detroit_fan
Regular Member
All it takes is a little judicial activism in this case and OC will be gone in MI. If anyone thinks that our reps would pass a new law allowing OC if it is ruled illegal is mistaken, it wouldn't happen.
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Shadow Bear
Michigan Moderator
Sorry you feel that way. If you feel that pi$$ing off the fence sitters is an effective strategy, have at it; let me know how it works out for you.:banana:
xd shooter
Regular Member
Tell me what's the difference between your belief that Open carry is OK, as long as someone doesn't do *****, and the CC crowd who claim to defend the 2A but say open carriers are going to ruin it for all of us?
Same thing from the hunters that claim there's no good reason for anyone to own an AR-15 and sales of "assault weapons" should be regulated.
It's that kind of thinking that's gotten us in the mess we're in today with gun control. They say that they don't want gun control, they just want to restrict certain things, or actions, or particular guns or types of guns, or the number of bullets in your mag, that's all. What harm can there be in that?
If calling that hypocritical pisses you off, then so be it.
Same thing from the hunters that claim there's no good reason for anyone to own an AR-15 and sales of "assault weapons" should be regulated.
It's that kind of thinking that's gotten us in the mess we're in today with gun control. They say that they don't want gun control, they just want to restrict certain things, or actions, or particular guns or types of guns, or the number of bullets in your mag, that's all. What harm can there be in that?
If calling that hypocritical pisses you off, then so be it.
Big Gay Al
Michigan Moderator
I'm wondering, how many of us live in the area of CADL? And how many of us have CADL library cards? If we had some sort of semi-decent numbers, we might make a show of burning our library cards. Granted, it's only symbolism, but it would make a point.
Boycotting the library for trampling on our basic human rights.
It was just an idea that I had.
Boycotting the library for trampling on our basic human rights.
It was just an idea that I had.
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B
Bikenut
Guest
Here is a thought....
If OC is judged to be the crime of "brandishing" then could an accidental exposure of any part of a CC'd pistol... or perhaps even printing... also be considered "brandishing"?
If OC is judged to be the crime of "brandishing" then could an accidental exposure of any part of a CC'd pistol... or perhaps even printing... also be considered "brandishing"?
autosurgeon
Regular Member
It is in other states!
pmcqueen37
Regular Member
My thought on this, if OC is brandishing then all patrol cops are brandishing.
DanM
Regular Member
detroit_fan said:
All it takes is a little judicial activism in any case at any time to affect any of your rights. Judicial activism negatively affecting innumerable of our liberties has happened, does happen, and will happen in the future.
Either you're telling us something we already know, or you're making a new point which I'm completely missing.
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Bailenforcer
Regular Member
It is all about common sense and not pushing buttons to see what happens, the three idiots involved in this did it just to push buttons and everyone knew this. now the public is seeing that "in your face" attempt at pushing buttons for what it was. It had NOTHING to do with lawful carry and it was all about seeing if we can piss someone off and most everyone here knows this based on the past stupidity by this trio. So now we will all suffer the results of this. Judging by the idiots remarks I guess no one read what I posted I carried a M-4 in Detroit for years and NOT once was I questioned. I have open carried sine the mid 1970's and only once was I questioned so why am I different? Maybe because I don't act some some in your face idiot? I lost count how many people came up to me while I open carried and how many THANKED ME for doing so including Law Enforcement.
No matter what some of you keep missing as the point it remains the point that some people have an attitude of IN YOUR FACE and human beings reject this as a part of the human experience as hostile. It didn't work at Ponderosa despite the cackles of success and it wouldn't work at CADL. One must measure what he does and make sure what he does is responsible and does not come off as a confrontational act as it did.
The few in here that refuse to get the obvious are part of the problem and they obviously have NO clue about human interactions because they have problems constantly. The rest of you need to ask a simple question while you look in the mirror. "Why do some people constantly have negative experiences while so many others have NO negative or few bad experiences?"
It is such an OBVIOUS question, yet no one has the courage to ask it, because they are so worried about being unpopular with others on this site. Well guess what folks I don't give a damn about my popularity with idiots and I do give a damn about my rights being DESTROYED by the idiots.
PDINDETROIT I am thankful you were there to stop an idiot from further damaging our cause, you should be commended for having so much foresight and common sense that sadly a few others fail to have.
I have learned not only as a detective but also as a Union rep for one of the largest Unions in the State that how you present yourself is everything. if you come off as reckless and have no regard for others and are all about a personal mission people will see that in you. And sadly from everyone I have talked to behind the scenes this was stated in one form or another and the Ponderosa and CADL were nothing more than personal missions for attention. Well they got just that at the expense of everyone else. So thanks you for helping trash my rights.
PDINDETROIT thank you for that selfless act with the Ruger 10/22 if you had not done what you did we would all have once again suffered from the SELFISH acts of others.
There is a time and place for everything, and real men think things through, they don't blunder into things like idiots, hurting everyone in the process.
No matter what some of you keep missing as the point it remains the point that some people have an attitude of IN YOUR FACE and human beings reject this as a part of the human experience as hostile. It didn't work at Ponderosa despite the cackles of success and it wouldn't work at CADL. One must measure what he does and make sure what he does is responsible and does not come off as a confrontational act as it did.
The few in here that refuse to get the obvious are part of the problem and they obviously have NO clue about human interactions because they have problems constantly. The rest of you need to ask a simple question while you look in the mirror. "Why do some people constantly have negative experiences while so many others have NO negative or few bad experiences?"
It is such an OBVIOUS question, yet no one has the courage to ask it, because they are so worried about being unpopular with others on this site. Well guess what folks I don't give a damn about my popularity with idiots and I do give a damn about my rights being DESTROYED by the idiots.
PDINDETROIT I am thankful you were there to stop an idiot from further damaging our cause, you should be commended for having so much foresight and common sense that sadly a few others fail to have.
I have learned not only as a detective but also as a Union rep for one of the largest Unions in the State that how you present yourself is everything. if you come off as reckless and have no regard for others and are all about a personal mission people will see that in you. And sadly from everyone I have talked to behind the scenes this was stated in one form or another and the Ponderosa and CADL were nothing more than personal missions for attention. Well they got just that at the expense of everyone else. So thanks you for helping trash my rights.
PDINDETROIT thank you for that selfless act with the Ruger 10/22 if you had not done what you did we would all have once again suffered from the SELFISH acts of others.
There is a time and place for everything, and real men think things through, they don't blunder into things like idiots, hurting everyone in the process.
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Bailenforcer
Regular Member
having an idiot who can't keep his nose clean and stay out of trouble ever is not one I want representing me. if you find that okay then speak for yourself please. My history of defending gun rights goes way back into the 1970's and guess what? I never once made myself the cause or tried to be some celebrity. These actions by three people are the actions of people who are not out for your good they are SELF serving and dangerous and some have a distinct reputation with Law Enforcement as being trouble long before they decided to take up this cause.
Maybe we should call OJ Simpson to represent us? he's well known and gets attention. There are two kinds of attention, positive and negative and we rally behind those who always gain negative attention? You don't see a problem here? if not call Pearl Vision for an appointment.
Idiots who constantly cause problems with Law Enforcement do not represent me. PERIOD!
What shocks me is the complete lack of moral courage here and those who fail to state the obvious out of fear of being somehow unpopular.
Maybe we should call OJ Simpson to represent us? he's well known and gets attention. There are two kinds of attention, positive and negative and we rally behind those who always gain negative attention? You don't see a problem here? if not call Pearl Vision for an appointment.
Idiots who constantly cause problems with Law Enforcement do not represent me. PERIOD!
What shocks me is the complete lack of moral courage here and those who fail to state the obvious out of fear of being somehow unpopular.
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Shadow Bear
Michigan Moderator
Trying to influence the general public is a little like feeding peanuts to a ground squirrel.
You have to lead them gently, placing the peanuts at a distance from yourself initially, then closer & closer as they begin to trust you. Pretty soon, they're eating out of your hand.
Some here would seem to believe that grabbing the little critter and forcing the peanut down its throat is a better strategy. 'EAT THIS, ITS GOOD FOR YOU!' they shout. 'God gave us dominion over all the creatures of the world, so its my RIGHT to force feed you this peanut, and you better enjoy it!'
You can bet that squirrel will NEVER trust another human again.
'A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky, dangerous animals, and you know it.' Agent K, Men in Black
You have to lead them gently, placing the peanuts at a distance from yourself initially, then closer & closer as they begin to trust you. Pretty soon, they're eating out of your hand.
Some here would seem to believe that grabbing the little critter and forcing the peanut down its throat is a better strategy. 'EAT THIS, ITS GOOD FOR YOU!' they shout. 'God gave us dominion over all the creatures of the world, so its my RIGHT to force feed you this peanut, and you better enjoy it!'
You can bet that squirrel will NEVER trust another human again.
'A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky, dangerous animals, and you know it.' Agent K, Men in Black
paul@paul-fisher.com
Regular Member
Whatever. :cuss:
Let me guess, you would of been the one saying to Rosa Parks "Don't rock the boat, go sit in the back of the bus, the police might come beat us". Or, on 7/4/1776, you would of told the guys wanting to sign the Declaration of Independence "We might ger in trouble!"
I have found that most of the supposed ardent supporters of 2nd amendment rights usually have caveats.
I have little use for people like you.
detroit_fan
Regular Member
Maybe you know it, but I was just trying to prepare those that I see saying "no problem, we'll win this." Those same people also said we would win the first round, and we didn't. I just have the feeling this is going to turn out very bad, maybe to the point of accidental exposure or printing becoming brandishing. We can't even get a pro-gun bill to the floor, and no way would they pass a new open carry law. Our entire open carry law hangs on 1 ruling now.
xd shooter
Regular Member
The simple fact is that some here are demonizing someone for exercising their constitutional right, something that was NOT illegal (was he arrested?).
We as OC'ers in general get demonized by the CC only crowd for doing the EXACT same thing, exercising our constitutional right, something NOT illegal.
YOU say he was garnering attention, trying to make a statement, scaring the general public, getting the police called for no good reason, by carrying an AR-15 to a library. YOU say "It is all about common sense and not pushing buttons to see what happens"
THEY (the CC only Crowd) say we're only garnering attention, trying to make a statement, scaring the general public, getting the police called for no good reason, because we have our guns openly displayed on our hips. THEY say "It is all about common sense and not pushing buttons to see what happens"
See the hypocrisy here? Do YOU get tee'd off by the CC only crowd when they say that we SHOULD "cover it up"? When they say "all we're doing is causing trouble"? When they say "that we're only going to make it harder in Michigan to carry for self defense"?
The Rosa Parks analogy is PERFECTLY apt in this discussion. She was pushing the limits of the day but doing something that was perfectly within her right. Yet she was told by OTHER blacks to "not cause trouble", "don't make it harder on the rest of us", and I APPLAUD her courage. Where's yours?
We as OC'ers in general get demonized by the CC only crowd for doing the EXACT same thing, exercising our constitutional right, something NOT illegal.
YOU say he was garnering attention, trying to make a statement, scaring the general public, getting the police called for no good reason, by carrying an AR-15 to a library. YOU say "It is all about common sense and not pushing buttons to see what happens"
THEY (the CC only Crowd) say we're only garnering attention, trying to make a statement, scaring the general public, getting the police called for no good reason, because we have our guns openly displayed on our hips. THEY say "It is all about common sense and not pushing buttons to see what happens"
See the hypocrisy here? Do YOU get tee'd off by the CC only crowd when they say that we SHOULD "cover it up"? When they say "all we're doing is causing trouble"? When they say "that we're only going to make it harder in Michigan to carry for self defense"?
The Rosa Parks analogy is PERFECTLY apt in this discussion. She was pushing the limits of the day but doing something that was perfectly within her right. Yet she was told by OTHER blacks to "not cause trouble", "don't make it harder on the rest of us", and I APPLAUD her courage. Where's yours?
Not saying you're wrong.. maybe you did see some of this, but I didn't see much, if anyone saying that we were going to win rd. one... I heard much of just the opposite... that we expected to LOSE, especially given the judge and her obvious bias...
As far as rd. 2, I think people are scared s***less... and they should be! It's scary as hell!!!
Bailenforcer
Regular Member
smellslikemichigan
Campaign Veteran
Haman J.T.
New member
You mean tax payer dollars.The citizens should be made aware of this!
PDinDetroit
Regular Member
Please stop the bickering. It is NUGATORY.
Haman J.T.
New member
Better to fight now and educate the citizens of their STATE RIGHTS(which the majority of citizens don't know) now,than wait until ,God forbid,we get an anti gun govenor,appeals court and supreme court! Time to send PC back to hell where it came from!