Results 1 to 20 of 20

Thread: How Cuccinelli's opinion on UVA's gun ban relates to the GMU decision

  1. #1
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    US
    Posts
    3,156

    How Cuccinelli's opinion on UVA's gun ban relates to the GMU decision

    _____
    Last edited by nova; 12-09-2012 at 10:25 PM.

  2. #2
    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    North Chesterfield VA
    Posts
    10,682
    As regards GMU, the decision handed down in DiGiacinto v. The Rector and Visitors of George Mason University, 281 Va. 127, 704 S.E.2d 365 (2011) January 13, 2011 does in fact state that the insides of the buildings are in fact sensitive areas. Further, those with CHPs are still not permitted to carry inside the buildings at GMU or VCU as their regulations (Va Administrative Code) has the force of law. However, it seems that the AGs opinion strengthens the fact that carry on the grounds outside the buildings should not be sanctioned by any reading of the applicable VAC.

    As has been noted elsewhere, the General Assembly is keeping an eye on the issue of just how much authority the Boards of Visitors can exert over citizens of the Commonwealth who are not directly connected to the colleges/universities by enrollment or employment. That same General Assembly is also contemplating whether and how much of a jumble of state agency policies ought to be allowed with regards to the control of firearms. Some think that agencies that do not have a direct tie to issues regarding firearms (Dept. of Corrections/Juvenile Justice. Game & Inland Fisheries) may soon be told to take their noses out of the matter.

    stay safe.

  3. #3
    Regular Member ocholsteroc's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Virginia, Hampton Roads, NC 9 miles away
    Posts
    1,317
    So now that those with CHPs are free to carry into university buildings at the vast majority of Virginia public universities, can universities like GMU really claim that they're sensitive areas? Especially since everyone except employees and students are free to carry there.


    State agency preemption in 2012!
    What happen???????? Was I a sleep? college carry legal in 2012?
    Last edited by ocholsteroc; 07-07-2011 at 12:45 PM.
    How come a DUI you can get your driver licence back, which it is a privilege. But if commiting a felon, even something non violent like stealing, you are denied your constitutional rights for the rest of your life?
    If you don't support the Second Amendment to the Constitution, what other parts of the Constitution do you reject?
    More restrictions on guns? how about restrictions on chainsaws and knives?

  4. #4
    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    North Chesterfield VA
    Posts
    10,682
    Quote Originally Posted by ocholsteroc View Post
    What happen???????? Was I a sleep? college carry legal in 2012?
    Go here http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/sh...o-Guns’-Policy and read. College/University carry inside the buildings is legal for those with CHPs in 2011 (no waiting, no line - come on in!) except at GMU and VCU. Carry OC or CC is legal outside for all, but we already knew that.

    BTW - none of this applies if you are student, staff or faculty and get caught.

    stay safe.

  5. #5
    Regular Member ocholsteroc's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Virginia, Hampton Roads, NC 9 miles away
    Posts
    1,317
    BTW - none of this applies if you are student, staff or faculty and get caught.


    So who does this benefit?? parents visiting their children?
    Last edited by ocholsteroc; 07-07-2011 at 02:35 PM.
    How come a DUI you can get your driver licence back, which it is a privilege. But if commiting a felon, even something non violent like stealing, you are denied your constitutional rights for the rest of your life?
    If you don't support the Second Amendment to the Constitution, what other parts of the Constitution do you reject?
    More restrictions on guns? how about restrictions on chainsaws and knives?

  6. #6
    Regular Member Thundar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Newport News, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    4,961
    Quote Originally Posted by ocholsteroc View Post


    So who does this benefit?? parents visiting their children?
    Silly Rabbit,

    This benefits the LAWYERS, of course.
    He wore his gun outside his pants for all the honest world to see. Pancho & Lefty

    The millions of people, armed in the holy cause of liberty, and in such a country as that which we possess, are invincible by any force which our enemy can send against us....There is no retreat but in submission and slavery! ...The war is inevitable–and let it come! I repeat it, Sir, let it come …………. PATRICK HENRY speech 1776

  7. #7
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    US
    Posts
    3,156
    Quote Originally Posted by ocholsteroc View Post
    What happen???????? Was I a sleep? college carry legal in 2012?
    A goal for us during the next legislative session!

  8. #8
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    US
    Posts
    3,156
    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    As regards GMU, the decision handed down in DiGiacinto v. The Rector and Visitors of George Mason University, 281 Va. 127, 704 S.E.2d 365 (2011) January 13, 2011 does in fact state that the insides of the buildings are in fact sensitive areas.
    The point I was getting at was that GMU claims their buildings are sensitive areas, when all other public universites aside from VCU are not. How does GMU's buildings differ from Virginia Tech's? JMU's? ODU's? Aside from the fact GMU got their ban put into VAC, absolutely nothing. GMU's defense claimed that they are no different from any other school in VA, where guns are banned for the most part (K-12). This new opinion by the AG says otherwise.

  9. #9
    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    13,580
    Quote Originally Posted by nova View Post
    A goal for us during the next legislative session!
    Properly worded, yep! Another Stanton bill.........
    Last edited by peter nap; 07-07-2011 at 08:48 PM.

  10. #10
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Richmond, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    192
    Quote Originally Posted by ocholsteroc View Post


    So who does this benefit?? parents visiting their children?
    He he....I resemble that remark!!!!

    WOO HOO!!!!

  11. #11
    Accomplished Advocate user's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Northern Piedmont of Virginia
    Posts
    2,373

    Yeah, well...

    All this nonsense could be eliminated if the courts were to take Article 1, section 13 of the Virginia Constitution seriously and apply it as written. I'd even be in favor of amending it to allow the legislature to regulate possession of weapons by crazy people, noncitizens, and convicted felons having a demonstrated proclivity to violent crime. Beyond that, the right to self-defense is more important than eliminating all threats to public safety (many of which are effectively eliminated by intelligent preparation on the part of people who are determined to defend themselves).

    I have also always been of the opinion that administrative regulations should be limited in their effect to regulating the administrative agencies. Only the elected legislature should have any power to regulate the behavior of citizens.
    Daniel L. Hawes - 540 347 2430 - HTTP://www.VirginiaLegalDefense.com

    By the way, nothing I say on this website as "user" should be taken as either advertising for attorney services or legal advice, merely personal opinion. Everyone having a question regarding the application of law to the facts of their situation should seek the advice of an attorney competent in the subject matter of the issues presented and licensed to practice in the relevant state.

  12. #12
    Regular Member Thundar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Newport News, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    4,961
    Quote Originally Posted by user View Post
    All this nonsense could be eliminated if the courts were to take Article 1, section 13 of the Virginia Constitution seriously and apply it as written. I'd even be in favor of amending it to allow the legislature to regulate possession of weapons by crazy people, noncitizens, and convicted felons having a demonstrated proclivity to violent crime.
    non-citizens?

    I believe the RKBA is a pre-existing human right that flows from the natural law right to self defence.

    I believe that the 2A applies to all that are in this country legally.
    He wore his gun outside his pants for all the honest world to see. Pancho & Lefty

    The millions of people, armed in the holy cause of liberty, and in such a country as that which we possess, are invincible by any force which our enemy can send against us....There is no retreat but in submission and slavery! ...The war is inevitable–and let it come! I repeat it, Sir, let it come …………. PATRICK HENRY speech 1776

  13. #13
    Accomplished Advocate user's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Northern Piedmont of Virginia
    Posts
    2,373
    Quote Originally Posted by Thundar View Post
    non-citizens?

    I believe the RKBA is a pre-existing human right that flows from the natural law right to self defence.

    I believe that the 2A applies to all that are in this country legally.
    Fine; what I'm saying is that it is a subject where "reasonable regulation" could apply. The legislature may well decide that everyone should be armed; it is, at present, an area in which regulation by statute now exists in violation of the Virginia Constitution. I'd just like the written Constitution to square with reality, and to treat the Constitution as if it were really the rule we're following. The game is just no fun if the biggest, strongest players can just make the rules up as we go along.
    Daniel L. Hawes - 540 347 2430 - HTTP://www.VirginiaLegalDefense.com

    By the way, nothing I say on this website as "user" should be taken as either advertising for attorney services or legal advice, merely personal opinion. Everyone having a question regarding the application of law to the facts of their situation should seek the advice of an attorney competent in the subject matter of the issues presented and licensed to practice in the relevant state.

  14. #14
    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    North Chesterfield VA
    Posts
    10,682
    Quote Originally Posted by user View Post
    .... I'd just like the written Constitution to square with reality, and to treat the Constitution as if it were really the rule we're following. The game is just no fun if the biggest, strongest players can just make the rules up as we go along.
    You have that first clause backwards - reality needs to square with the Constitution. Otherwise it's a carpenter making a cut and then using the cut to see if his square matches. One may show an error, but it's important to recognize which one is the standard the other is being compared to.

    And I always looked up to attorneys as bastions of pedantic absolutism (when I agreed with what they were pedantically proclaiming as being absolute).

    stay safe.

  15. #15
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    North Chesterfield, Va.
    Posts
    34,622
    Quote Originally Posted by nova View Post
    A goal for us during the next legislative session!
    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post
    Properly worded, yep! Another Stanton bill.........
    This is a major priority!!!!

    It directly benefits all Virginians who hold dear the RKBA and believe that the right to self-defense should not be compromised.

    Will be pushing hard to see this flying at the top of the mast head for the next legislative session. The work begins now, no waiting for the session to begin.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  16. #16
    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Most historic town in, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    7,705
    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    This is a major priority!!!!

    It directly benefits all Virginians who hold dear the RKBA and believe that the right to self-defense should not be compromised.

    Will be pushing hard to see this flying at the top of the mast head for the next legislative session. The work begins now, no waiting for the session to begin.
    This alone will be enough to motivate Marsh to live to 110. We've all seen it... he's a man on a mission, a deluded mission, but to his mind, a mission nonetheless.

    TFred

  17. #17
    Regular Member Thundar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Newport News, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    4,961
    Quote Originally Posted by user View Post
    I'd just like the written Constitution to square with reality, and to treat the Constitution as if it were really the rule we're following. The game is just no fun if the biggest, strongest players can just make the rules up as we go along.
    You speak of the difference between a constitutional republic and a representative democracy. +1000 User. Personally I would just like reality to square with the constitution, with alot less power in the hands of the biggest strongest players.

    We see this sort of Rex Lex attitude from all 3 branches of Federal and Commonwealth Government, with players in each branch of government making themselves king.

    Eventually we need to get back to our Lex Rex roots with government officials that are bound by the Federal and Commonwealth Constitutions or we will wake up in democracy hell.
    Last edited by Thundar; 07-08-2011 at 11:35 AM.
    He wore his gun outside his pants for all the honest world to see. Pancho & Lefty

    The millions of people, armed in the holy cause of liberty, and in such a country as that which we possess, are invincible by any force which our enemy can send against us....There is no retreat but in submission and slavery! ...The war is inevitable–and let it come! I repeat it, Sir, let it come …………. PATRICK HENRY speech 1776

  18. #18
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    North Chesterfield, Va.
    Posts
    34,622
    Quote Originally Posted by TFred View Post
    This alone will be enough to motivate Marsh to live to 110. We've all seen it... he's a man on a mission, a deluded mission, but to his mind, a mission nonetheless.

    TFred
    There are ways to neutralize his influence - it is on that that there remains much work.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  19. #19
    Regular Member Repeater's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Richmond, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    2,519

    Dan Casey and Larry Hincker

    Quote Originally Posted by user View Post
    All this nonsense could be eliminated if the courts were to take Article 1, section 13 of the Virginia Constitution seriously and apply it as written. I'd even be in favor of amending it to allow the legislature to regulate possession of weapons by crazy people, noncitizens, and convicted felons having a demonstrated proclivity to violent crime. Beyond that, the right to self-defense is more important than eliminating all threats to public safety (many of which are effectively eliminated by intelligent preparation on the part of people who are determined to defend themselves).

    I have also always been of the opinion that administrative regulations should be limited in their effect to regulating the administrative agencies. Only the elected legislature should have any power to regulate the behavior of citizens.
    Dan Casey discusses this topic, comments on various commenters.

    He then adds this:
    Larry Hincker told me today that Tech believes that the “policy” is binding upon students and universities employees, even if it may not be on visitors.

    Thus, they could be kicked out of school or dismissed for violating the university policy, which they agree to abide by as a condition of attending school or working there.

  20. #20
    Regular Member paramedic70002's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Franklin, VA, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    1,448
    This regulation v policy among VA universities issue BEGS for a legislative fix no matter what side of the fence you're on.

    Also the OC v CC issue. If we had a law passed that said, "OC is legal because it's not illegal" would that help? /sarcasm!
    "Each worker carried his sword strapped to his side." Nehemiah 4:18

    Guns Save Lives. Paramedics Save Lives. But...
    Paramedics With Guns Scare People!

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •