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Thread: The very reason I don't carry in a serpa

  1. #1
    Regular Member sempercarry's Avatar
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    Exclamation The very reason I don't carry in a serpa (Very important video to watch)

    The second OC rig I ever bought was a BH Serpa for my Glock 23. As I do with all new equipment, I tested it out with an unloaded weapon in order to become proficient with its function. I noticed after several draws that there was a flaw in the design. When attempting to draw quickly, after pushing the release button, my finger was already partially pulling the trigger as the gun came out of the holster. I chose not to use the holster for fear of an ND in a high stress situation. After explaining this concern to a rep at Bladetechs HQ in Puyallup, he told me that this was a problem with that holster and that it had led to several hundred NDs and injuries which is why they came up with their Thumbdrive holster. Well....here is one (ND and injury) caught on tape. Just somthing to consider if you carry with a Serpa.

    http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=4e2_1309977569
    Last edited by sempercarry; 07-07-2011 at 04:30 AM.

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    Regular Member Schlepnier's Avatar
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    Thumbs up

    I was thinking about getting one of those style of rigs, but i think i will just stick with my uncle mikes.
    +thought for the day+
    ++victory needs no explanation, defeat allows none++

  3. #3
    Regular Member OrangeIsTrouble's Avatar
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    Did you even watch the video at all?


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  4. #4
    Regular Member sempercarry's Avatar
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    ummm yeah....why do you ask?

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    Regular Member SpyderTattoo's Avatar
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    I have a SERPA for one of my guns and I love it. I do not have the thumb drive type, I have the index finger lever type. When unholstering the index finger is actually exactly in the right place above the trigger, along side the slide, not in the trigger guard.

    The guy in the video is somewhat confusing because he's showing two different types of holsters. I'm not sure which holster he claims to be using when this ND happens.

    Maybe his skills weren't quite as up to par as he thought they were.
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    Regular Member Metalhead47's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpyderTattoo View Post
    I have a SERPA for one of my guns and I love it. I do not have the thumb drive type, I have the index finger lever type. When unholstering the index finger is actually exactly in the right place above the trigger, along side the slide, not in the trigger guard.

    The guy in the video is somewhat confusing because he's showing two different types of holsters. I'm not sure which holster he claims to be using when this ND happens.

    Maybe his skills weren't quite as up to par as he thought they were.

    What was confusing about it? He HAD been training with the thumb-lock type, THEN switched to the finger-type... "Expecting" the thumblock is what caused him to disengage the safety as he drew, then fiddling with the finger lock in a moment of "stress" caused the ND. Seems pretty clear to me. Good argument to only use one "type" of holster too.
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  7. #7
    Regular Member amlevin's Avatar
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    I'll keep my SERPA. Just like for SpyderTattoo, my finger is right on the top of the frame, below the slide when I draw. I also carry my Sig "de-cocked", unlike those with SA pistols. My first shot is DA with more trigger pull required than many SA's with re-worked triggers.

    Perhaps it would be wise, before anyone junked their SERPA's on the basis of this video, to evaluate whether their firearm is susceptible to this problem.

    It's been my finding that far more ND's are caused by people "diddling" with their holstered firearms when bored than while actually drawing it.

    As for SERPA's, if people don't like 'em, don't buy 'em. Same rules apply for holsters as for firearms. Buy what you like.
    "If I shoot all the ammo I am carrying I either won't need anymore or more won't help"

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    I just tried my SERPA with my G30. Index finger falls on the frame. Off course, it could slide down to the trigger. You could pull the trigger, and shoot yourself. I don't recommend that. Bad finger!

    I'm with Amlevin and Spyder Tattoo, I like my SERPA.

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    Don't go throwing away it so quickly...

    If you saw the video... you would know several things... like he admits this is his fault. Not the holster.

    1) Not everyone will be drawing and practicing in such a manner
    2) Not everyone will transition from a semi to 1911 (simply because they don't have both)
    3) You now know to be careful and when transitioning from different "platforms" gun design to holster - to slow down and get "re familiar" with the design and function

    This ND happened due to several things that shouldn't have happened... but it all did all at once.
    -mistook the thumb latch as the safety (on the previous thumb holster)
    -over engaged the trigger finger release on the new holster and was more used to placing his finger on the previous gun (Glock)... not so good since there is no or little travel on a 1911 plus it only typically has a 5 pound trigger which combined with struggling to release the gun from the holster...

    So bottomline: he admits and it was his own fault. Many layers of things happened

    So if you want to use this as PROOF... you are not using it correctly as it does not prove your point.

    But as mentioned before - if you don't like it don't use it or buy it. Now I'll also include that some may think that just focusing on one gun is the way to go. I would support that for many practical reasons. 1) most folks only have one primary firearm

    But I will say for those that have multiple firearms... to take it slow and ensure you are familiar with it enough before going "gung ho" like this guy did.

    Me personally, I have many firearms and carry many different firearms due to season and attire...

    Stay safe and learn either by direct experience or others. This definitely you want to learn from others...
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    Quote Originally Posted by sempercarry View Post
    that it had led to several hundred NDs and injuries
    Two words... Horse ****.

    The only thing leading to a ND is lack of training by the owner. The holster has nothing to do with it. The finger disengage is not located at the same level as the trigger. It is located along the top of the frame underneath the slide.

    If you are drawing from that holster with your finger on the trigger it is you who is messing up, not the holster.

    I have used the Serpa in competition and trained with it every time I go shooting. I have never had my finger on the trigger on the draw until I chose to put it there. This applies to multiple firearms with different styles and safeties.
    Last edited by David.Car; 07-07-2011 at 12:37 PM.

  11. #11
    Founder's Club Member thebigsd's Avatar
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    As previously pointed out, the gentleman in the video admitted fault. The SERPA is used correctly by thousands of people including myself. I have three for three different guns and have never had an issue even after hundreds of draws. If you are trying to say that SERPAs are poor holsters, this is clearly the wrong video to illustrate that point.
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  12. #12
    Opt-Out Members BigDave's Avatar
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    This guy stepped all over himself, this gun has a safety and should have never fired even if he had pulled the trigger at this point, thus the safety was off, as he admits later in the video. Keep your burger finger off the trigger until target is acquired and you know what is beyond it.
    I have been and support the issue when using a 1911 once you pull the gun out of the holster and bring up to a shooting position as you push out to your target the safety comes off then.

    As to criticizing the Sepra Holster, I use mine often, never an issue and I use a XD, never have I had my finger on the trigger when drawing but it lands along the slide as it should be.

    Your review has fallen flat.
    Last edited by BigDave; 07-07-2011 at 01:31 PM.
    • Being prepared is to prepare, this is our responsibility.
    • I am not your Mommy or Daddy and do not sugar coat it but I will tell you simply as how I see it, it is up to you on how you will or will not use it.
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  13. #13
    Regular Member sempercarry's Avatar
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    Bigdave...as I previously told you, you are on my ignore list so I cannot see your post. I can only assume that is has some condescending and overall ridiculous remark(s) in it. As for the rest, the serpa is the issued tactical holster in the Marine Corps and I voiced my disapproval to my command at the choice. I am not saying that if you buy this holster that you will have an ND, I am saying that it has been an issue for some and that this guy is one of them. Everybody's hands and draw strokes are different and during a high stress adrenaline filled encounter I personally don't want my holster to add to the friction of the situation. I am not posting this to bash Serpa or to tell you to melt your holster and buy a new one....just saying it is something to consider.

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    Regular Member OrangeIsTrouble's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sempercarry View Post
    Bigdave...as I previously told you, you are on my ignore list so I cannot see your post. I can only assume that is has some condescending and overall ridiculous remark(s) in it. As for the rest, the serpa is the issued tactical holster in the Marine Corps and I voiced my disapproval to my command at the choice. I am not saying that if you buy this holster that you will have an ND, I am saying that it has been an issue for some and that this guy is one of them. Everybody's hands and draw strokes are different and during a high stress adrenaline filled encounter I personally don't want my holster to add to the friction of the situation. I am not posting this to bash Serpa or to tell you to melt your holster and buy a new one....just saying it is something to consider.
    Quote Originally Posted by GreenIsFaster View Post
    Did you even watch the video at all?

    Now I'll ask this. Did you even read the above replies?


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    Regular Member sempercarry's Avatar
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    Yes I did....again, why do you ask?

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    Regular Member amlevin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sempercarry View Post
    the serpa is the issued tactical holster in the Marine Corps and I voiced my disapproval to my command at the choice. I am not saying that if you buy this holster that you will have an ND, I am saying that it has been an issue for some and that this guy is one of them.
    According to some recent information, there are approximately 180,000 Marines on active duty. That would indicate that there are many, many, many, SERPA's in use in the Corps. Apparently the issue you have with the holster hasn't proven to be the problem you feel it is or it wouldn't be issued as a tactical holster.

    One thing certain, it's a proven fact that the Services have never satisfied all their members with the equipment they are issued. Some merely take it, learn to use it, and go do their job. There are some who feel obligated to complain. It's that way in every branch and apparently it will always be so.
    "If I shoot all the ammo I am carrying I either won't need anymore or more won't help"

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    Opt-Out Members BigDave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sempercarry View Post
    Bigdave...as I previously told you, you are on my ignore list so I cannot see your post. I can only assume that is has some condescending and overall ridiculous remark(s) in it. As for the rest, the serpa is the issued tactical holster in the Marine Corps and I voiced my disapproval to my command at the choice. I am not saying that if you buy this holster that you will have an ND, I am saying that it has been an issue for some and that this guy is one of them. Everybody's hands and draw strokes are different and during a high stress adrenaline filled encounter I personally don't want my holster to add to the friction of the situation. I am not posting this to bash Serpa or to tell you to melt your holster and buy a new one....just saying it is something to consider.
    The largest part of the ignore function is to ignore, but it is clear this is not a capability you have at this time.

    Watch the entire video, he does not blame Serpa but himself, where it actually where the blame is to fall.
    • Being prepared is to prepare, this is our responsibility.
    • I am not your Mommy or Daddy and do not sugar coat it but I will tell you simply as how I see it, it is up to you on how you will or will not use it.
    • IANAL, all information I present is for your review, do your own homework.

  18. #18
    Activist Member golddigger14s's Avatar
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    If you press the release button with the pad of your finger and not the tip, and keep it straight you will end up on the side of the gun. I know at least with my Taurus my finger ends up on my index pad.
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  19. #19
    Regular Member carry for myself's Avatar
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    you can clearly see him clear the holster, then wrap his finger around the trigger. not wrap as he is clearing or as he is actuating the mechanisim. this is user error. some may not like this because they like to dis serpa's and a dislike is your personal opinion. however you cannot blame a holster when your fingers on the boom boom switch. JMO
    i would rather run out of blood, breath and life. and die fighting. than run out of ammo , and die with my pants down -Tom Scantas

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    It's interesting. In this video, Todd Jarrett seems to activate the lock release with the tip of his trigger finger, with the finger distinctly bent, counter to what seems the safest way . . . slow it down and watch the draws at about 1:02.

    Last edited by deanf; 07-07-2011 at 07:47 PM.

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    Following the same line of reasoning:

    "I'm selling all of my automobiles because I saw a guy on youtube who crashed his car (while drinking and doing 90MPH) and got very badly injured during the crash...."

    If that's all it takes for you to abandon ship, so be it.

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    I am quite satisfied with my SERPA CQC. Anyone who wants to get rid of theirs send it to me.

  23. #23
    Campaign Veteran gogodawgs's Avatar
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    I'm old fashioned!

    I prefer the smell of leather for all of my guns!
    Live Free or Die!

  24. #24
    Regular Member Squeak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gogodawgs View Post
    I prefer the smell of leather for all of my guns!
    YES! LEATHER

  25. #25
    Regular Member Metalhead47's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Squeak View Post
    YES! LEATHER
    THIRD

    ...from the guy who doesn't own a leather holster cuz no one makes one that fits
    It is very wise to not take a watermelon lightly.

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