What does, "secured" mean, in the concealed-weapon statute?

Here's a short memo I filed recently in a case that involved precisely that issue.
The Commonwealth's Attorney moved the Court to nolle pros. the case
(dismissal without prejudice), which was granted. The client gets his gun back.

http://virginialegaldefense.com/Stuff/Documents/secured_defined.pdf

Interesting read, can't wait to hear novacops opinion on this.

Good work! It is good to know that Virginia law does not dictate that secured means locked. Thanks.

First, I find it interesting that your memo did not make any reference to the fact that the bill that changed the code to allow for "secured in a container" was specifically changed by the Governor from "locked" to "secured" (and sent back for subsequent approval), which would seem to be the clearest of all indicators that the General Assembly did not mean "locked".

Second... I can't resist posting this old joke... Forgive me for straying off topic just a bit...

TFred

If you are at liberty to share... are you saying that someone was arrested and charged for violating the Concealed Handgun law because they had not "locked" the gun in a container inside a car?

TFred

Good job, User. Your memo certainly rebuffs the claim that "secured" means "locked". I'm guessing that the next round will entail using your examples to show what "secured in a container or compartment" means.

§ 18.2-308. Personal protection; carrying concealed weapons; when lawful to carry.

10. Any person who may lawfully possess a firearm and is carrying a handgun while in a personal, private motor vehicle or vessel and such handgun is secured in a container or compartment in the vehicle or vessel.

For example, if I remove my holstered HG from my belt and place it in the glove compartment as is, the entire package can still move around, and would not be "secured" because there is no restraining device attached to both the holster and the container which would restrict movement within the glove compartment, even though the gun cannot move within the holster. Now if I had a holster fastened inside the glove compartment and inserted the HG into it, then the gun would be "secured in a container or compartment in the vehicle". As a practical matter, the glove compartment in my wife's car is fairly full, leaving little room for my holstered HG to move around, so in this case, I'd claim it's secured. Also, when the vehicle is parked, there's little possibility of motion.

Now, if I put the holstered HG into an empty briefcase, or I put the HG into a holster attached inside the briefcase, then leave the briefcase on the seat...

Interesting read.
A firearm in a holster that will not allow it to fall out (drop out without pulling) should satisfy the secured requirement especially if it on the belt.

TFred said:

If you are at liberty to share... are you saying that someone was arrested and charged for violating the Concealed Handgun law because they had not "locked" the gun in a container inside a car?

TFred

Click to expand...

User mentioned this case a while back TFred.
User will give details I hope but from memory it was in a factory case inside a backpack stored behind a truck seat...Something like that.

I'm interested in one thing Dan.

When this bill passed it said "Locked".
McDonnell didn't sign it, he sent it back asking they change it to "secured".
They did and sent it back to McDonnell who then signed it.

Legislative is rarely clear in Va but in this case it is clear that the GA did NOT mean locked after the revision.

Is there a reason you didn't point that out or did it just slip by?

altajava said:

interesting read, can't wait to hear novacops opinion on this.

Click to expand...

please don't wish for unpleasant things!

peter nap said:

I'm interested in one thing Dan.

When this bill passed it said "Locked".
McDonnell didn't sign it, he sent it back asking they change it to "secured".
They did and sent it back to McDonnell who then signed it.

Legislative is rarely clear in Va but in this case it is clear that the GA did NOT mean locked after the revision.

Is there a reason you didn't point that out or did it just slip by?

Click to expand...

Ha ha, that's the exact same thing I asked (although with fewer words) in my first post!

TFred

TFred said:

Ha ha, that's the exact same thing I asked (although with fewer words) in my first post!

TFred

Click to expand...

Sorry... I'm fighting a problem clip in after effects and flipping between it and this page while the video renders:banghead:

peter nap said:

Sorry... I'm fighting a problem clip in after effects and flipping between it and this page while the video renders:banghead:

Click to expand...

I wasn't complaining... great minds and all...

TFred

Fall out? That would be bad

Agent19 said:

Interesting read.
A firearm in a holster that will not allow it to fall out (drop out without pulling) should satisfy the secured requirement especially if it on the belt.

Click to expand...

Kids are taught in (public) schools to respect the police; after all, they make great role models.

They set a good example, usually. Kids are taught to learn from cops; they know what they're doing.

Here is an example of a police-secured weapon:



Um, this would never happen in Virginia, right?

if I remove my holstered HG from my belt and place it in the glove compartment as is, the entire package can still move around, and would not be "secured" because there is no restraining device attached to both the holster and the container which would restrict movement within the glove compartment,

Click to expand...

It is indeed "secured" in that it cannot leave the compartment on its own. Read user's posted pdf, especially the example of the child seat. The child is indeed free to move within the confines of his seat in which he is secured, he is just not able to leave those confines unassisted. Secured need not mean "immobilized".

TFred said:

First, I find it interesting that your memo did not make any reference to the fact that the bill that changed the code to allow for "secured in a container" was specifically changed by the Governor from "locked" to "secured" (and sent back for subsequent approval), which would seem to be the clearest of all indicators that the General Assembly did not mean "locked"....

Click to expand...

and,

peter nap said:

I'm interested in one thing Dan.

When this bill passed it said "Locked".
McDonnell didn't sign it, he sent it back asking they change it to "secured".
They did and sent it back to McDonnell who then signed it.

Legislative is rarely clear in Va but in this case it is clear that the GA did NOT mean locked after the revision.

Is there a reason you didn't point that out or did it just slip by?

Click to expand...

You're right, and I wish I could have done so. But legislative history, which is admissible in federal courts to prove what the intent of Congress had been in enacting specific legislation, is inadmissible in Virginia. The legislature is presumed to know how to write laws, and Virginia Courts will construe the language actually used in the statute as they understand it.

TFred said:

If you are at liberty to share... are you saying that someone was arrested and charged for violating the Concealed Handgun law because they had not "locked" the gun in a container inside a car?

TFred

Click to expand...

That is correct. The gun was in a closed Glock bag, inside a closed knapsack, in a vehicle, and in the possession of a person otherwise lawfully entitled to be in possession of the handgun. Charge was carrying a concealed weapon.

user said:

That is correct. The gun was in a closed Glock bag, inside a closed knapsack, in a vehicle, and in the possession of a person otherwise lawfully entitled to be in possession of the handgun. Charge was carrying a concealed weapon.

Click to expand...

user,

Question here - the statute says container or compartment in the vehicle. Do you think that the legislative intent was a container or compartment of the vehicle, like the glove compartment?

I ask because this was initially advertised (to my recollection) as being a way that someone could legally keep a handgun in their glove compartment without a CHP. I was kind of surprised when I read it to say IN.

user said:

That is correct. The gun was in a closed Glock bag, inside a closed knapsack, in a vehicle, and in the possession of a person otherwise lawfully entitled to be in possession of the handgun. Charge was carrying a concealed weapon.

Click to expand...

If it's not prying ...How did they find it?

Wow! Thanks, User. Great stuff!