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Thread: Semi-Negative LEO Encounter

  1. #1
    Regular Member jahwarrior72's Avatar
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    Semi-Negative LEO Encounter

    I took a walk to Carvel yesterday with my son. When I say walk, I mean I walked, while he slept in his stroller. Four blocks and a lot of sweat later, I walked up to the window, ordered an orange vanilla swirl, and walked over to the bench off to the side. There were two local PD patrolmen there. One of them approached me, holding his hand up. His partner walked off nonchalantly to my right side, keeping my gun in view.

    Cop #1: "Hey, buddy, what's up with that?"

    Me: "What's up with what?"

    Cop #1: "What's up with that gun? You need to conceal that."

    Me: "No, I don't. You know I don't. You know it's legal in Pennsylvania, everyone in your department received the updated memo on the legality of open carry."

    Cop #1: "What do you know about it our training?"

    Me: "I know about it. That should be enough. Did you get it?"

    Cop #1: "Sure, we got it, but I still think it's stupid to be doing that."

    Cop #2: "Wow, he's a cutie. What's his name?"

    Me, to my 2 month old son: "Don't say a word without a lawyer, son." I thought that might get a laugh out of them, but it didn't. Oh well.

    Cop #1: "What do you do for a living, anyway? Are you in security or some crap?"

    Me: "My job is none of your business, officer."

    Cop #2: "We're just curious, is all."

    Me: "That's fine. I just don't talk about my work with people I don't know."

    Cop #2: "But, we're cops. You have no reason not to trust us."

    Me: "Did you really just use the 'Trust us we're the police' line on me? After your partner tried to lie to me and tell me I had to conceal?"

    Cop #1: "Smart guy, huh? Yeah, you look REAL smart, with your pot belly, and baby stroller, eating ice cream with a big old gun strapped to your hip. You wanna carry a gun? Try losing weight and becoming a cop, smart guy."

    Me: "Oh, so your department put a freeze on hiring Neandertals?"

    Cop #2: "There's no reason for the attitude, mister."

    Me: "Tell your pet caveman that."

    Cop #1: "You're real fuckin' funny, you know that? You keep on being funny, you ******* idiot. Next time you need to call 911, make sure you tell the operator something real funny. Maybe your jokes will help save your life, you fuckin' jerkoff. Have a nice fuckin' day."

    I sat there as they stomped off. My ice cream was starting to melt, but I was glad my son slept through it. This kid could sleep on top of a jackhammer, but if I crack my knuckles, he wakes up angry. I ate the melted parts as fast as I could. A lady there with 4 kids walked up to me, and asked me if it was legal to carry a gun. It turnds out, she just moved here from NJ a few weeks ago. She thought about buying a gun, but didn't want to go through the hassle she went through in NJ trying to get a license. I told hr the short version of PA law: anyone not criminally or mentally prohibited from owning a gun can buy one, no waiting period, and can get a license to carry one, concealed, and that it was legal to carry openly. She thanked me, and walked back to her kids.

    So, not a totally negative 10 minutes of my life. I love ice cream.

  2. #2
    Founder's Club Member thebigsd's Avatar
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    Hope you write a nice long complaint letter. Were you recording? It's good you were able to educate another potential carrier, I'm sure the police would love that!
    "When seconds count between living or dying, the police are only minutes away."

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    Regular Member HandyHamlet's Avatar
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    After reading your post, Sir, I believe I must dab away a tear. For it is so good it inspires tears of joy.









    {although Neanderthals may take exception!}
    Last edited by HandyHamlet; 07-06-2011 at 12:49 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jahwarrior72 View Post
    Me, to my 2 month old son: "Don't say a word without a lawyer, son."
    LOL!!

    Gotta love the 'You can trust us, we're cops' routine. Apparently they haven't been keeping up with just how many of their fellow officers all over the country have been getting arrested lately....

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    I know u are from my area, what police dept was it ?

    Rob

    Quote Originally Posted by jahwarrior72 View Post
    I took a walk to Carvel yesterday with my son. When I say walk, I mean I walked, while he slept in his stroller. Four blocks and a lot of sweat later, I walked up to the window, ordered an orange vanilla swirl, and walked over to the bench off to the side. There were two local PD patrolmen there. One of them approached me, holding his hand up. His partner walked off nonchalantly to my right side, keeping my gun in view.

    Cop #1: "Hey, buddy, what's up with that?"

    Me: "What's up with what?"

    Cop #1: "What's up with that gun? You need to conceal that."

    Me: "No, I don't. You know I don't. You know it's legal in Pennsylvania, everyone in your department received the updated memo on the legality of open carry."

    Cop #1: "What do you know about it our training?"

    Me: "I know about it. That should be enough. Did you get it?"

    Cop #1: "Sure, we got it, but I still think it's stupid to be doing that."

    Cop #2: "Wow, he's a cutie. What's his name?"

    Me, to my 2 month old son: "Don't say a word without a lawyer, son." I thought that might get a laugh out of them, but it didn't. Oh well.

    Cop #1: "What do you do for a living, anyway? Are you in security or some crap?"

    Me: "My job is none of your business, officer."

    Cop #2: "We're just curious, is all."

    Me: "That's fine. I just don't talk about my work with people I don't know."

    Cop #2: "But, we're cops. You have no reason not to trust us."

    Me: "Did you really just use the 'Trust us we're the police' line on me? After your partner tried to lie to me and tell me I had to conceal?"

    Cop #1: "Smart guy, huh? Yeah, you look REAL smart, with your pot belly, and baby stroller, eating ice cream with a big old gun strapped to your hip. You wanna carry a gun? Try losing weight and becoming a cop, smart guy."

    Me: "Oh, so your department put a freeze on hiring Neandertals?"

    Cop #2: "There's no reason for the attitude, mister."

    Me: "Tell your pet caveman that."

    Cop #1: "You're real fuckin' funny, you know that? You keep on being funny, you ******* idiot. Next time you need to call 911, make sure you tell the operator something real funny. Maybe your jokes will help save your life, you fuckin' jerkoff. Have a nice fuckin' day."

    I sat there as they stomped off. My ice cream was starting to melt, but I was glad my son slept through it. This kid could sleep on top of a jackhammer, but if I crack my knuckles, he wakes up angry. I ate the melted parts as fast as I could. A lady there with 4 kids walked up to me, and asked me if it was legal to carry a gun. It turnds out, she just moved here from NJ a few weeks ago. She thought about buying a gun, but didn't want to go through the hassle she went through in NJ trying to get a license. I told hr the short version of PA law: anyone not criminally or mentally prohibited from owning a gun can buy one, no waiting period, and can get a license to carry one, concealed, and that it was legal to carry openly. She thanked me, and walked back to her kids.

    So, not a totally negative 10 minutes of my life. I love ice cream.

  6. #6
    Regular Member jahwarrior72's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thebigsd View Post
    Hope you write a nice long complaint letter. Were you recording? It's good you were able to educate another potential carrier, I'm sure the police would love that!
    i live in Dickson City. yeah, THAT Dickson City. i don't plan on writing anything, i plan on going in personally sometime today to schedule an appointment with the chief of police here. i guess they forgot the ongoing litigation for the Old Country Buffet nonsense; i guess they need a little reminder.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jahwarrior72 View Post
    i live in Dickson City. yeah, THAT Dickson City. i don't plan on writing anything, i plan on going in personally sometime today to schedule an appointment with the chief of police here. i guess they forgot the ongoing litigation for the Old Country Buffet nonsense; i guess they need a little reminder.
    Of course you are going to let us know how it goes . . . . Right ?

    Rob

  8. #8
    Regular Member jahwarrior72's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RJB1075 View Post
    Of course you are going to let us know how it goes . . . . Right ?

    Rob
    of course! i also don't expect a whole lot to happen. over the past couple of years, i've had some prety intense encounters with Scranton PD, filed complaints, talked to police commanders, and saw little improvement.

  9. #9
    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Always with the negative comments about the Neanderthals, huh? How about someone go pick on the Cro-Magnons once in a while?

    Or is it because they (I'm not sure now if I'm talking about the Cro-Magnons or the cops) got a good PR firm. http://archaeology.about.com/od/earl...cro_magnon.htm

    I sure hope you were able to record that exchange of points of view. Burn a copy to a CD/DVD and bring it as a gift when you see the Chief. Maybe have a few more copies and leave them at the desk for others to listen to? Have the rest of the force play "Who's that idiot?"

    BTW, isn't there some city/county/state rule about not swearing in front of children?

    stay safe.

  10. #10
    Regular Member Fallschirmjäger's Avatar
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    Even Chuck would approve.
    I had a somewhat similar 'encounter' in the Georgia forum and I have to ask....

    Was it such an amazingly good feeling to see their powerlessness that it almost made you giddy?

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  12. #12
    Regular Member jahwarrior72's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fallschirmjäger View Post

    Even Chuck would approve.
    I had a somewhat similar 'encounter' in the Georgia forum and I have to ask....

    Was it such an amazingly good feeling to see their powerlessness that it almost made you giddy?
    to be honest, no. it would have felt good if they'd approahced me, and asked what i was carrying, and struck up a conversation that wasn't geared towards busting my balls over open carry.

  13. #13
    Regular Member Gunslinger's Avatar
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    I would file a formal complaint about their use of profanity. I'm not an expert on PA law, but in some states that constitutes disorderly conduct. At the very least it is unprofessional to the max. They had no reason to talk to you that way. Too bad you don't have it recorded.

    "Trust us, we're the Gestapo..."
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    Regular Member wylde007's Avatar
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    Cool Not From PA

    But a truly inspiring story... and just further iteration of how so many of the men in blue look down on us common folk with abject contempt and disdain.

    Thanks.
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    Regular Member Deanimator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gunslinger View Post
    I would file a formal complaint about their use of profanity. I'm not an expert on PA law, but in some states that constitutes disorderly conduct. At the very least it is unprofessional to the max. They had no reason to talk to you that way. Too bad you don't have it recorded.

    "Trust us, we're the Gestapo..."
    Don't bet that he DIDN'T have it recorded...
    Last edited by Deanimator; 07-08-2011 at 01:45 PM.

  16. #16
    Regular Member jahwarrior72's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deanimator View Post
    Don't bet that the DIDN'T have it recorded...
    i learned my lesson after the last few encounters i had. my cell phone has a voice recording function, so now when i leave the house, i have it on standby. all it takes to start recording is a quick tap.

  17. #17
    Regular Member Deanimator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jahwarrior72 View Post
    i learned my lesson after the last few encounters i had. my cell phone has a voice recording function, so now when i leave the house, i have it on standby. all it takes to start recording is a quick tap.
    I bought my first smart phone a couple of months ago. The FIRST app I installed was Cop Recorder II.

    When cops misbehave, they LIE. You'd BETTER be able to PROVE it when they do.

    After you're little talk (and after FOIA requesting ANY material arising from the incident) you ought to put up a link to the recording.
    Last edited by Deanimator; 07-08-2011 at 01:52 PM.

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    Regular Member Lokster's Avatar
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    jahwarrior,

    Thanks for the laugh! On the other hand, the lack of professionalism displayed too often by LE from all over the country is appalling and unacceptable in my opinion. These bad apples are beginning to give the appearance that the whole bunch is spoiled.

    Quote Originally Posted by jahwarrior72 View Post

    Cop #1: "Smart guy, huh? Yeah, you look REAL smart, with your pot belly, and baby stroller, eating ice cream with a big old gun strapped to your hip. You wanna carry a gun? Try losing weight and becoming a cop, smart guy."


    I don't know about where you're at, but out here it's quite obvious that you don't have to make much of an effort in losing weight to become a cop.

    I would love to see a study, privately funded of course, comparing the ratio of obese criminals to LE.

  19. #19
    Regular Member jahwarrior72's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lokster View Post
    jahwarrior,

    Thanks for the laugh! On the other hand, the lack of professionalism displayed too often by LE from all over the country is appalling and unacceptable in my opinion. These bad apples are beginning to give the appearance that the whole bunch is spoiled.



    I don't know about where you're at, but out here it's quite obvious that you don't have to make much of an effort in losing weight to become a cop.

    I would love to see a study, privately funded of course, comparing the ratio of obese criminals to LE.

    Most cops in this area are in good shape; Scranton's PD has a strict policy about it, so i've never seen a fat Scranton cop. i've never seen a fat Dickson City cop either; most of the outlying suburbs around Scranton copy their policies. i myself have no such policy.

  20. #20
    Regular Member usamarshal's Avatar
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    Thats classic...sounds like you hurt the officers feelings...good stuff...oh yea, in Ohio...we have the fattest officers/deputies in the country...I've seen officers where they have to put up the steering wheel in order to get in and out of the vehicle...haha

  21. #21
    Regular Member MilProGuy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jahwarrior72 View Post

    Cop #1: "What do you know about it our training?"

    Me: "I know about it. That should be enough. Did you get it?"

    Cop #1: "Sure, we got it, but I still think it's stupid to be doing that."

    Cop #2: "Wow, he's a cutie. What's his name?"

    Me, to my 2 month old son: "Don't say a word without a lawyer, son." I thought that might get a laugh out of them, but it didn't. Oh well.

    Cop #1: "What do you do for a living, anyway? Are you in security or some crap?"

    Me: "My job is none of your business, officer."

    Cop #2: "We're just curious, is all."

    Me: "That's fine. I just don't talk about my work with people I don't know."

    Cop #2: "But, we're cops. You have no reason not to trust us."

    Me: "Did you really just use the 'Trust us we're the police' line on me? After your partner tried to lie to me and tell me I had to conceal?"

    Cop #1: "Smart guy, huh? Yeah, you look REAL smart, with your pot belly, and baby stroller, eating ice cream with a big old gun strapped to your hip. You wanna carry a gun? Try losing weight and becoming a cop, smart guy."

    Me: "Oh, so your department put a freeze on hiring Neandertals?"

    Cop #2: "There's no reason for the attitude, mister."

    Me: "Tell your pet caveman that."

    Cop #1: "You're real fuckin' funny, you know that? You keep on being funny, you ******* idiot. Next time you need to call 911, make sure you tell the operator something real funny. Maybe your jokes will help save your life, you fuckin' jerkoff. Have a nice fuckin' day."

    I sat there as they stomped off. My ice cream was starting to melt...
    Well, that's certainly one way to handle a situation like that.

    No disrespect to you is meant by what I am about to share, but I would have attempted to handle this situation in a manner as to not insult and infuriate those who are sworn to protect and serve me.

    It has worked for me for the 65 years of my life. I've never been disrespected by any LEO, never been arrested, and have, therefore, never seen the inside of a jail cell.

    I intend to keep it that way.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by MilProGuy View Post
    Well, that's certainly one way to handle a situation like that.

    No disrespect to you is meant by what I am about to share, but I would have attempted to handle this situation in a manner as to not insult and infuriate those who are sworn to protect and serve me.

    It has worked for me for the 65 years of my life. I've never been disrespected by any LEO, never been arrested, and have, therefore, never seen the inside of a jail cell.

    I intend to keep it that way.

    I would consider it an insult to be directly lied to. The first officer knew(as he admitted) that it was legal to OC and blatantly lied to the OP because HE thought it was stupid. To put it another way, the officer knew the law, didn't agree with it and lied to try and have things his way. Is that your definition of "serve"? It is not mine.

    I also would like to point out that the Supreme Court of this land has ruled that no Law Enforcement Officer is under any requirement to "protect" you. The simple fact is they know it too. I was amazed when I first found this out(after years of thinking the were in fact there to "protect" the citizenry) and started asking the various LEO I knew it they were aware of this. They all informed me that they were. They don't mind letting people think they will charge in to protect you, but look at places like Columbine, where they waited over 45 min. to enter.

    Just out of curiosity, Sir. What part of "protect" or "serve" includes hurling insults and vulgarity at the citizenry?

  23. #23
    Campaign Veteran RabbiVJ's Avatar
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    that was probably one of the best encounters ive read on here...very good job sir!
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  24. #24
    Regular Member Deanimator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MilProGuy View Post
    No disrespect to you is meant by what I am about to share, but I would have attempted to handle this situation in a manner as to not insult and infuriate those who are sworn to protect and serve me.
    To expand upon what someone else told you:

    1. Police have no legal duty to protect individuals.
    2. Police have no legal liability when they fail to protect individuals.
    3. Police have virtually no physical ability to protect individuals.

    When your life is in danger right now, either protect yourself or just don't get protected at all.

    Anybody who tells you different is a liar.

    Of course one of the cops was a liar above and beyond any of that. He deserves no respect, only contempt.

  25. #25
    Regular Member MKEgal's Avatar
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    I am so looking forward to hearing that recording...
    Great way to keep cool & make them lose theirs. Very unprofessional of them.
    And nice choice of ice cream.

    Quote Originally Posted by MilProGuy
    I would have attempted to handle this situation in a manner as to not insult and infuriate those who are sworn to protect and serve me.
    Leaving aside the Hollywood "protect & serve" BS, which has been addressed by people far better than I...

    If those officers knew what they were doing (knew how to do their job, remembered the law - that's only been around, what, 15 years now? - remembered the training memo, etc.) they wouldn't even have approached the OP other than for some friendly conversation & digs about whose pistol was better.

    If an officer is insulted or infuriated by a citizen standing up for his rights, or reminding the officer of training he's obviously forgotten, it's the officer's problem.

    For such a mild rebuke, he certainly had quite a temper. Wonder what he'd do if he was really insulted? Shoot someone?
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