open carry with a shoulder holster

jfrey123 said:

Those chest rigs are popular with hunters carrying big revolvers. I think they're pretty impractical for daily carry in town.

This is a real chest rig:

http://i68.photobucket.com/albums/i23/jeff_bennion/Guns/The_Boondock_Saints_-_Il_Duce.jpg

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That is some rig. What do you think? May be 50 plus pounds of guns ammo and rig?

MAC702 said:

You're violating Rule #1 about pointing a firearm (and a loaded one at that) at things you do not wish to destroy, even though the person behind you doesn't know there is a gun pointed at them.

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Actually you are referencing Rule #2 here, with #1 being "All guns are always loaded." Regarding Rule #2, to directly quote Colonel Jeff Cooper, "A firearm holstered properly, lying on a table, or placed in a scabbard is of no danger to anyone. Only when handled is there a need for concern. This rule applies to fighting as well as to daily handling." (emphasis mine) In other words, a horizontal shoulder holster in no way violates Rule #2.

MAC702 said:

It's infinitely more disrespectful (even if we put aside Rule #1 for holstered weapons) to have people whom you don't even know looking down the muzzle of your firearm.

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Disrespectful? Sorry, no, not any more than the average carrier is being disrespectful with the cant of his belt holster pointing the muzzle of his pistol at the legs and feet of those who are standing or walking near him. If you don't agree, take it up with the man who wrote the rules.

Like the rest of you, I place my right to carry and to protect myself and my loved ones above the nervous feelings of hoplophobes, and this applies whether I'm doing executive protection or buying groceries at the corner market. Feel free to carry as you wish, and I'll do the same.

Las Vegan, for some reason I had thought that was a still shot of a movie character in your avatar. Must've been the Sepia tone.

Think hard about a horizontal holster. It is no fun at all looking at the muzzle when you're standing in line behind a shoulder holster carrier. Anybody behind you in line at the grocery store, etc., is going to see the muzzle pointed right at them.

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I don't have any thoughts on those holsters, but I do know that some of the shoulder holsters have the muzzle end covered. Leather wouldn't stop a bullet, but that way no one would actually see the muzzle.

Las Vegan said:

Actually you are referencing Rule #2 here, with #1 being "All guns are always loaded." Regarding Rule #2, to directly quote Colonel Jeff Cooper, "A firearm holstered properly, lying on a table, or placed in a scabbard is of no danger to anyone. Only when handled is there a need for concern. This rule applies to fighting as well as to daily handling." (emphasis mine) In other words, a horizontal shoulder holster in no way violates Rule #2.
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Yep, you're right, that would be Rule #2 in most books. I was typing faster than I was thinking. But to say a horizontal shoulder holster "in no way violates Rule #2" seems misleading Perhaps you are rather inferring that it does not unduly violate Rule#2. If you draw, you are handling, and it seems disadvantageous to need to know who is behind you (the need for the draw is usually in front of you). Perhaps even more likely though, would be times when you must disarm/rearm, like the Vancouver court house I was reading about in another thread. I'm not going to be pedantic about it and say such holsters should not exist, but you can't ignore their extra concerns either.

As for disrespectful, absolutely. Seeing straight down someone's muzzle must be said to be more disrespectful than noticing that the cant of a holster points it at a foot (though there would be some merit to an argument that we should avoid this as well.)

The most dangerous things most people do when it comes to firearms is drawing, reholstering, loading, and unloading.

This is just my personal opinion. I would reserve horizontal shoulder holsters to concealed carry so as to only focus on the safety concerns. I recognize that many consider it the best choice for them.

Mac, two points that you address: the fact that standing behind someone wearing a horizontal shoulder holster with an open muzzle causes one to be staring at the muzzle of a pistol, and the fact that a drawn weapon sweeps everything that it is pointed towards.

Point one - you seem to be saying that a safely holstered pistol oriented towards your head is more "disrespectful" than a safely holstered pistol which is pointed towards your leg. I do not see how respect enters into the equation any more than safety does. Sorry. There are those who say that carrying a weapon at all is disrespectful because it upsets certain people. I would assume that your definition of "disrespectful" is not the same as theirs.

Point two - when a weapon is drawn from its holster, it sweeps everything in its path, regardless of its original orientation when it was holstered, and it continues to do so until it is safely reholstered. This is an unavoidable fact that applies to shoulder holsters, belt holsters, belly bands, ankle holsters, "Thunderwear," fanny packs, purses, day planners, and anything else that you can think of. You may argue that a weapon drawn from a belt holster sweeps fewer objects, but that is not the same as saying that a weapon drawn from a horizontal shoulder holster sweeps objects and a weapon drawn from a belt holster does not. Again, sorry.

Respect and safety, two issues that we should be much more cognizant of than the average citizen.

Felid`Maximus said:

Las Vegan, for some reason I had thought that was a still shot of a movie character in your avatar.

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Lol, nope, just my grumpy mug.

Anyway, all of these points, including respect, safety, and someone trying to school me on Colonel Cooper (haha), were addressed almost exactly a year ago on this very forum in this thread. Apparently it's just going to come down to personal opinion, so do as you are comfortable and so shall I.

Getting back to the OP, yes, a shoulder holster without a jacket over it would be considered open carry.

I find that the easiest carry options to draw from in my daily situations, including behind the wheel of my car and sitting in a chair at my desk at work, are appendix carry, cross-draw belt holster, and shoulder holster. These positions are also the easiest for me to protect from a gun grabber without resorting to deep-cover carry, and of the three only the shoulder holster is still concealed under an unbuttoned suit jacket. If you are not comfortable with the shoulder holster for perceived safety or respect issues you might want to consider getting into the habit of wearing a belt, at which point your carry options will be tremendously increased.

Las Vegan, I don't think we disagree much. While I am no fan of horizontal shoulder holsters for reasons mentioned, I concede that their differences are not TOO significantly different to unwarrant their use. But I will point out those differences to those who consider them.

Yes, my definition of respect would be VERY different from those who would ignorantly use the term to disarm us. But I will maintain there is a difference in sweeping a 3-foot circle about your feet and sweeping everyone in the room. Wait, I shouldn't have really said "sweeping" there as the sidearm is not being "handled" but perhaps you see my point and I'm too tired to think of a more appropriate synonym.

I have seen the difference in the look of people noticing an OC'er and the same people noticing the horizontal shoulder holster in front of them on another OC'er. I've been OC'ing in Las Vegas for 19 years.

Shoulder Holster for Winter Carry

I just purchased a shoulder holster to be able to open carry in winter without having to worry about a coat possibly obscuring a belt holster. It is not my preferred way to carry and will take some getting used to, but I do not want to run afoul of the law.

Never mind I just realized I posted on a dead thread.