into this purchase and evaluate more guns, and that perhaps a 9mm compact or sub compact might suit more needs. So, I told the dealer I wanted to think about it and asked if I could use the approval for another gun If I decided. I was surprised at his short reply, something like, Well you'll have to pay $2 for the background check, and you won't be able to buy another gun for 30 days. I said, I will gladly pay the $2 and I didn't say I didn't want to buy a gun, I said, I'm not sure I want this gun and I want to think about it. I've since decided I want a Glock 19 or 26, and this dealer has them in Gen 3 only for $529. In my gun evaluation I stumbled across the Marksman, where I rented several guns and shot them to arrive at my decision. I asked what they got for a Gen 4 G19 or G26 and they said $480. I like the first dealer, but not enough to pay them a $50 premium for an earlier version.

    So did the first approval count as a purchase as the dealer alluded even though I did not make the purchase? It seems he would have had to notify the state I did not buy the gun. When I asked if I could still buy a gun from him on that approval he said yes, they would just have to change the gun.

    So, does this all sound correct. I know I threw a wrench in the works by changing my mind, but I'm sure I'm not the first. I thought about asking him if he would order a Gen 4 and if he would honor a competitors pricing, and if not according to him I have to wait 30 days, which is not a problem, but it sounded strange after giving some thought, since I only got approved to buy the gun, but I didn't actually buy it.

    Thank you;

    Ric

  2. #2
    Regular Member SouthernBoy's Avatar
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    The gen4 Glocks are having some issues and I'm sure these have all been ironed out as of now. You should visit glocktalk.com to do some followup on this. The gen3's are proven and are fine pieces. Very reliable and easy to work on and maintain.

    The .380ACP is considered by most to be the minimum power level and should be thought of as a backup caliber, sometimes referred to as a "goto gun". You would be better served with the 9mm in a good self defense load. Were it me in your shoes with the guns you've mentioned, I'd go with the gen3 G19.
    In the final seconds of your life, just before your killer is about to dispatch you to that great eternal darkness, what would you rather have in your hand? A cell phone or a gun?

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  3. #3
    Regular Member SirTiger's Avatar
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    It sounds like he may have misunderstood you. He probably was under the impression you wanted to get the 380 and another pistol. We disregard a lot of forms, people change their minds, they leave, ect. The background check does not use the serial of the gun only the type it is ( pistol, revolver, rifle) and its up to the dealer to input the form info usually at a later time.

    Hope that helps.

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    Regular Member sccrref's Avatar
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    VA code 18.2-308.2:2 P. Except as provided in subdivisions 1, 2, and 3 of this subsection, it shall be unlawful for any person who is not a licensed firearms dealer to purchase more than one handgun within any 30-day period. A violation of this subsection shall be punishable as a Class 1 misdemeanor.

    This says purchase. It says nothing about how many background checks you can have in a 30 day period.

  5. #5
    Regular Member SirTiger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sccrref View Post
    VA code 18.2-308.2:2 P. Except as provided in subdivisions 1, 2, and 3 of this subsection, it shall be unlawful for any person who is not a licensed firearms dealer to purchase more than one handgun within any 30-day period. A violation of this subsection shall be punishable as a Class 1 misdemeanor.

    This says purchase. It says nothing about how many background checks you can have in a 30 day period.

    Right, but my point is... If you just fill out the nice paper no one yet knows you have purchased that firearm. For example; I've filled out 3 new apartment applications today, but they wont count for anything until they are turned in and have been inputted. As such the only part of the current process where anyone (besides the dealer and you) know there may be a firearm transfer is if the back ground check is done. In which case there is nothing relating the the particular firearm you have purchased.

    So I think that shop is blowing steam... its not rocket science.

  6. #6
    Regular Member sccrref's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sccrref View Post
    VA code 18.2-308.2:2 P. Except as provided in subdivisions 1, 2, and 3 of this subsection, it shall be unlawful for any person who is not a licensed firearms dealer to purchase more than one handgun within any 30-day period. A violation of this subsection shall be punishable as a Class 1 misdemeanor.

    This says purchase. It says nothing about how many background checks you can have in a 30 day period.
    OP said that the check was ran and came back approved. It was then that he changed his mind about purchasing the gun. He was aking if the first approval counted as a purchase. I was saying that a purchase is a purchase and that a background check is not a purchase.

  7. #7
    Regular Member SirTiger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sccrref View Post
    OP said that the check was ran and came back approved. It was then that he changed his mind about purchasing the gun. He was aking if the first approval counted as a purchase. I was saying that a purchase is a purchase and that a background check is not a purchase.
    Oh, my bad! Saying the same with different words.

  8. #8
    Regular Member SouthernBoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sccrref View Post
    VA code 18.2-308.2:2 P. Except as provided in subdivisions 1, 2, and 3 of this subsection, it shall be unlawful for any person who is not a licensed firearms dealer to purchase more than one handgun within any 30-day period. A violation of this subsection shall be punishable as a Class 1 misdemeanor.

    This says purchase. It says nothing about how many background checks you can have in a 30 day period.
    There are two exceptions to this. One is if you are a holder of a CHP. The other is if you are trading/replacing a handgun.
    In the final seconds of your life, just before your killer is about to dispatch you to that great eternal darkness, what would you rather have in your hand? A cell phone or a gun?

    Si vis pacem, para bellum.

    America First!

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    Thanks for all the great responses. and clarification. At first I was buying into what the shop owner was saying, and thought well maybe one background check in 30 days, but the more I thought about it something didn't seem quite right, because I had not made a purchase, and I didn't think it would be wise of him to have indicated that I had. I think he was upset that I changed my mind. I didn't want to go to another store and try to make a purchase and have it denied because a background check had been done within 30 days. I think I will give him a chance to meet the competions price and if not go elsewhere.

    Thanks again;

    Ric

  10. #10
    Regular Member Thundar's Avatar
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    If a handgun sale is not completed after a check is conducted the dealer must inform the state police. It is in the Virginia Dealers handbook.
    He wore his gun outside his pants for all the honest world to see. Pancho & Lefty

    The millions of people, armed in the holy cause of liberty, and in such a country as that which we possess, are invincible by any force which our enemy can send against us....There is no retreat but in submission and slavery! ...The war is inevitable–and let it come! I repeat it, Sir, let it come …………. PATRICK HENRY speech 1776

  11. #11
    Founder's Club Member - Moderator ed's Avatar
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    My Pocket Pistol BUG is a Ruger LCP .380. Soon to be replaced by a SAME SIVE, Kimber Solo 9mm as soon as it comes in.
    Carry On.

    Ed

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    Quote Originally Posted by Thundar View Post
    If a handgun sale is not completed after a check is conducted the dealer must inform the state police. It is in the Virginia Dealers handbook.
    Now isn't that interesting. So it would seem if he followed the law, and notified the state police that the sale was not completed, and I decide I want to purchase from him he would have to run another background check just as any other store would, or is he able to use the original approval for the 30 day period? Also, his statement of I would not be able to buy another gun for 30 days does not hold water, because I actually did not buy.
    Last edited by Ric R; 07-02-2011 at 09:25 PM.

  13. #13
    Founder's Club Member - Moderator ed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ric R View Post
    he would have to run another background check
    Yep, cuz it is for the GUN you are puchasing (I think)
    Carry On.

    Ed

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  14. #14
    Regular Member SirTiger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ed View Post
    Yep, cuz it is for the GUN you are puchasing (I think)
    Er I dont believe so... the only reason for that would be if you intended to buy a pistol and changed your mind for a revolver or rifle or whatever combo you want.

    I'll have to double check.
    Last edited by SirTiger; 07-02-2011 at 10:26 PM.

  15. #15
    Regular Member sccrref's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernBoy View Post
    There are two exceptions to this. One is if you are a holder of a CHP. The other is if you are trading/replacing a handgun.
    Yes, they are covered by the subdivisions 1, 2 and 3. I did not copy in the entire part of the code in order to save some space.

  16. #16
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    A 380 is a good ankle gun, but not a primary gun for self defense. (in my opinion) I have seen the 380s jam too often on the range.

    While not a fan of Glock, I do believe there are plenty of 9mm firearms out there that are compact and it is powerful enough for a primary gun.

    I carry a 45 ACP or a 40, but that is just my preference. I am reminded of how nice a 9mm is every time I buy a box of ammo. 9mm is less than ˝ the cost of either of mine.

    Good luck on what ever you choose.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SirTiger View Post
    Er I dont believe so... the only reason for that would be if you intended to buy a pistol and changed your mind for a revolver or rifle or whatever combo you want.

    I'll have to double check.
    So, you think if I go back and buy a gun from the dealer who ran the original background check within 30 days, that he won't have to run another background check? That is kind of what the dealer was telling me. The check was good for 30 days.

  18. #18
    Regular Member Gunslinger's Avatar
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    No it's not. It would be for a different serial number and a new check is required. But the 30 day rule doesn't apply if you didn't buy anything the first time. Easier to get a CCW in VA and not worry about the 30 day rule.
    "For any man who sheds his blood with me this day shall be my brother...And gentlemen now abed shall think themselves accursed, they were not here, and hold their manhoods cheap whilst any speaks who fought with us on Crispin's day." Henry V

  19. #19
    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gunslinger View Post
    Easier to get a CCW in VA and not worry about the 30 day rule.
    Blasphemy!
    You Spruce Yuppies have strange ideas.

    Maybe it'd be easier yet if Va just had gun owner licenses where everyone that owned guns just filled out an annual form. No test or fee, just a quick and simple shall issue registration.

    NOTE:
    Just to get the syntax right, even though this is NOT a permit board....In Virginia, it's CHP, not CCW!
    Concealed Handgun Permit
    Last edited by peter nap; 07-03-2011 at 01:53 PM.

  20. #20
    Activist Member nuc65's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post
    Blasphemy!
    You Spruce Yuppies have strange ideas.

    Maybe it'd be easier yet if Va just had gun owner licenses where everyone that owned guns just filled out an annual form. No test or fee, just a quick and simple shall issue registration.

    NOTE:
    Just to get the syntax right, even though this is NOT a permit board....In Virginia, it's CHP, not CCW!
    Concealed Handgun Permit
    Good comment, incl. sarcasm.
    When I carry a gun, I don't do so because I am looking for a fight, but because I'm looking to be left alone. The gun at my side means that I cannot be forced, only persuaded. I don't carry it because I'm afraid, but because it enables me to be unafraid. It doesn't limit the actions of those who would interact with me through reason, only the actions of those who would do so by force.

    excerpt By Marko Kloos (http://munchkinwrangler.wordpress.com/?s=major+caudill)

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    I just picked up a Glock 19 Gen4 on the 15th of June to be my primary OC/CC even though I've yet to find a CC holster for it I really like just yet. I've just been OC'ing it with me every day everywhere.

    As SouthernBoy stated, the Gen4s have a few problems. Some have been worked out, but it still sounds like there are some still being sold that are being problematic. Check out the Glock Talk forums for more details. I have around 850 rounds through mine and have had two issues.

    The very first mag I put through it failed to lock the slide back which I'm still not sure if that was truly an issue, or if my thumb accidentally hit the slide lock. The second issue was a double feed yesterday afternoon after about 300 rounds had gone through it. One of the issues mentioned were with the extractors being used, and it's possible that's what the issue was this time, or it's possible I limp wristed. The Gen4 extractors have issues with weak and erratic ejection patterns (thrown over left side of gun, in your face, or left behind in the ejection port causing a jam, etc).

    The main issue of debate is the recoil spring. The G19 originally shipped with a recoil spring marked 0-3 which was actually the .40 S&W recoil spring which I guess was an attempt at Glock to save money. They revised the spring (made it weaker) to better handle 115 gr target ammo and stamped that one 0-4. There's a third revision currently being shipped marked 0-4-1 to further correct issues. You'll find on the Glock Talk forums people with each spring, early production runs and new production runs of the gun either having no issues or tons of issues. It's a lot of information to sort through to figure out what exactly is going on, and whether or not the Glock 19 Gen4 is worth a chance.

    I took the chance, and mine has the 0-4 recoil spring. Frankly I think the two issues I experienced were mostly caused by user error, and 2 "failures" in 800 rounds is acceptable to me. The gun has never failed to go bang, and that's what I care about.

    Oh, and by the way, if you decide you don't want to deal with the Gen4's "problems" (which are most likely blown out of proportion), you will still have to deal with new copies of the Gen3. While you get the old recoil spring setup, they are shipping with these new extractors so you'll likely be left in the same boat as far as weak extractions and/or a jam from lack of extraction. Some are buying Lone Wolf extractors as they are cast like the older copies thus providing stronger and more consistent extractions. Again, I'm still running a stock setup as the extractions (even to the face) are not something that bothers me. I wear a hat and eye protection when I shoot and just consider extractions hitting me to be just another part of shooting.

    Sorry for the long post, but I hope it gives you some idea of what to expect if you haven't yet done any research. By far the best research I think you can do, is to head over to YouTube and check out the videos by hickok45 on the Glock 19 Gen4. He takes a brand new copy straight out of the box and it through it's paces with various target ammo:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FTGC0Lo2JgE
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t_hvykDHCIw
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5rDSB9JAqo

    If you do end up getting it I'm sure you'll enjoy it as much as I've been enjoying mine. I've never been a fan of Glocks, but this one changed my mind.

  22. #22
    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nuc65 View Post
    Good comment, incl. sarcasm.
    Well, just for Ric's benefit since he's new and hasn't read my usual rants

    There is nothing really wrong with getting a CHP.
    A CHP is permission from the state to hide a handgun...period.

    Open carry is a right in Virginia, has always been considered so and needs no permission.

    The permits are considered a rite of passage by some (Sorta like getting a drivers license) but many grow out of it. Some people because of employment or other pressures, have to conceal. I have no problems with that.

    Gun registration is a political death sentence for politicians in this state. Support it and plan on becoming a McDonalds Manager for future employment but a Shall Issue Permit can be the back door to registration.

    Perks have been added to create an elite class of gun owners (Perks For Permits, P4P) like more than one gun in 30 days and carry on National Forest out of season or carry during Bow hunting or BP hunting or High Cap Mags in certain areas, carry in the GA Building...so on.

    This is to induce more people to get permits. IN other words, Gun Registration will not pass but GunOwner Registration will if people are stupid enough to fall for it.

    There are untold sites dedicated to concealed carry. Many are opposed to OC. Some of the most dedicated Anti's in the state like Lori Haas or Goddards old man, freely admit they aren't really anti, they just want everyone to have a permit so the state can control who has them and how they carry guns.

    This site is dedicated to the RIGHT of open carry even though a majority also have permits to conceal.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gunslinger View Post
    No it's not. It would be for a different serial number and a new check is required. But the 30 day rule doesn't apply if you didn't buy anything the first time. Easier to get a CCW in VA and not worry about the 30 day rule.
    Then the dealer lied to me, thinking I would be sure to come back to him if I couldn't go elsewhere for 30 days. The ironey is I planned to go back to him once I did more research, but now probably won't.

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    Wow some more great Information:
    Gunslinger thanks for the information, not pleased the dealer lied to me.

    Chammer, I appreciate all the info on the G 19. I rented both a Gen3 19 and 26 at the Marksman and ran 50 rounds through each and was quite impressed with them both. Fun to shoot, low recoil, and I found them extremely accurate. However, I was not aware of the Gen 4 problems. I actually thought one of the Gen 4 upgrades was to improve the recoil springs. I have been to Glock Talk, but not spent time there yet, but I am planning on doing so as well as watch the video links you sent.

    Peter, I just thought you were having a bad day!!!!!! lol :-) Actually, kidding asside, I understand where you are coming from, and I respect that, and have nothing against open carry. Personnally, I want the CHP so that I have the option to do either, and also not have to worry about putting on a coat in the winter that will cover my weapon if I am OC 'ing.

    This is a great site and I appreciate all the comments, and help.

    Ric

  25. #25
    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ric R View Post
    Peter, I just thought you were having a bad day!!!!!! lol :-) Actually, kidding asside, I understand where you are coming from, and I respect that, and have nothing against open carry.
    Ric

    I'm actually in a kinder, gentler mode today

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