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Thread: Semi-Negative LEO Encounter

  1. #26
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    Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaaa!!! That was GREAT!! Put their lying asses in their place!

    I wouldn't bother the Chief. I'd take the encounter, any recordings, etc., and give it to the lead attorneys in the Dickson case. I'm no expert, but I think you just established a pattern of abuse.

    And, don't forget to point out that cop2 did nothing to stop or correct cop1's lies or unprofessional, illegal behavior. Especially if in telling you to conceal the gun, he used an authoritative or official tone of voice.

    Also, this could have been attempted entrapment. He had no idea whether you had an LTCF on you. And, you can bet from his real attitude that surfaced, had you actually concealed at his orders, his next line would have been, "Don't move! Lemme see your LTCF." Of course, if you didn't have one on you, then you're arrested, and his story changes to, "We saw a bulge, so we decided to investigate with a consensual contact." I would complain to high heaven about attempted official oppression.

    At best he was telling you to do something potentially illegal without first finding out whether you had an LTCF. I'd pointedly ask, "Do your cops prevent or encourage crime?"

    Also, this could have been a tactic to get your identity. If you concealed, and had an LTCF, he would then have your identity to check and add to a field contact database.
    Last edited by Citizen; 07-09-2011 at 01:45 AM.

  2. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by MilProGuy View Post

    No disrespect to you is meant by what I am about to share, but I would have attempted to handle this situation in a manner as to not insult and infuriate those who are sworn to protect and serve me.
    If you could please share with the class HOW exactly the two police officers in question were serving and protecting during this encounter?
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  3. #28
    Regular Member jahwarrior72's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MilProGuy View Post
    Well, that's certainly one way to handle a situation like that.

    No disrespect to you is meant by what I am about to share, but I would have attempted to handle this situation in a manner as to not insult and infuriate those who are sworn to protect and serve me.

    It has worked for me for the 65 years of my life. I've never been disrespected by any LEO, never been arrested, and have, therefore, never seen the inside of a jail cell.

    I intend to keep it that way.
    no disrespect was taken.

    there is one point i'd like to make, however. you stated that in your 65 years on this Earth, you've never felt disrespected by LEO. that is, quite simply, amazing. you also stated that you've never been arrested, or seen the inside of a jail cell. i can kind of understand why you'd feel the way you do, and that's great. however, not everyone shares your experiences, especially not me. i have been disrespected, abused, and otherwise humiliated by the police; i suppose one could say that's par for the course for many miorities in this country, unfortunately. i also have been arrested, and have seen the inside of a jail cell.

    i am tired of it. i grew up in fear of the badge; growing up in NYC, i've seen firsthand the abuses of power that LEO regular commit, without fear of punishment. the country never paid attention until the Rodney King verdict in Los Angeles, when the officers in question were acquitted of any wrongdoing. at that point, people had finally had enough, and rioted, nearly destroying the city. so, the media finally acknowledged that the police were capable of corruption, but it still happens on a regular basis. everyday, i read or hear about some LEO who commits acts of intimidation, harrassment, assault, property theft/damage, perjury, extortion, drug dealing, sexual misconduct, or murder. as it happens, much of it happens right here in PA, specifically in Philadelphia.

    like those people in L.A., i'm tired of it. i'm not going to live in fear of someone simply because they think their badge grants them powers above that of an ordinary citizen. they need reminding that they serve us, that they should live in fear of us, not the other way around. it's not my duty to respect them, it's their job to respect me, and not lie to me, or insult me, even if i committed a crime.

    sometimes, the only option a person has are words. i happen to be adept at hurling hurtful ones, and i'm not afraid to use them. if a LEO can be respectful and threat me the way i ought to be treated, then i will give them the respect they deserve. likewise, if some jerkoff with a badge wants to lie to me, insult me, and try to embarass me, in front of my own son, no less, they can expect to be treated like the piece of **** that they are.

    they need remember who they work for. i intend to remind them.
    Last edited by jahwarrior72; 07-09-2011 at 10:41 AM.

  4. #29
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    Jah, don't let this MilProGuy get under your skin. I've seen several of his posts and all are antagonistic. I don't like to cast aspersions, but this guy is starting to really act like something that hangs out under bridges and chases billy goats. I am starting to wonder if Eric is back. I think you handled yourself well. Best to you and your son. Teach him well.

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  5. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by jahwarrior72 View Post
    SNIP sometimes, the only option a person has are words. i happen to be adept at hurling hurtful ones, and i'm not afraid to use them. if a LEO can be respectful and threat me the way i ought to be treated, then i will give them the respect they deserve. likewise, if some jerkoff with a badge wants to lie to me, insult me, and try to embarass me, in front of my own son, no less, they can expect to be treated like the piece of **** that they are.

    they need remember who they work for. i intend to remind them.
    I'm pleased with the OCer's tactics and the way it turned out.

    We should point out that this only works with a certain category of cops. The whole thing could have raced south right into the gutter, too, if it had been some really bad cops. Meaning, its dangerous to antagonize cops.

    The legal system is heavily tilted in their favor. Arrest, beating, and tazering could have been the outcome. Also, I think we have two reports of nerve damage from maliciously tightened hand-cuffs.

  6. #31
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    i don't necessarily see these as bad apples, this could have been the characteristics of the whole bushel . standard practice is to resort to trying to anger the subject to incite him/her to do something wrong

    good job JAHWARRIOR72 i have found when you hit them with knowledge the general sheeple would not know it throws them off balance.

    BTW, what was the "old country buffet" incident?
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  7. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by papa bear View Post
    i don't necessarily see these as bad apples, this could have been the characteristics of the whole bushel . standard practice is to resort to trying to anger the subject to incite him/her to do something wrong.
    Yes, I had forgotten about that. This tactic is discussed a little more in the book Arrest Proof Yourself, by former cop Dale Carson.

  8. #33
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    What empresses me the most after the controlled conduct of the OP and the thoroughness of his responses w/recording, is the maturing of posters on OCDO. It would have in the not so distant past, have provided the impetus for hard line cop bashing - this has not been the case here or anytime recently.

    There are bad apples to be found in many barrels and the need to be treated/culled individually. Even when responding to pro LEO posters, the mature and effective response has been given.

    You all collectively and individually provide excellent models for those yet to join us in this quest for freedom and the RKBA as is our birthright.

    After all of these years, I am still learning and I thank each and everyone of you for being such adept instructors and mentors.

    BTW - Can't wait to hear the audio myself, whenever the time is right.
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  9. #34
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by papa bear View Post

    BTW, what was the "old country buffet" incident?
    http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/sh...country+buffet
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  10. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deanimator View Post
    Don't bet that he DIDN'T have it recorded...
    I sure hope he does. Playing that back for whoever the civilian authority over the cops is would be priceless. And I'd love to hear it.
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  11. #36
    Founder's Club Member ixtow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MilProGuy View Post
    No disrespect to you is meant by what I am about to share, but I would have attempted to handle this situation in a manner as to not insult and infuriate those who are sworn to protect and serve me.
    I believe that the concept of casting pearls before swine also applies to affording pleasantness to those who deserve a good kick in the teeth.

    The LEO was trying to pick a fight with the citizen who dared to show the world that carrying a gun doesn't make one special.

    It seems like a classic case of Good Cop, Bad Cop. How much of it was an act? #2 seemed to act like he didn't know what was going on... Bad acting job...
    "The fourth man's dark, accusing song had scratched our comfort hard and long..."
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  12. #37
    Regular Member Motofixxer's Avatar
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    I gotta say this was definitely a semi-negative encounter. I would really like to hear what the department has to say regarding this encounter.
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  13. #38
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    Most LEO's absolutely HATE being shown when they are wrong.

    They go about their day thinking they are right about everything and 99.99999% of the population will do anything a LEO tells them.

    So when one of us stands our ground, the LEO reverts to childish name calling and if he had the opportunity will sometimes go to violence or commit a wrongful arrest.
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  14. #39
    Regular Member NewZealandAmerican's Avatar
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    I hate bad cops.
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    Last edited by NewZealandAmerican; 07-13-2011 at 07:13 AM.
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  15. #40
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    thanx.

    Quote Originally Posted by jahwarrior72 View Post
    no disrespect was taken.

    there is one point i'd like to make, however. you stated that in your 65 years on this Earth, you've never felt disrespected by LEO. that is, quite simply, amazing. you also stated that you've never been arrested, or seen the inside of a jail cell. i can kind of understand why you'd feel the way you do, and that's great. however, not everyone shares your experiences, especially not me. i have been disrespected, abused, and otherwise humiliated by the police; i suppose one could say that's par for the course for many miorities in this country, unfortunately. i also have been arrested, and have seen the inside of a jail cell.

    i am tired of it. i grew up in fear of the badge; growing up in NYC, i've seen firsthand the abuses of power that LEO regular commit, without fear of punishment. the country never paid attention until the Rodney King verdict in Los Angeles, when the officers in question were acquitted of any wrongdoing. at that point, people had finally had enough, and rioted, nearly destroying the city. so, the media finally acknowledged that the police were capable of corruption, but it still happens on a regular basis. everyday, i read or hear about some LEO who commits acts of intimidation, harrassment, assault, property theft/damage, perjury, extortion, drug dealing, sexual misconduct, or murder. as it happens, much of it happens right here in PA, specifically in Philadelphia.

    like those people in L.A., i'm tired of it. i'm not going to live in fear of someone simply because they think their badge grants them powers above that of an ordinary citizen. they need reminding that they serve us, that they should live in fear of us, not the other way around. it's not my duty to respect them, it's their job to respect me, and not lie to me, or insult me, even if i committed a crime.

    sometimes, the only option a person has are words. i happen to be adept at hurling hurtful ones, and i'm not afraid to use them. if a LEO can be respectful and threat me the way i ought to be treated, then i will give them the respect they deserve. likewise, if some jerkoff with a badge wants to lie to me, insult me, and try to embarass me, in front of my own son, no less, they can expect to be treated like the piece of **** that they are.

    they need remember who they work for. i intend to remind them.
    thanx for sharing that thought as it is without question the right thing to do and should be done that way every time a neg encounter shows its ugly head. and likewise ,anything positive should be commended,and encouraged.never cave in to fear or intimadation. thanx again.
    JP

  16. #41
    Regular Member jahwarrior72's Avatar
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    UPDATE:

    i spoke briefly with the chief today. i kept it short and sweet. he didn't seem to interested, to be honest, until i told him i recorded the incident, on audio. then he got very interested. he first asked me if i had the recording with me, which i did. he then asked if i informed the officers that they were being recorded.

    oops.

    i said i didn't remember if i did, but i'm sure the recording would show whether i did or not. he got a little upset, and told me that i committed a federal offense by not informing them i recorded audio, and that i could possibly be charged with a crime. he also refused to hear the recording, saying that even if he did hear it, nothing on the reording could be used, since it was an illegal recording. he said the next time, i should inform them they were being recorded. also, that i should conceal my gun, and/or comply with officer demands.



    i contacted a lawyer yesterday, who actually confirmed his story. there's a weird difference betwen recording audio, and recording video with audio. a videorecording would have been fine, and i wouldn't need consent, but i need verbal consent to record just audio. i don't get it, but apparently, it's a law. i still have the audio saved, just in case. i just need to figure out how to transfer it to my laptop.

  17. #42
    Regular Member Mr H's Avatar
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    IANAL, but I'm curious...

    In a public setting, with more than 2 people above the age of majority present, I'd be interested in knowing where the "reasonable expectation of privacy" might come into play here?

    I am willing to be corrected here, but I thought Fed law only covered recording conversations over phone, radio, etc., but face-to-face fell more under the state to regulate?

    EDIT: Sudden revelation of logic...

    If you could be "charged with a crime", how could the recording not be admissable, as it would show evidence of your alleged crime?

    The math here doesn't add up. Methinks you've been dealt a smokescreen.
    Last edited by Mr H; 07-14-2011 at 08:44 PM.

  18. #43
    Regular Member jahwarrior72's Avatar
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    i don't know what the difference is. as i understand it, a recorded conversation needs two party consent, whereas a video doesn't.

  19. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by jahwarrior72 View Post
    i don't know what the difference is. as i understand it, a recorded conversation needs two party consent, whereas a video doesn't.
    There are a few points here.

    1. I don't know about your reported federal law violation--you said the chief's story checked out with the lawyer. This is usually a state law matter.

    2. Many states include an expectation of privacy angle. Sometimes its in a court opinion rather than the statute. And, sometimes that includes public officials acting in their public capactity since they should have no expectation of privacy when doing their public duty.

    3. So,

    a. Anybody got a copy of the current state wire-tap statute or statute on intercepting voice conversations?

    b. Anybody got any info on state court opinions regarding privacy of public officials doing their public duties?


    Maybe some google-fu is needed here.
    Last edited by Citizen; 07-14-2011 at 08:53 PM.

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  22. #47
    Regular Member jahwarrior72's Avatar
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    Kadar and Blk97F150, i was under the impression that it was legal to audiorecord LEO, as well. i'm still confused why a lawyer would tell me it wasn't.

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    It is legal.

    Because like police, lawyers don't know all the law. If they did they would not have to research before they present a case. Things change almost daily in the law field.

  24. #49
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    I almost blew a gasket when i read the chief's statement about it being against federal law to record a police officer in public!!

    as i tried to calm down, i tried to think that this was maybe a PA thing. but then i remembered the the Florino incident and they did charge him with wire tapping. how did that work out ?

    But, mainly it seemed that my original estimate was correct that these[the LEO in the OP] were not bad apples they are just the variety that falls from the tree of the dept.. JAHWARRIOR, do you think you would have walked away from the meeting with the chief if you had broken a law?

    big points to KADAR, loved the memo. JAH have you sent a copy to the police dept. and the city attorney? if so, i would love to know what if any effect it had

    and thank you for standing up. if it was not for people like you the rest of us would be in poor shape
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    i you call a CHP a CCW then you are really stupid. period.

  25. #50
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    Always love your posts, jahwarrior....

    ...and hope I can handle myself as well as you when a situation arises.

    You must be a really "sweet" fella. You keep attracting hornets! Lay off the ice cream!

    Keep up the good fight, compadre.

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