AppleBees Gun Policy - No OC

amlevin · Jul 7, 2011

Lovenox said:
And on and on and on.............................................fellas, We claim to be a freedom loving cohort, correct? Then don't display selective indignation when a PRIVATE ESTABLISHMENT wants to practice the freedom of choice. Government bodies,parks, etc are a different story altogether and I am 100% in the tank with you on that one for in that one there is no room for choice.

Then let them be consistent. The person suggested that the openly carried firearm made others feel uncomfortable. Then let them be more proactive in addressing unruly or noisy children, those with incredibly bad Body Odor, or those elderly ladies that wear perfume that curls your nose hairs and makes your meal taste like the Cosmetic's Bar in a Department Store. Let's not forget those that can make a whole paragraph out of the "F-Word" when talking to their friends at the bar and doing so at max volume. Rather than only accommodating those who are made uncomfortable by the sight of a firearm, they need address these other issues equally.

Lovenox · Jul 7, 2011

amlevin said:
Then let them be consistent. The person suggested that the openly carried firearm made others feel uncomfortable. Then let them be more proactive in addressing unruly or noisy children, those with incredibly bad Body Odor, or those elderly ladies that wear perfume that curls your nose hairs and makes your meal taste like the Cosmetic's Bar in a Department Store. Let's not forget those that can make a whole paragraph out of the "F-Word" when talking to their friends at the bar and doing so at max volume. Rather than only accommodating those who are made uncomfortable by the sight of a firearm, they need address these other issues equally.

You won't get a disagreement with me there. But there are several variables to consider: 1) Did someone actually tell the manager that they feel "uncomftorable" or was that his assumption. 2) Has anybody lodged a complaint on the several offenses you stated and what was done?
But the BLUF remains is that they are a private business and I am not going to force them to take my money and as an organization niether should we.

Bill Starks · Jul 7, 2011

Something I've been mulling over...

If the 2A has been incorporated in the 14th Amendment and the intent of the 14th was the protection of ALL rights, then why can I be kicked out of a place because of my firearm? If race is protected class, why not the 2A?

deanf · Jul 7, 2011

If race is protected class, why not the 2A?

I've always though it's because of the difference between civil and constitutional rights. Civil rights are granted by the state to people: black people can't be kicked out of private property because they are black because of a law passed saying such. It's only black's right not to be kicked out because the government said so, and the government could change that law at any time, modifying or removing that civil right.

Constitutional rights (2A) only restrict the actions of government against people. Have nothing to do with the interactions of private parties.

Constitutional rights are not civil rights - civil rights are not constitutional rights.

Lovenox · Jul 7, 2011

M1Gunr said:
Something I've been mulling over...

If the 2A has been incorporated in the 14th Amendment and the intent of the 14th was the protection of ALL rights, then why can I be kicked out of a place because of my firearm? If race is protected class, why not the 2A?

Good question. I would say that all "rights" have "restrictions". The closest example I can provide is that a movie theater can throw you out for speaking through a movie if your fellow patrons air thier grieviances to the management. I dont know how that could EXACTLY paralelle (sp) to the Applebees but I guess if enough patrons voiced thier uncomfortable disposition to your firearm then perhaps management is compelled to act. Anybody?

deanf · Jul 7, 2011

Anybody?

The movie theater analogy is invalid. No rights are involved. There is no free speech right on private property, as there is no 2A right on private property. You remain on private property by license. License that can have almost unlimited restriction or be revoked at almost any time. Being kicked out because patrons are uncomfortable or otherwise annoyed is not a restriction on a right. It is a revocation of license.

hermannr · Jul 7, 2011

The right of the state to regulate what may/or may not be done on that property open to the public, (even property not open to the public) can and is regularly, regulated. (Think zoning, building codes etc.)

Private property "rights" are open to restriction. Consider the "school" zone restriction that many states have...in WA this includes restrictions to carry at private schools, on private property, even if the private "school" has no published opinion.

If they can restrict a visitors right to carry, conversely they COULD restrict these schools private "right" to exclude. What do you think a private school that restricted attendence to only whites, or only males or only females? (these types of restrictions have been to court already, These restrictions have already been ruled invalid. The same could happen with the second ammendment.

Like it or not, private property "rights" can be legislated away...especially when you have some sort of "public" interest involved.

Metalhead47 · Jul 7, 2011

hermannr said:
If they can restrict a visitors right to carry, conversely they COULD restrict these schools private "right" to exclude. What do you think a private school that restricted attendence to only whites, or only males or only females? (these types of restrictions have been to court already, These restrictions have already been ruled invalid. The same could happen with the second ammendment.

Hate to pick nits here, but....

There are plenty of boys- or girls-only private schools out there...

deanf: While I don't quite agree, that's got to be the best explanation of constitutional rights vs private property tights I've heard so far.

What I disagree with, is that I see the RKBA as an extension of the natural right to self-defense, which is its self an extension of the natural right to life, and natural rights generally trump all others.

hermannr · Jul 8, 2011

Metalhead47 said:
Hate to pick nits here, but....

There are plenty of boys- or girls-only private schools out there...

deanf: While I don't quite agree, that's got to be the best explanation of constitutional rights vs private property tights I've heard so far.

What I disagree with, is that I see the RKBA as an extension of the natural right to self-defense, which is its self an extension of the natural right to life, and natural rights generally trump all others.

The only reason their are all black, all white, all boy, or all girls schools is because they have not been challenged in court...read about the Citadel here: http://www.nytimes.com/1996/06/29/us/citadel-bowing-to-court-says-it-will-admit-women.html

Metalhead47 · Jul 8, 2011

hermannr said:
The only reason their are all black, all white, all boy, or all girls schools is because they have not been challenged in court...read about the Citadel here: http://www.nytimes.com/1996/06/29/us/citadel-bowing-to-court-says-it-will-admit-women.html

The Citadel & that Virginia school are a little different... says right in the article they accept public money, and of course are associated with the military, a publicly funded institution. ARE there any schools that are (as a matter of policy and not demographics) all black or all white anymore?

hermannr · Jul 8, 2011

Yes, I know of a couple that are all black, not that they have never had white kids apply, it is there are very few that apply...Small Lutheran school (Concordia) in Selma Alabama. Actually not a bad school at all. There are a lot of international students (mostly from Africa) but with 10 colleges in the Concordia system, most of the white students attend one of the other schools.

Concordia Selma is one of 105 "traditionally Black" universities, thought most of these 105 "Traditionally Black" schools have significant portions of their student bodies that are not black anymore. (see the wiki) Concordia Selma I personally am aquainted with, as I did graduate from Concordia, Edmonton

There are approximately 60 "all womans" colleges according to the wiki.

fire suppressor · Jul 10, 2011

gogodawgs said:
Or better yet....

We schedule a lunch there and get 20 or so of us....
After we order and meals are delivered and a few bite's of food are taken....
20 CC guys all take off there jackets, get up and use the restroom, etc....
Then nothing happens, we pay, we tip and we go home....
Then also leave news articles of Starbuck's choice to allow OC and their record profits on the tables as we leave...

gogodawgs would that be considered a flash mob for open carry activists?

Wasn't there another thread recently started by Trigger Dr that explained there was no corporate policy on it or am I mistaken?

Trigger Dr · Jul 10, 2011

Was not me Eddy

fjpro2a · Jul 10, 2011

Correct, my good man

gogodawgs said:
Because we are better than they are....write a letter after and demand our money back. It is more impressionable when they have to respond after the fact.

Excellent response. We really are better. Writing a letter after the fact is a tremendous way to get our point across.

fire suppressor · Jul 11, 2011

Trigger Dr said:
Was not me Eddy

Sorry about that I its easy to get some of theses threads mixed up. I'll have to see if i can go back through and find it now

1245A Defender · Jul 11, 2011

well,,,

this thing about applebees, is that their is a... corporate applebees, and their is a... franchise applebees!

i think someone found that corporate follows state law.
and the franchise owners want to ban guns, so
you cant tell going into an applebees which is which.
some of the restaurants will like you, some will think your doing wrong.
some restaurants wont notice the gun, wont know what their policy is, and just work hard for the best tip!

onestar 50 · Jul 11, 2011

The appleBee's in Monroe, Mich. is Corp. Owned.

Bill Starks · Jul 11, 2011

(Follow Up 7/11/11 1:15pm)

Just got off the phone with Applebees Corporate office. The AppleBees in this area of Washington are owned by "Apple American Franchise" and they, not Corporate, set the rules on carrying a firearm.

Corporate Policy is that there is NO policy on firearms, follow state law. The franchise however makes their own rules.

thebigsd · Jul 11, 2011

Metalhead47 said:
The Citadel & that Virginia school are a little different... says right in the article they accept public money, and of course are associated with the military, a publicly funded institution. ARE there any schools that are (as a matter of policy and not demographics) all black or all white anymore?

Virginia school=Virginia Military Institute (VMI)

carracer · Jul 12, 2011

Any further communication from Apple American? I just googled and found that the Boise area ones are Apple American owned as well.

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