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Gun Purchase Question?

chammer

Regular Member
Joined
May 27, 2011
Messages
47
Location
Newport News, VA
I just picked up a Glock 19 Gen4 on the 15th of June to be my primary OC/CC even though I've yet to find a CC holster for it I really like just yet. I've just been OC'ing it with me every day everywhere.

As SouthernBoy stated, the Gen4s have a few problems. Some have been worked out, but it still sounds like there are some still being sold that are being problematic. Check out the Glock Talk forums for more details. I have around 850 rounds through mine and have had two issues.

The very first mag I put through it failed to lock the slide back which I'm still not sure if that was truly an issue, or if my thumb accidentally hit the slide lock. The second issue was a double feed yesterday afternoon after about 300 rounds had gone through it. One of the issues mentioned were with the extractors being used, and it's possible that's what the issue was this time, or it's possible I limp wristed. The Gen4 extractors have issues with weak and erratic ejection patterns (thrown over left side of gun, in your face, or left behind in the ejection port causing a jam, etc).

The main issue of debate is the recoil spring. The G19 originally shipped with a recoil spring marked 0-3 which was actually the .40 S&W recoil spring which I guess was an attempt at Glock to save money. They revised the spring (made it weaker) to better handle 115 gr target ammo and stamped that one 0-4. There's a third revision currently being shipped marked 0-4-1 to further correct issues. You'll find on the Glock Talk forums people with each spring, early production runs and new production runs of the gun either having no issues or tons of issues. It's a lot of information to sort through to figure out what exactly is going on, and whether or not the Glock 19 Gen4 is worth a chance.

I took the chance, and mine has the 0-4 recoil spring. Frankly I think the two issues I experienced were mostly caused by user error, and 2 "failures" in 800 rounds is acceptable to me. The gun has never failed to go bang, and that's what I care about.

Oh, and by the way, if you decide you don't want to deal with the Gen4's "problems" (which are most likely blown out of proportion), you will still have to deal with new copies of the Gen3. While you get the old recoil spring setup, they are shipping with these new extractors so you'll likely be left in the same boat as far as weak extractions and/or a jam from lack of extraction. Some are buying Lone Wolf extractors as they are cast like the older copies thus providing stronger and more consistent extractions. Again, I'm still running a stock setup as the extractions (even to the face) are not something that bothers me. I wear a hat and eye protection when I shoot and just consider extractions hitting me to be just another part of shooting.

Sorry for the long post, but I hope it gives you some idea of what to expect if you haven't yet done any research. By far the best research I think you can do, is to head over to YouTube and check out the videos by hickok45 on the Glock 19 Gen4. He takes a brand new copy straight out of the box and it through it's paces with various target ammo:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FTGC0Lo2JgE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t_hvykDHCIw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5rDSB9JAqo

If you do end up getting it I'm sure you'll enjoy it as much as I've been enjoying mine. I've never been a fan of Glocks, but this one changed my mind. :)
 

peter nap

Accomplished Advocate
Joined
Oct 16, 2007
Messages
13,551
Location
Valhalla
Good comment, incl. sarcasm.

Well, just for Ric's benefit since he's new and hasn't read my usual rants:lol:

There is nothing really wrong with getting a CHP.
A CHP is permission from the state to hide a handgun...period.

Open carry is a right in Virginia, has always been considered so and needs no permission.

The permits are considered a rite of passage by some (Sorta like getting a drivers license) but many grow out of it. Some people because of employment or other pressures, have to conceal. I have no problems with that.

Gun registration is a political death sentence for politicians in this state. Support it and plan on becoming a McDonalds Manager for future employment but a Shall Issue Permit can be the back door to registration.

Perks have been added to create an elite class of gun owners (Perks For Permits, P4P) like more than one gun in 30 days and carry on National Forest out of season or carry during Bow hunting or BP hunting or High Cap Mags in certain areas, carry in the GA Building...so on.

This is to induce more people to get permits. IN other words, Gun Registration will not pass but GunOwner Registration will if people are stupid enough to fall for it.

There are untold sites dedicated to concealed carry. Many are opposed to OC. Some of the most dedicated Anti's in the state like Lori Haas or Goddards old man, freely admit they aren't really anti, they just want everyone to have a permit so the state can control who has them and how they carry guns.

This site is dedicated to the RIGHT of open carry even though a majority also have permits to conceal.
 

Ric R

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 26, 2011
Messages
16
Location
Carrollton, Va
No it's not. It would be for a different serial number and a new check is required. But the 30 day rule doesn't apply if you didn't buy anything the first time. Easier to get a CCW in VA and not worry about the 30 day rule.

Then the dealer lied to me, thinking I would be sure to come back to him if I couldn't go elsewhere for 30 days. The ironey is I planned to go back to him once I did more research, but now probably won't.
 

Ric R

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 26, 2011
Messages
16
Location
Carrollton, Va
Wow some more great Information:
Gunslinger thanks for the information, not pleased the dealer lied to me.

Chammer, I appreciate all the info on the G 19. I rented both a Gen3 19 and 26 at the Marksman and ran 50 rounds through each and was quite impressed with them both. Fun to shoot, low recoil, and I found them extremely accurate. However, I was not aware of the Gen 4 problems. I actually thought one of the Gen 4 upgrades was to improve the recoil springs. I have been to Glock Talk, but not spent time there yet, but I am planning on doing so as well as watch the video links you sent.

Peter, I just thought you were having a bad day!!!!!! lol :) Actually, kidding asside, I understand where you are coming from, and I respect that, and have nothing against open carry. Personnally, I want the CHP so that I have the option to do either, and also not have to worry about putting on a coat in the winter that will cover my weapon if I am OC 'ing.

This is a great site and I appreciate all the comments, and help.

Ric
 

peter nap

Accomplished Advocate
Joined
Oct 16, 2007
Messages
13,551
Location
Valhalla
Peter, I just thought you were having a bad day!!!!!! lol :) Actually, kidding asside, I understand where you are coming from, and I respect that, and have nothing against open carry.
Ric


I'm actually in a kinder, gentler mode today:lol:
 

SirTiger

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 5, 2010
Messages
32
Location
Richmond
So, you think if I go back and buy a gun from the dealer who ran the original background check within 30 days, that he won't have to run another background check? That is kind of what the dealer was telling me. The check was good for 30 days.

Im only talking if you are at the counter within the same instance.

Or if you have not walked out of the store with the purchased firearm.

If you came back to my store after purchasing and leaving with the firearm within 30 days (aside of store policy) I'd re-run the check.
 

The Wolfhound

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 3, 2009
Messages
728
Location
Henrico, Virginia, USA
Of course with Constitutional Carry....

All the issues of who and how to carry just sort of fizzle away. I OC, I CC. Take the state out of it. It should be none of their business......"Shall not be infringed" ring a bell anyone?
 

Gunslinger

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 6, 2008
Messages
3,853
Location
Free, Colorado, USA
Blasphemy!
You Spruce Yuppies have strange ideas.

Maybe it'd be easier yet if Va just had gun owner licenses where everyone that owned guns just filled out an annual form. No test or fee, just a quick and simple shall issue registration.

NOTE:
Just to get the syntax right, even though this is NOT a permit board....In Virginia, it's CHP, not CCW!
Concealed Handgun Permit

Lived in VA for a few years. Stay away from the Beltway ******** and it's a nice state...for being on the losing end of the Civil War...:> I use CCW generically. If you want to really be technical, it can be called a 'concealed carry warrant' using the common law definition of 'warrant.' Had a VA license. Took 10 days to get. Very nice process if you have a DD-214. But your suggestion is the best, not just for the Old Dominion, as long as they destroyed the paperwork afterwards.
 

peter nap

Accomplished Advocate
Joined
Oct 16, 2007
Messages
13,551
Location
Valhalla
..for being on the losing end of the Civil War...:>

There was nothing Civil about the war of Northern aggression:p
and it ain't over till it's over.

The supposed surrender is null because there was alcohol involved. We just signed on the wrong line!:uhoh:
 

Gunslinger

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 6, 2008
Messages
3,853
Location
Free, Colorado, USA
Wow some more great Information:
Gunslinger thanks for the information, not pleased the dealer lied to me.

Chammer, I appreciate all the info on the G 19. I rented both a Gen3 19 and 26 at the Marksman and ran 50 rounds through each and was quite impressed with them both. Fun to shoot, low recoil, and I found them extremely accurate. However, I was not aware of the Gen 4 problems. I actually thought one of the Gen 4 upgrades was to improve the recoil springs. I have been to Glock Talk, but not spent time there yet, but I am planning on doing so as well as watch the video links you sent.

Peter, I just thought you were having a bad day!!!!!! lol :) Actually, kidding asside, I understand where you are coming from, and I respect that, and have nothing against open carry. Personnally, I want the CHP so that I have the option to do either, and also not have to worry about putting on a coat in the winter that will cover my weapon if I am OC 'ing.

This is a great site and I appreciate all the comments, and help.

Ric

What we 'all' agree on is the day must come when "shall not be infringed" means exactly that. No permit, no unloaded open carry, no BS of any type. In every state and village; city and town. And cops understand the bad guys are their target, not citizens exercising the rights a lot of good men and women have defended--even with their lives, and they have sworn to protect and defend. VA, NH, CO and many others have come to that conclusion at least partially; more work to be done. It is a great site. Lot's to learn about and share.

Glocks are great guns, not my cup of tea, though. Springs can make a big difference in them, I've heard. Check with Wolff. What they don't know about springs isn't worth knowing.
 

Gunslinger

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 6, 2008
Messages
3,853
Location
Free, Colorado, USA
Im only talking if you are at the counter within the same instance.

Or if you have not walked out of the store with the purchased firearm.

If you came back to my store after purchasing and leaving with the firearm within 30 days (aside of store policy) I'd re-run the check.

Unless you are buying multiple firearms at the same time, an NICS is required for every serial number to be purchased. It's kind of stupid, but then so is the whole system. I've had to run two in one day when I returned a pistol that was not functional and bought the exact same thing. Other times, have had two serial numbers on one check. Just the way it is. Now a good dealer wouldn't charge for the second check, but as you say, that's store policy.
 

Gunslinger

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 6, 2008
Messages
3,853
Location
Free, Colorado, USA
There was nothing Civil about the war of Northern aggression:p
and it ain't over till it's over.

The supposed surrender is null because there was alcohol involved. We just signed on the wrong line!:uhoh:

Yeah, but U.S. gave Bobby Lee some of his best Kentucky blend...
 

peter nap

Accomplished Advocate
Joined
Oct 16, 2007
Messages
13,551
Location
Valhalla
Yeah, but U.S. gave Bobby Lee some of his best Kentucky blend...

images
 

Ric R

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 26, 2011
Messages
16
Location
Carrollton, Va
Im only talking if you are at the counter within the same instance.

Or if you have not walked out of the store with the purchased firearm.

If you came back to my store after purchasing and leaving with the firearm within 30 days (aside of store policy) I'd re-run the check.

I appreciate everyone's input, but I'm just trying to figure out what my options are for purchasing:

I thought I wanted to buy a Body Guard 380. Dealer ran background check. While I was waiting I decided I wanted do more research before purchase. Back Ground check came back approved. I told dealer I changed my mind, and I left the building. That was about a week ago. No purchase was made, just the check performed.

I don't want to go to another dealer and have him run check for purchase and have it come back I had purchased within 30 days. Since I don't have a CHP that could cause problems. Original dealer says I can buy from him during 30 days and he will just have to change the gun info on the form. However there are better prices to be had if I go else where. Just not sure if I shouild wait until after the 30 days to try.
 

SirTiger

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 5, 2010
Messages
32
Location
Richmond
Unless you are buying multiple firearms at the same time, an NICS is required for every serial number to be purchased. It's kind of stupid, but then so is the whole system. I've had to run two in one day when I returned a pistol that was not functional and bought the exact same thing. Other times, have had two serial numbers on one check. Just the way it is. Now a good dealer wouldn't charge for the second check, but as you say, that's store policy.

There is NO serial number entry when you check someones background at the time of purchase. Yes you can have the NCIS check serial numbers and yes the serial number will be recorded once the paper work is entered. But for the general background check that is completed you only enter the type of firearm.

When you purchase from an FFL dealer in Virginia they are not checking their guns, they are checking you.
 
Last edited:

peter nap

Accomplished Advocate
Joined
Oct 16, 2007
Messages
13,551
Location
Valhalla
There is NO serial number entry when you check someones background at the time of purchase. Yes you can have the NCIS check serial numbers and yes the serial number will be recorded once the paper work is entered. But for the general background check that is completed you only enter the type of firearm.

When you purchase from an FFL dealer in Virginia they are not checking their guns, they are checking you.

I think Gunslinger is confusing Virginia's instant background check with either the Federal forms or Colorado's Instant Check.
 

Citizen

Founder's Club Member
Joined
Nov 15, 2006
Messages
18,269
Location
Fairfax Co., VA
I think Gunslinger is confusing Virginia's instant background check with either the Federal forms or Colorado's Instant Check.

Well, certainly I'm confused.

I'm just gonna go have me some of Bobby Lee's adult beverage. And, it ain't gonna be no blend neither. Single malt, thank you very much. A few of those, and I won't care whether this thread is confusing.

:)
 

speed41ae

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 2, 2010
Messages
281
Location
Richmond, VA
I tried to buy a handgun at a show and did not get it because the check took to long. A couple of weeks later I tried to buy a different handgun at a shop and got flagged because they thought I had bought the handgun at the show. I had to redo the paperwork using my carry permit to buy the second handgun even though I never actual bought the first.
 

Riana

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 23, 2008
Messages
943
Location
Fairfax County, VA
I thought I wanted to buy a Body Guard 380. Dealer ran background check. While I was waiting I decided I wanted do more research before purchase. Back Ground check came back approved. I told dealer I changed my mind, and I left the building. That was about a week ago. No purchase was made, just the check performed.
I had a customer do this when I worked at a gun shop. She was delayed, and while delayed, she changed her mind. I called the State Police and told them the background check did not result in a purchase - a "No Sale" transaction. She came back a week later and purchased a different gun, with no problem (no CHP either).

Can you contact the dealer and ask if he contacted VSP regarding that background check, to ensure VSP was notified no sale was made? You would still probably have to pay for the background check you had done, of course (the dealer has to pay for it once submitted, no matter the result). But then you should be in the clear on purchasing something else.

If you decide to make another purchase in the next 30 days, and your background check gets delayed, ask the dealer for the VSP phone number. Contact VSP directly, and tell them exactly what happened - that you had a background check run by Dealer-So-and-So on such-and-such a date, and that no sale resulted from the transaction, so the 30 day rule should not apply. Might help.
 
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