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Thread: New gun owner got answer for carry gun to shooting range

  1. #1
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    New gun owner got answer for carry gun to shooting range

    Hi, I've just purchased a handgun recently, and I was wondering if it is legal to carry a handgun (not loaded) inside backpack on bus/public transportation to shooting range? If not, how does one go to shooting range without a car? I don't want to waste money on Taxi.

    PS: I live in San Francisco, California.

  2. #2
    Regular Member Gundude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Warthog45acp View Post
    Hi, I've just purchased a handgun recently, and I was wondering if it is legal to carry a handgun (not loaded) inside backpack on bus/public transportation to shooting range? If not, how does one go to shooting range without a car? I don't want to waste money on Taxi.

    PS: I live in San Francisco, California.
    Lock the backpack and you're good to go. Don't tell anyone that you are carrying.
    A citizen may not be required to offer a ―good and substantial reason-- why he should be permitted to exercise his rights. The right‘s existence is all the reason he needs.

  3. #3
    State Pioneer ConditionThree's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Warthog45acp View Post
    Hi, I've just purchased a handgun recently, and I was wondering if it is legal to carry a handgun (not loaded) inside backpack on bus/public transportation to shooting range? If not, how does one go to shooting range without a car? I don't want to waste money on Taxi.

    PS: I live in San Francisco, California.
    Yes, you can transport an unloaded handgun to and from a shooting range.

    The following exemptions apply;

    12026.1 a) Section 12025 shall not be construed to prohibit any
    citizen of the United States over the age of 18 years who resides or
    is temporarily within this state, and who is not prohibited by state
    or federal law from possessing, receiving, owning, or purchasing a
    firearm, from transporting or carrying any pistol, revolver, or other
    firearm capable of being concealed upon the person, provided that
    the following applies to the firearm:
    (1) The firearm is within a motor vehicle and it is locked in the
    vehicle's trunk or in a locked container in the vehicle other than
    the utility or glove compartment.

    (2) The firearm is carried by the person directly to or from any
    motor vehicle for any lawful purpose and, while carrying the firearm,
    the firearm is contained within a locked container.
    (b) The provisions of this section do not prohibit or limit the
    otherwise lawful carrying or transportation of any pistol, revolver,
    or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person in
    accordance with this chapter.
    (c) As used in this section, "locked container" means a secure
    container which is fully enclosed and locked by a padlock, key lock,
    combination lock, or similar locking device.


    626.9 (a) This section shall be known, and may be cited, as the
    Gun-Free School Zone Act of 1995.
    (b) Any person who possesses a firearm in a place that the person
    knows, or reasonably should know, is a school zone, as defined in
    paragraph (1) of subdivision (e), unless it is with the written
    permission of the school district superintendent, his or her
    designee, or equivalent school authority, shall be punished as
    specified in subdivision (f).
    (c) Subdivision (b) does not apply to the possession of a firearm
    under any of the following circumstances:
    (2) When the firearm is an unloaded pistol, revolver, or other
    firearm capable of being concealed on the person and is in a locked
    container or within the locked trunk of a motor vehicle.
    Bear in mind, that the container must remain locked for the entire time you are transporting in public, or you will be carrying a 'concealed weapon' or in 'possession of a firearm' in a GFSZ.

    ETA; There is a shooting range in San Fransisco? Did Gandalf cast a spell to thwart the evil in Mordor to make such a fantasy possible?
    Last edited by ConditionThree; 07-04-2011 at 08:00 PM.
    New to OPEN CARRY in California? Click and read this first...

    NA MALE SUBJ ON FOOT, LS NB 3 AGO HAD A HOLSTERED HANDGUN ON HIS RIGHT HIP. WAS NOT BRANDISHING THE WEAPON, BUT RP FOUND SUSPICIOUS.
    CL SUBJ IN COMPLIANCE WITH LAW


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    Quote Originally Posted by ConditionThree View Post
    ETA; There is a shooting range in San Fransisco? Did Gandalf cast a spell to thwart the evil in Mordor to make such a fantasy possible?
    Close by is Jackson Arms in south SF, Target masters in Milpitas, Bullseye Precision in San Rafael, and Coyote Point in San Leandro.
    Last edited by Army; 07-05-2011 at 09:56 AM.

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    First, I want to thank ConditionThree for the helpful information, and I have a question, isn't there a shooting range in San Francisco called the pacific Rod & Gun Club? located at 520 John Muir Drive on the southwestern shore of beautiful Lake Merced. It is near both Ocean Beach and San Francisco Zoo. http://prgc.net/our-location/
    Or is it no longer opens?

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    Thank you, but how about Caltrain? do you search your stuff before you check in & check out?

    [QUOTE=ConditionThree;1566954]Yes, you can transport an unloaded handgun to and from a shooting range.

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    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter bigtoe416's Avatar
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    At one point there was a trap/skeet range at Lake Merced. I've never been there or seen it but supposedly it exists.

    They don't search bags on Caltrain, there's way too many people getting on and off at once to make that feasible.

    Just be wary of "sterile areas". If for some random reason they are searching bags, then that may be a sterile area and you'd be violating PC 171.7 by entering that area. The chances of that happening are extremely low though.

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    Thanks bigtoe416, now I think I decided to take Caltrain to Jackson Arms located at South San Francisco. With pistol unloaded and put inside a locked hard gun case inside backpack.


    Quote Originally Posted by bigtoe416 View Post
    At one point there was a trap/skeet range at Lake Merced. I've never been there or seen it but supposedly it exists.

    They don't search bags on Caltrain, there's way too many people getting on and off at once to make that feasible.

    Just be wary of "sterile areas". If for some random reason they are searching bags, then that may be a sterile area and you'd be violating PC 171.7 by entering that area. The chances of that happening are extremely low though.
    Last edited by Warthog45acp; 07-06-2011 at 11:14 AM.

  9. #9
    Regular Member We-the-People's Avatar
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    So let's just think a little here......the below law gives me an interesting idea. Doesn't do anything to help with the SD function of carrying but definitely would push some buttons.....

    Lets say I build a holster of material similar to a Serpa...some sort of composite or injection molded material. It's a hard shell, shaped just like a firearm (though over sized) and the firearm is contained within that holster. It is equipped with a locking mechanism that incorporates either:
    1) a "handprint" with push buttons at the fingertips as seen in some home gunsafes
    2) an electronic lock and key set with the "key" being in the form of a ring on the finger
    3) Some other electronic locking device.

    When the lock is latched the weapon is completely unseen and LOCKED in the case.

    Actuating the lock with the key (whichever method is chosen for the mechanism) the top of the holster pops open under spring tension and the weapon is raised to "grip position" so that you can then insert your loaded magazine (or the side falls away to allow the same action).

    The weapon is IN A LOCKED CONTAINER and it is UNLOADED so it is neither openly carried nor does it meet the definition of a concealed weapon (because it is locked in a case and unloaded).

    HOWEVER....LEO will be abolutely sure that there is a weapon in that case (if the law doesn't prevent it in some other section the outer facing shell could even be made transparent). BUT...since it's in a locked case, it's not open carried, and wouldn't that preclude 12031 (e) as well as require a search warrant to unlock the case?

    Also, does the unloaded requiremnt (while in the locked case) only apply within the GFSZ?

    12026.1 a) (2) has no unloaded requirement, only locked case.
    526.9 (c) (2) has the unloaded requirement even though in a locked case.



    12026.1 a) Section 12025 shall not be construed to prohibit any
    citizen of the United States over the age of 18 years who resides or
    is temporarily within this state, and who is not prohibited by state
    or federal law from possessing, receiving, owning, or purchasing a
    firearm, from transporting or carrying any pistol, revolver, or other
    firearm capable of being concealed upon the person, provided that
    the following applies to the firearm:
    (1) The firearm is within a motor vehicle and it is locked in the
    vehicle's trunk or in a locked container in the vehicle other than
    the utility or glove compartment.
    (2) The firearm is carried by the person directly to or from any
    motor vehicle for any lawful purpose and, while carrying the firearm,
    the firearm is contained within a locked container.
    (b) The provisions of this section do not prohibit or limit the
    otherwise lawful carrying or transportation of any pistol, revolver,
    or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person in
    accordance with this chapter.
    (c) As used in this section, "locked container" means a secure
    container which is fully enclosed and locked by a padlock, key lock,
    combination lock, or similar locking device.

    626.9 (a) This section shall be known, and may be cited, as the
    Gun-Free School Zone Act of 1995.
    (b) Any person who possesses a firearm in a place that the person
    knows, or reasonably should know, is a school zone, as defined in
    paragraph (1) of subdivision (e), unless it is with the written
    permission of the school district superintendent, his or her
    designee, or equivalent school authority, shall be punished as
    specified in subdivision (f).
    (c) Subdivision (b) does not apply to the possession of a firearm
    under any of the following circumstances:
    (2) When the firearm is an unloaded pistol, revolver, or other
    firearm capable of being concealed on the person and is in a locked
    container or within the locked trunk of a motor vehicle.
    "The Second Amendment speaks nothing to an unfettered Right". (Post # 100)
    "Restrictions are not infringements. Bans are infringements.--if it reaches beyond Reasonable bans". (Post # 103)
    Beretta92FSLady
    http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/sh...ons-Bill/page5

    Disclaimer: I am not a lawyer, nothing in any of my posts should be considered legal advice. If you need legal advice, consult a reputable attorney, not an internet forum.

  10. #10
    State Pioneer ConditionThree's Avatar
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    L.u.c.c.

    Quote Originally Posted by We-the-People View Post
    So let's just think a little here......the below law gives me an interesting idea. Doesn't do anything to help with the SD function of carrying but definitely would push some buttons.....

    Lets say I build a holster of material similar to a Serpa...some sort of composite or injection molded material. It's a hard shell, shaped just like a firearm (though over sized) and the firearm is contained within that holster. It is equipped with a locking mechanism that incorporates either:
    1) a "handprint" with push buttons at the fingertips as seen in some home gunsafes
    2) an electronic lock and key set with the "key" being in the form of a ring on the finger
    3) Some other electronic locking device.

    When the lock is latched the weapon is completely unseen and LOCKED in the case.

    Actuating the lock with the key (whichever method is chosen for the mechanism) the top of the holster pops open under spring tension and the weapon is raised to "grip position" so that you can then insert your loaded magazine (or the side falls away to allow the same action).

    The weapon is IN A LOCKED CONTAINER and it is UNLOADED so it is neither openly carried nor does it meet the definition of a concealed weapon (because it is locked in a case and unloaded).

    HOWEVER....LEO will be abolutely sure that there is a weapon in that case (if the law doesn't prevent it in some other section the outer facing shell could even be made transparent). BUT...since it's in a locked case, it's not open carried, and wouldn't that preclude 12031 (e) as well as require a search warrant to unlock the case?

    Also, does the unloaded requiremnt (while in the locked case) only apply within the GFSZ?

    12026.1 a) (2) has no unloaded requirement, only locked case.
    626.9 (c) (2) has the unloaded requirement even though in a locked case.
    Youre making this way more complicated than it needs to be...

    Allow me to try to clarify.

    12031 criminalizes the loaded firearm- not 12025 or 626.9. And then it only applies to incorporated territory OR areas where discharge is prohibited by local ordinance.

    The case need only be fully enclosed and locked. Having it gun shaped and a locking mechanism rely on biometrics or other technology is over-thought.

    The question you really should be asking is; Is a locked, fully enclosed case sufficient probable cause to demand a 12031(e) check? Think about it- if there is no evidence that a gun is present, is there any justification for the officer to demand a loaded inspection on a firearm he can only speculate exists inside a fully enclosed locked case? Transporting this way the handgun is not concealed, not openly carried, not loaded, and not violating the imaginary naughty line of the school zones. Is that same officer justified in demanding a search of a locked case to satisfy his curiosity as to whether a firearm is present?
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

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    New to OPEN CARRY in California? Click and read this first...

    NA MALE SUBJ ON FOOT, LS NB 3 AGO HAD A HOLSTERED HANDGUN ON HIS RIGHT HIP. WAS NOT BRANDISHING THE WEAPON, BUT RP FOUND SUSPICIOUS.
    CL SUBJ IN COMPLIANCE WITH LAW


    Support the 2A in California - Shop Amazon for any item and up to 15% of all purchases go back to the Calguns Foundation. Enter through either of the following links
    www.calgunsfoundation.org/amazon
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  11. #11
    Regular Member Firemark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ConditionThree View Post
    Youre making this way more complicated than it needs to be...

    Allow me to try to clarify.

    12031 criminalizes the loaded firearm- not 12025 or 626.9. And then it only applies to incorporated territory OR areas where discharge is prohibited by local ordinance.

    The case need only be fully enclosed and locked. Having it gun shaped and a locking mechanism rely on biometrics or other technology is over-thought.

    The question you really should be asking is; Is a locked, fully enclosed case sufficient probable cause to demand a 12031(e) check? Think about it- if there is no evidence that a gun is present, is there any justification for the officer to demand a loaded inspection on a firearm he can only speculate exists inside a fully enclosed locked case? Transporting this way the handgun is not concealed, not openly carried, not loaded, and not violating the imaginary naughty line of the school zones. Is that same officer justified in demanding a search of a locked case to satisfy his curiosity as to whether a firearm is present?
    Does bring up an interesting point which is that the mere visual presence of the firearm as seen by every day ordinary citzens and LEO's is the sheeple scaring issue. I think the whole ban it or keep it concealed is to just lull people into feeling safe.

    If the legislature goes thru and gets UOC banned, and the collective "we" are unable to get it removed by court order, then I would definitley consider carrying a locked case that is both transparent and lockable with spring loaded release carried on the hip.
    I mean really its going to get to the point of sheer lunacy and stupidity banning the 2A, but of course I wouldnt put it past the legislature to next year immediatley ban clear transparent plastic cases with unloaded handguns in them.

    Remember we have to think about the children!!!

    My new start up company..
    TPS Gun Holsters ....(Transparent, Plastic, Spring-loaded)
    New to OPEN CARRY? Click here first

    "Gun owners in California in 2011 are like black people in the south in 1955. If you don't understand that then your concepts of fighting for gun rights is just tilting at windmills." Gene Hoffman.

    "Why do you need to carry a gun?" ...Because it not a Bill of Needs, its a Bill of Rights!!

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    Regular Member We-the-People's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firemark View Post
    My new start up company..
    TPS Gun Holsters ....(Transparent, Plastic, Spring-loaded)
    PM me for instructions on where to send the royalty/license payments.


    The argument about PC could be a very interesting one. Imagine a group of citizens gathering at a well known open carrier "hangout" (think Starbucks) all wearing one of these (non transparent) holsters.....the police show up, the citizens stand by their rights, the cops can't get into the cases......

    Would there be a mass arrest because the cops THINK there are firearms inside the cases even though they can not see them? What then happens when none of the cases are eventually found to have firearms in them?

    The time has come to be more aggressive in tactics. TACTICS not physical action. Press them, set up the cases that will cause cities to pay out large sums in civil rights violation settlements. Take the bull by the horns.
    "The Second Amendment speaks nothing to an unfettered Right". (Post # 100)
    "Restrictions are not infringements. Bans are infringements.--if it reaches beyond Reasonable bans". (Post # 103)
    Beretta92FSLady
    http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/sh...ons-Bill/page5

    Disclaimer: I am not a lawyer, nothing in any of my posts should be considered legal advice. If you need legal advice, consult a reputable attorney, not an internet forum.

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    Regular Member Firemark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by We-the-People View Post
    PM me for instructions on where to send the royalty/license payments.


    The argument about PC could be a very interesting one. Imagine a group of citizens gathering at a well known open carrier "hangout" (think Starbucks) all wearing one of these (non transparent) holsters.....the police show up, the citizens stand by their rights, the cops can't get into the cases......

    Would there be a mass arrest because the cops THINK there are firearms inside the cases even though they can not see them? What then happens when none of the cases are eventually found to have firearms in them?

    The time has come to be more aggressive in tactics. TACTICS not physical action. Press them, set up the cases that will cause cities to pay out large sums in civil rights violation settlements. Take the bull by the horns.
    Make sure the "cases" look like gun cases, and are carrying equivelant weight to appear like a gun (ballast bag), and a sturdy lock. and make sure there is a copy of the 4th ammendment inside in big bold letters. Of course dont forget to film it and have a prominent gun lawyer at the meet up to observe first hand.
    New to OPEN CARRY? Click here first

    "Gun owners in California in 2011 are like black people in the south in 1955. If you don't understand that then your concepts of fighting for gun rights is just tilting at windmills." Gene Hoffman.

    "Why do you need to carry a gun?" ...Because it not a Bill of Needs, its a Bill of Rights!!

  14. #14
    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter bigtoe416's Avatar
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    See this thread Firemark for prior art: http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/sh...tainer-Holster

    Not an identical idea, but quite similar.

  15. #15
    Regular Member cato's Avatar
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    The 4A issue of a search/loaded check absent a warrant is already on the litigation chopping block in Richard v Harris:

    http://www.hoffmang.com/firearms/bri...2011-05-20.pdf


    Quote Originally Posted by We-the-People View Post
    So let's just think a little here...



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    Quote Originally Posted by Firemark View Post
    Make sure the "cases" look like gun cases, and are carrying equivelant weight to appear like a gun (ballast bag), and a sturdy lock. and make sure there is a copy of the 4th ammendment inside in big bold letters. Of course dont forget to film it and have a prominent gun lawyer at the meet up to observe first hand.
    Yeah I can't see why no one has filed a "Suit for Injunction "against the LEO's who violate your 4A.
    That's what this all comes down to.
    A statute or code don't trump the "Bill of Rights". Robin47

  17. #17
    Regular Member cato's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robin47 View Post
    Yeah I can't see why no one has filed a "Suit for Injunction "against the LEO's who violate your 4A...

    A statute or code don't trump the "Bill of Rights". Robin47
    Um..Richard v Harris does that too.

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    What prevents 12025 from being enforced if you have it in a locked container but you are not in a vehicle?

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    State Pioneer ConditionThree's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Felid`Maximus View Post
    What prevents 12025 from being enforced if you have it in a locked container but you are not in a vehicle?
    12026.2 I believe.
    New to OPEN CARRY in California? Click and read this first...

    NA MALE SUBJ ON FOOT, LS NB 3 AGO HAD A HOLSTERED HANDGUN ON HIS RIGHT HIP. WAS NOT BRANDISHING THE WEAPON, BUT RP FOUND SUSPICIOUS.
    CL SUBJ IN COMPLIANCE WITH LAW


    Support the 2A in California - Shop Amazon for any item and up to 15% of all purchases go back to the Calguns Foundation. Enter through either of the following links
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  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by We-the-People View Post
    So let's just think a little here......the below law gives me an interesting idea. Doesn't do anything to help with the SD function of carrying but definitely would push some buttons.....

    Lets say I build a holster of material similar to a Serpa...some sort of composite or injection molded material. It's a hard shell, shaped just like a firearm (though over sized) and the firearm is contained within that holster. It is equipped with a locking mechanism that incorporates either:
    1) a "handprint" with push buttons at the fingertips as seen in some home gunsafes
    2) an electronic lock and key set with the "key" being in the form of a ring on the finger
    3) Some other electronic locking device.

    When the lock is latched the weapon is completely unseen and LOCKED in the case.

    Actuating the lock with the key (whichever method is chosen for the mechanism) the top of the holster pops open under spring tension and the weapon is raised to "grip position" so that you can then insert your loaded magazine (or the side falls away to allow the same action).

    The weapon is IN A LOCKED CONTAINER and it is UNLOADED so it is neither openly carried nor does it meet the definition of a concealed weapon (because it is locked in a case and unloaded).

    HOWEVER....LEO will be abolutely sure that there is a weapon in that case (if the law doesn't prevent it in some other section the outer facing shell could even be made transparent). BUT...since it's in a locked case, it's not open carried, and wouldn't that preclude 12031 (e) as well as require a search warrant to unlock the case?

    Also, does the unloaded requiremnt (while in the locked case) only apply within the GFSZ?

    12026.1 a) (2) has no unloaded requirement, only locked case.
    526.9 (c) (2) has the unloaded requirement even though in a locked case.



    12026.1 a) Section 12025 shall not be construed to prohibit any
    citizen of the United States over the age of 18 years who resides or
    is temporarily within this state, and who is not prohibited by state
    or federal law from possessing, receiving, owning, or purchasing a
    firearm, from transporting or carrying any pistol, revolver, or other
    firearm capable of being concealed upon the person, provided that
    the following applies to the firearm:
    (1) The firearm is within a motor vehicle and it is locked in the
    vehicle's trunk or in a locked container in the vehicle other than
    the utility or glove compartment.
    (2) The firearm is carried by the person directly to or from any
    motor vehicle for any lawful purpose and, while carrying the firearm,
    the firearm is contained within a locked container.
    (b) The provisions of this section do not prohibit or limit the
    otherwise lawful carrying or transportation of any pistol, revolver,
    or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person in
    accordance with this chapter.
    (c) As used in this section, "locked container" means a secure
    container which is fully enclosed and locked by a padlock, key lock,
    combination lock, or similar locking device.

    626.9 (a) This section shall be known, and may be cited, as the
    Gun-Free School Zone Act of 1995.
    (b) Any person who possesses a firearm in a place that the person
    knows, or reasonably should know, is a school zone, as defined in
    paragraph (1) of subdivision (e), unless it is with the written
    permission of the school district superintendent, his or her
    designee, or equivalent school authority, shall be punished as
    specified in subdivision (f).
    (c) Subdivision (b) does not apply to the possession of a firearm
    under any of the following circumstances:
    (2) When the firearm is an unloaded pistol, revolver, or other
    firearm capable of being concealed on the person and is in a locked
    container or within the locked trunk of a motor vehicle.
    OH MY!!! This is an excellent idea for a holster and one I would seriously consider buying! But, would it work... especially if it it clear? Conditionthree... does your set-up allow you through school zones then? Could you legally conceal your locked case?

  21. #21
    State Pioneer ConditionThree's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by yawn View Post
    Conditionthree... does your set-up allow you through school zones then? Could you legally conceal your locked case?
    Because a secure locked case is an exemption to both 626.9 and 12025, the law is not being violated when one transports an unloaded handgun in this manner. Prohibitions in public buildings, on school grounds, at post offices are all unaffected.
    New to OPEN CARRY in California? Click and read this first...

    NA MALE SUBJ ON FOOT, LS NB 3 AGO HAD A HOLSTERED HANDGUN ON HIS RIGHT HIP. WAS NOT BRANDISHING THE WEAPON, BUT RP FOUND SUSPICIOUS.
    CL SUBJ IN COMPLIANCE WITH LAW


    Support the 2A in California - Shop Amazon for any item and up to 15% of all purchases go back to the Calguns Foundation. Enter through either of the following links
    www.calgunsfoundation.org/amazon
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  22. #22
    Campaign Veteran EXTREMEOPS1's Avatar
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    But can you make ready .....

    Quote Originally Posted by ConditionThree View Post
    Because a secure locked case is an exemption to both 626.9 and 12025, the law is not being violated when one transports an unloaded handgun in this manner. Prohibitions in public buildings, on school grounds, at post offices are all unaffected.
    In two seconds from your locked carry holster? Be pretty useless in my eyes as a self defense weapon if you can't make ready....fumbling with the combo lock in the dark ...you guys are killing me lol
    "There is only one tactical principle which is not subject to change. It is to use the means at hand to inflict the maximum amount of wound, death, and destruction on the enemy in the minimum amount of time."

    - General George S. Patton, Jr.

  23. #23
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    It looks like 12026.2 would work if you could prove that you were going directly to or from a shooting range, as the topic of this thread is.

    On a slightly different note, it seems on the CA boards I sometimes hear people discuss LUCC as if it could be a general defense method... it appears to me that 12026.2 would provide no protection against 12025 for on foot LUCC in the absence of traveling directly between specific locations. ( http://law.onecle.com/california/penal/12026.2.html )
    Last edited by Felid`Maximus; 07-14-2011 at 01:29 AM.

  24. #24
    State Pioneer ConditionThree's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EXTREMEOPS1 View Post
    In two seconds from your locked carry holster? Be pretty useless in my eyes as a self defense weapon if you can't make ready....fumbling with the combo lock in the dark ...you guys are killing me lol
    No one is making any claim that this is effective self defense. I hate this only slightly more than concealed carry and you can only imagine my response (assuming i survive) a life threatening altercation.
    New to OPEN CARRY in California? Click and read this first...

    NA MALE SUBJ ON FOOT, LS NB 3 AGO HAD A HOLSTERED HANDGUN ON HIS RIGHT HIP. WAS NOT BRANDISHING THE WEAPON, BUT RP FOUND SUSPICIOUS.
    CL SUBJ IN COMPLIANCE WITH LAW


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  25. #25
    Campaign Veteran EXTREMEOPS1's Avatar
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    So the real answer is to have......

    Quote Originally Posted by ConditionThree View Post
    No one is making any claim that this is effective self defense. I hate this only slightly more than concealed carry and you can only imagine my response (assuming i survive) a life threatening altercation.
    Loaded open carry as it's good enough for the cops and should be good enough for the citizens ......(we can only wish and dream that scenario in Kalifornia!)
    "There is only one tactical principle which is not subject to change. It is to use the means at hand to inflict the maximum amount of wound, death, and destruction on the enemy in the minimum amount of time."

    - General George S. Patton, Jr.

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