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Thread: Vehicle definition is now even more confusing

  1. #1
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    Vehicle definition is now even more confusing

    Just received a PDF file of the official 2011 deer hunting regulations from the DNR. These firearm regulations are in the regulations.
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Definitions

    Vehicle: includes any device, motorized or not, in, upon, or by which any person or
    property is or may be transported or towed upon a highway or other roadway

    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Arms Transportation
    • All firearms must be unloaded and completely enclosed within carrying cases
    designed to carry a firearm when in or on any vehicle, whether moving or stationary.
    A holster is not a legal carrying case for a handgun in a vehicle unless it completely
    encloses the handgun. All firearms must be unloaded when in or on any motor driven
    boat while the motor is running.
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    • possess any firearm from 12:00 midnight–11:59 p.m. on November 18, 2011 unless
    the firearm is unloaded and enclosed within a carrying case. Exceptions: target
    shooting at established target ranges, target shooting on private lands by landowners
    and immediate family members who live with them, waterfowl hunting during open
    season, hunting game birds on licensed bird hunting preserves, and hunting turkeys
    and small game in CWD Management Zone units.
    N ote: An established target range means an existing location that is set up for target
    shooting with firearms as its major purpose

    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    • You may not possess a concealed handgun.
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    2. Discharge a firearm, shoot an arrow from a bow, or a bolt from a crossbow:
    a. from or across a highway, or
    b. within 50 feet of the roadway’s center.
    The above prohibition applies to all public roads (defined above). Certain exceptions
    are allowed for Class A and B Disabled Permit holders. Call the DNR Call Center (see
    page 55) for an explanation of these exceptions
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


    Most concerning is the difference in the definition of vehicle between the DNR regulations and those contained in SB93:

    Vehicle in SB93 is defined as such:

    340.01(35)
    (35) "Motor vehicle" means a vehicle, including a combination of 2 or more vehicles or an articulated vehicle, which is self-propelled, except a vehicle operated exclusively on a rail. "Motor vehicle" includes, without limitation, a commercial motor vehicle or a vehicle which is propelled by electric power obtained from overhead trolley wires but not operated on rails. A snowmobile and an all-terrain vehicle shall only be considered motor vehicles for purposes made specifically applicable by statute.
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Is it implied that the vehicle carry of loaded uncased handguns is only allowed on motorized vehicle and ATV's?


    I have not received a response from the DNR as to whether or not the regulations will be changed after governor signage of SB93.

  2. #2
    Regular Member oliverclotheshoff's Avatar
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    one word preemption
    SCOTT

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    A wheelborrow and a garden cart would be "vehicles" since they can be used to transport property down a roadway.

    I find the boat thing interesting as well and I suspect a few anglers are going to get citations while boating and fishing.

    I'm now also wondering if the Coast Guard will offer an opinion on the CCW legislation relating to boaters in Lake Michigan and Lake Superior since those are waters with international borders.

    I'm going to wait until Gov. Walker signs it and then read the final version. And as to the DNR, I suspect the DNR is already having discussions with their legal staff.

    Also, that after midnight period in November is another grey area as to if the DNR is within their authority to enforce that against non-hunters and against hunters not actively at a hunting site.

  4. #4
    Regular Member Fallschirmjäger's Avatar
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    A small correction:
    The word used was "may" not "can".
    The difference? I Can kill you; I've got a gun, ammunition, the proper skillset and the willingness to do so. However, I'm pretty sure I don't have your permission, or the state's, to do so. I am not permitted to do so which probably makes us both happy with the cost of ammo these days. (And please don't take offense at a rather extreme example )

    You can drive an unlicensed car on the road, but you do not have permission to do so.
    You can put a rowboat on the road and push it along with the oars, since the law doesn't even require wheels, but the state does not permit such activity.

    May and Can confusion?
    Last edited by Fallschirmjäger; 07-07-2011 at 10:16 AM.

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    Preemption statute 66.0409 only applies to political subdivisions of the state i.e. city, county, village, town. The DNR is a state agency.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Nemo View Post
    I have not received a response from the DNR as to whether or not the regulations will be changed after governor signage of SB93.

    I suspect these rules will change. The Big Game regulations needed to come out by now so people would know seasons, DMU, license info, etc. They have issued changes in past years from what was printed originally.

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    Campaign Veteran GLOCK21GB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by phred View Post
    I suspect these rules will change. The Big Game regulations needed to come out by now so people would know seasons, DMU, license info, etc. They have issued changes in past years from what was printed originally.
    you would think that after the Gov Signs SB93 and becomes STATE LAW the Jack Booted DNR WILL HAVE NO CHOICE as Carrying a loaded pistol in a holster IN A VEHICLE will be LEGAL YEAR ROUND.
    Last edited by GLOCK21GB; 07-07-2011 at 10:54 AM.
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    Regular Member Lurchiron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glock34 View Post
    you would think that after the Gov Signs SB93 and becomes STATE LAW the Jack Booted DNR WILL HAVE NO CHOICE as Carrying a loaded pistol in a holster IN A VEHICLE will be LEGAL YEAR ROUND.
    Yeah buddy...

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    I received this reply from the DNR.

    Thanks for writing. The 2011 deer regulations do not currently include updated language reflecting the changes in SB93 because it is not currently law. After the Governor signs SB93 into law and the law goes into effect, then the electronic version of the regulations, available on the DNR website, will be updated to reflect the new law or some similar communication about how the changes will affect hunters will be offered; this could include press releases, frequently asked question updates on the DNR website, or other similar means of communication. Considering the high profile nature of this bill, the DNR will make every effort to communicate the changes that will result with the new law, and how those changes affect hunting and public property users. The regulation booklets will not be reprinted when this change is official because of the large number of copies of the deer regulations that are printed each year and the costs associated with printing that number of booklets. Currently, we do not know when the law will go into effect, but it could be as late as October or November. We were unable to delay the printing of the booklets for the Governor's signature because there were multiple deadlines that had to be met to ensure that the printed regulations were purchased in the correct fiscal year and also available for planning September bow hunts.

    Meaghan E. Proctor
    Rules and Regulations Assistant
    Bureau of Wildlife Management
    Wisconsin Department of Natural Resources
    (() phone: (608) 266-2194
    (+) e-mail: Meaghan.Proctor@wisconsin.gov

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    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Nemo View Post
    I received this reply from the DNR.

    Thanks for writing. The 2011 deer regulations do not currently include updated language reflecting the changes in SB93 because it is not currently law. After the Governor signs SB93 into law and the law goes into effect, then the electronic version of the regulations, available on the DNR website, will be updated to reflect the new law or some similar communication about how the changes will affect hunters will be offered; this could include press releases, frequently asked question updates on the DNR website, or other similar means of communication. Considering the high profile nature of this bill, the DNR will make every effort to communicate the changes that will result with the new law, and how those changes affect hunting and public property users. The regulation booklets will not be reprinted when this change is official because of the large number of copies of the deer regulations that are printed each year and the costs associated with printing that number of booklets. Currently, we do not know when the law will go into effect, but it could be as late as October or November. We were unable to delay the printing of the booklets for the Governor's signature because there were multiple deadlines that had to be met to ensure that the printed regulations were purchased in the correct fiscal year and also available for planning September bow hunts.

    Meaghan E. Proctor
    Rules and Regulations Assistant
    Bureau of Wildlife Management
    Wisconsin Department of Natural Resources
    (() phone: (608) 266-2194
    (+) e-mail: Meaghan.Proctor@wisconsin.gov
    I am glad to see that their response to agrees with what I posted. Heaven forbid that I blaspheme the DNR.

  11. #11
    Regular Member Interceptor_Knight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Nemo View Post
    Just received a PDF file of the official 2011 deer hunting regulations from the DNR. These firearm regulations are in the regulations..
    There is neither anything truly "official" about nor does the paper rule book contain any actual regulations. By its own proclamation, it is simply a summary. The definition of "vehicle" takes the Statute and puts it in plain language. There is no special DNR definition.

    Taken from the front page of the paper booklet.....
    This pamphlet gives you a summary of Wisconsin’s important deer
    hunting laws and how they affect you; it is not a complete set of all
    the hunting related laws.
    Last edited by Interceptor_Knight; 07-07-2011 at 03:02 PM.

  12. #12
    Regular Member Interceptor_Knight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Nemo View Post
    I have not received a response from the DNR as to whether or not the regulations will be changed after governor signage of SB93.
    Quote Originally Posted by phred View Post
    I suspect these rules will change. The Big Game regulations needed to come out by now so people would know seasons, DMU, license info, etc. They have issued changes in past years from what was printed originally.
    Quote Originally Posted by Glock34 View Post
    you would think that after the Gov Signs SB93 and becomes STATE LAW the Jack Booted DNR WILL HAVE NO CHOICE as Carrying a loaded pistol in a holster IN A VEHICLE will be LEGAL YEAR ROUND.
    There are no regulations for the DNR to change. The DNR has nothing to do with the change of Statutes. The DNR has no rules/reglations, etc regarding the carry of firearms in or on a vehicle. The DNR has no choice but to enforce current Statutes. Any citations would be thrown out of court as no "law" would have been violated. I don't expect there to be any issues.
    Future publications of the little paper pamphlets will reflect the changes to WI Statute made by SB93 and they may or may not edit the 2011 versions available on line. I would not expect them to print new 2011 versions which reflect the pending changes.

  13. #13
    Regular Member Interceptor_Knight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Nemo View Post
    • possess any firearm from 12:00 midnight–11:59 p.m. on November 18, 2011 unless
    the firearm is unloaded and enclosed within a carrying case. Exceptions: target
    shooting at established target ranges, target shooting on private lands by landowners
    and immediate family members who live with them, waterfowl hunting during open
    season, hunting game birds on licensed bird hunting preserves, and hunting turkeys
    and small game in CWD Management Zone units.
    N ote: An established target range means an existing location that is set up for target
    shooting with firearms as its major purpose
    .
    As i pointed out previously, there is an error here as the Statute does not require for the family member to live with the land owner for the exception. I have already contacted the DNR and expect a response today or tomorrow regarding that typo.
    Last edited by Interceptor_Knight; 07-07-2011 at 03:28 PM.

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