New to openly carrying

First off, I am not new to this website, I just haven't had a need to post before. I follow alot of OC and CC websites, so most of the newbie knowledge has been gleaned, I just haven't started to OC in public yet. I OC in my house and on my property at the moment and will soon be bring the baby out with me in life.

I do have one major piece of knowledge that is lacking to me, and as yet I can't use the search function properly to figure it out, nor does google help so I am coming here to my more knowledgeable peers to ask. I understand in Virginia I can OC in my car, meaning I don't have to lock it in it's own container unloaded, but the definition of visible as opposed to concealed is vague in the matter of a vehicle.

If my sidearm is properly holstered on my hip (right side) and not covered by clothing, is that considered proper vehicular OC? or does it have to be in particular places so as to be clearly visible by LEO's in a stop?

I may have more questions later, but I'd rather not clutter up this thread till this one is answered. Thanks.

-Baked

Yes, that is considered proper OC in a vehicle. Check out the Virginia Citizens Defense League. It is a great group dedicated to gun rights in VA. If you go to their website you can sign up for VA-ALERT (on the right side of the page) which is a free email system that will keep you informed about everything gun-related going on in the state. The website is http://www.vcdl.org

Wonderful, then I would assume this to be true of riding a motorcycle also then?

I am aware of VCDL and been a member to some time now, it's just the quirks of vehicular OC were nagging at me since I couldn't find a straight answer on the websites I've searched. In all honesty it's harder to find a particular direct answer over there than it is here with the search function, but I am glad.

Will be OC-ing in the wild once my SERPA-lock holster arrives... wouldn't want to make it easy for someone to grab my 9mm from me.

-Baked

Baked on Grease said:

Wonderful, then I would assume this to be true of riding a motorcycle also then?

I am aware of VCDL and been a member to some time now, it's just the quirks of vehicular OC were nagging at me since I couldn't find a straight answer on the websites I've searched. In all honesty it's harder to find a particular direct answer over there than it is here with the search function, but I am glad.

Will be OC-ing in the wild once my SERPA-lock holster arrives... wouldn't want to make it easy for someone to grab my 9mm from me.

-Baked

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Open carry on a bike is fine as long as your shirt/jacket does not blow and cover the firearm. Of course if you have a CHP would not matter.

A number of members here ride.

Welcome to the site and the free world Grease...(Interesting name:lol

I ride and even in the winter, just tuck your jacket behind the gun and holster and you're fine.
Grapeshot and I have been discussing a zippered slit being put in our jackets to make a little neater OC.

Depends on the cop...

One of the main functions of the legal system is supposed to be the reliability and predictability that makes it possible for one to govern his affairs in a law-abiding manner. But magistrates in Virginia are not lawyers, let alone attorneys, and they tend to rubber-stamp cops' decisions about probable cause to arrest. So it really depends on whether the cop is a good one, a bad one, or an average one (they're pretty much like anyone else, some are really good, some are really bad, and most are average). You could have the misfortune to meet the bad one.

What I can tell you is that you'll have a very good defense at trial. (Assuming you get a good lawyer. There are lot of "gun-friendly" lawyers out there who really just want more business and don't actually like guns anymore than the folks at the Washington Pravda do. Those guys will give the court proceedings the appearance of due process and you'll go out the side door and never see your gun again if you get one. They'll low-ball the price and then talk you into a plea-bargain because they won't have prepared for trial.)

Sorry to be so negative, because most of the time, you won't have any problem at all carrying as you describe, and at worst, you'll be "disarmed for officer safety".

One (or perhaps a few) of the members here posted two examples which are good indicators/tests for the legality of OC'ing in their stated scenarios. I'd like to think these same scenarios would apply to carrying in a vehicle.

You are standing at a magazine rack, perusing the current offerings with your strong side hidden from common observation. An LEO wanders up and a few moments later, you turn a little which reveals your "hidden" piece. Was it concealed?

The other scenario was you and your wife arrive at a restaurant and are shown to a booth where you slide in, strong side to the wall. Is your firearm concealed?

The answer to both of these is "yes" in the sense that it is not visible for a period of time but "no" in the sense that deliberate concealment was not of your making or intent. Let's face it. When you open carry there are always going to be moments when your firearm is not visible to someone. The fact that you are carrying your gun openly in a holster is enough to satisfy the fact that the gun is not "hidden from common observation". As for when in a car, just make sure that a shirt, jacket, or coat does not cover your gun as you side in the seat and you should be fine. And be aware of what user wrote above.

SouthernBoy said:

One (or perhaps a few) of the members here posted two examples which are good indicators/tests for the legality of OC'ing in their stated scenarios. I'd like to think these same scenarios would apply to carrying in a vehicle.

You are standing at a magazine rack, perusing the current offerings with your strong side hidden from common observation. An LEO wanders up and a few moments later, you turn a little which reveals your "hidden" piece. Was it concealed?

The other scenario was you and your wife arrive at a restaurant and are shown to a booth where you slide in, strong side to the wall. Is your firearm concealed?

The answer to both of these is "yes" in the sense that it is not visible for a period of time but "no" in the sense that deliberate concealment was not of your making or intent. Let's face it. When you open carry there are always going to be moments when your firearm is not visible to someone. The fact that you are carrying your gun openly in a holster is enough to satisfy the fact that the gun is not "hidden from common observation". As for when in a car, just make sure that a shirt, jacket, or coat does not cover your gun as you side in the seat and you should be fine. And be aware of what user wrote above.

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Right - reminds me of a warranty case I read in law school - the purchaser of a new car complained that the car had no radio, that it was important to him, and that he'd informed the dealer that he needed the radio. When he drove away in the car without his money, it occurred to him to listen to the radio, but behold, there was none. The court's opinion said, "If it was so important to you, you should have looked before you accepted delivery". I think this rule applies to the concealed weapon statute - if, Mr. Cop, it was so important to you, you shoulda looked. They always testify about how they've had special training in observation skills. Heard that stuff just today in Pr. Wm. GDC, btw. So my definition of "hidden from common observation" is, "not readily perceptible to one who bothers to look."

user said:

Right - reminds me of a warranty case I read in law school - the purchaser of a new car complained that the car had no radio, that it was important to him, and that he'd informed the dealer that he needed the radio. When he drove away in the car without his money, it occurred to him to listen to the radio, but behold, there was none. The court's opinion said, "If it was so important to you, you should have looked before you accepted delivery". I think this rule applies to the concealed weapon statute - if, Mr. Cop, it was so important to you, you shoulda looked. They always testify about how they've had special training in observation skills. Heard that stuff just today in Pr. Wm. GDC, btw. So my definition of "hidden from common observation" is, "not readily perceptible to one who bothers to look."

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Thanks, user. I have hope in the age old concept of common sense having a place in human endeavors. I have to believe that it would be next to impossible to account for every human activity with a law, policy, procedure, or requirement. The Lord gave most of us a measure of common sense. I'm happy that a fair share of the recipients of said common sense reside in our fine commonwealth of Virginia. I would also hope a few wear the badge we allow them to wear.