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Thread: Open carry in car question

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    Open carry in car question

    Hi im new to website forums and firearms so bare with me. I was wondering how to transport my pistol in my car without my ccw permit, do i keep the firearm unloaded and seperate from the ammo then when i get to my destination load it and then open carry? and does anyone know of any downriver open carry problems?

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    Regular Member xmanhockey7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mjudd View Post
    Hi im new to website forums and firearms so bare with me. I was wondering how to transport my pistol in my car without my ccw permit, do i keep the firearm unloaded and seperate from the ammo then when i get to my destination load it and then open carry? and does anyone know of any downriver open carry problems?
    Welcome to the site. With a CPL (don't use ccw people will correct you every time). To transport without a CPL you must put the gun in a case designed for a pistol in the truck of your car unless you have a pickup then it can be in the glove compartment or any other part that is not accessible to you. And the gun must be seperate from the ammo when you do it. Also be very aware of where you can't carry without a CPL. The one that gets most people is the liquor license. You cannot carry any place that has any liquor license even if they don't have any alcohol just a liquor license. So that would include a store like meijers. Check out the stickies and if you have any other questions please feel free to ask.
    "No state shall convert a liberty to a privilege, license it, and charge a fee therefor.- Murdock vs Pennsylvania 319 US 105

    ...If the state converts a right into a privelege, the citizen can ignore the license and fee and engage in the right... with impunity.
    - Shuttleworth vs City of Birmingham, Alabama 317 US 262

    Where rights secured by the Constitution are involved, there can be no legislation which would abrogate them.
    - Miranda vs Arizona 384 US 436

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    Welcome to OCDO.

    Read the stickies! Open carry, {OC} is not difficult, but there are some things you simply must know first.

    The gun musty be registered to you.

    http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/sh...-Guide-Project

    To answer your car question, You must keep the gun in a case designed for a firearm, and in the trunk. The gun must be empty, you can have the mag loaded, and in the case, but not in the gun. Clear the chamber. You must not come into possession of the gun at any time in the vehicle. Case, load, and unload your gun outside! Stupid, yes we know, but it is what it is. A vehicle may or may not include bicycles. IMO it does, some would disagree, but dont be the one to find out.

    The other thing you must know, is that you must not carry on the PREMISES of any place that has a liquor license of any kind. Including Krogers, Meijers, and so on. Ill provide a link below, so you can check first.

    http://www.legislature.mi.gov/%28S%2...e=mcl-750-234d

    http://www.legislature.mi.gov/%28S%2...e=mcl-750-231a

    http://www.michigan.gov/documents/ms...2_336854_7.pdf

    http://www2.dleg.state.mi.us/llist/

    If you have ANY questions, by all means, ask. We WILL help you. If you think its obvious, or stupid, ask anyhow.

    You might want to find someone in your area to meet with, and show you the ropes, so to speak.
    Last edited by stainless1911; 07-08-2011 at 03:56 PM.

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    Regular Member HKcarrier's Avatar
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    YOu should get one of these... . http://www.gunvault.com/handgun-safe...vault-300.html the 300 or the 200...

    YOu can strap it under the back seat of your truck if you have an extended cab...

    You must have the gun under lock and key if it is inside the vehicle. If the vehicle has a trunk, you MUST have the pistol in teh trunk.

    PLaces like speedway have blanket liquor licenses. Even if they don't sell beer there, you still cannot be on the premises. Even in the parking lot. Even in transport mode.


    OC without a CPL is a pain. I have been doing it for a few months but it's hard.

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    Get a digital voice recorder with USB.

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    Thanks for the help guys, I plan on taking my cpl class at the end of the month. I have a few L.P. police officer friends i will ask if they understand the oc laws and see if they give people **** for it or not.

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    Never ask a cop for legal advice. Nothing against cops, at all, but all too frequently, they are wrong.

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    This was just posted over on MGO, makes my point beautifully.


    Quote: cantpickone

    It was only about a year ago that I heard Wayne Co Sheriff Benny Napoleon on WCHB taking questions from listeners that were calling in live.
    A caller asked a question related to open carry. Sheriff Napoleon had obviously never even heard of open carry and addressed the caller in an arrogant tone as though the caller was a big dummy.
    He said that Michigan has a concealed carry law and concealed means concealed. He said that open carry is and always was illegal and a felony in Michigan.
    If the Sheriff of the most populous County in Michigan is this ignorant about open carry, it goes to show how far the open carry movement has to go in educating the general public.
    I'm sure that many citizens still believe that seeing someone in possession of a gun other than when hunting is a reason to call the police and would expect a swat team to show up.
    Through contacts such as the one in this thread, police officers will gradually learn that open carry is not either a crime or a reason to dispatch police to the scene.
    I don't open carry, but I support the efforts of those that are doing so responsibly to desensitize to public.

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    Im not going to ask my cop friends for advice, just going to ask if they know it is legal and spred the word aroud the ranks not to hastle people who legally oc in legal areas.

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    Ok. Bring MSP # 86 with you when you do. Its one of the links I gave you.

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    Regular Member Bronson's Avatar
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    From the OCDO forum rules:

    (5) CITE TO AUTHORITY: If you state a rule of law, it is incumbent upon you to try to cite, as best you can, to authority. Citing to authority, using links when available,is what makes OCDO so successful. An authority is a published source of law that can back your claim up - statute, ordinance, court case, newspaper article covering a legal issue, etc.
    And here's why....

    Quote Originally Posted by xmanhockey7 View Post
    To transport without a CPL you must put the gun in a case designed for a pistol in the truck of your car unless you have a pickup then it can be in the glove compartment or any other part that is not accessible to you. And the gun must be seperate from the ammo when you do it.
    Quote Originally Posted by HKcarrier View Post
    You must have the gun under lock and key if it is inside the vehicle. If the vehicle has a trunk, you MUST have the pistol in teh trunk.
    Here're the links to the actual laws regarding the subject.

    MCL 750.227

    Sec. 227.

    . . .

    (2) A person shall not carry a pistol concealed on or about his or her person, or, whether concealed or otherwise, in a vehicle operated or occupied by the person, except in his or her dwelling house, place of business, or on other land possessed by the person, without a license to carry the pistol as provided by law and if licensed, shall not carry the pistol in a place or manner inconsistent with any restrictions upon such license.

    MCL 750.231a which lists exemptions for .227 quoted above.

    (1) Subsection (2) of section 227 does not apply to any of the following:

    (a) To a person holding a valid license to carry a pistol concealed upon his or her person issued by his or her state of residence except where the pistol is carried in nonconformance with a restriction appearing on the license.

    . . .

    (d) To a person while transporting a pistol for a lawful purpose that is licensed by the owner or occupant of the motor vehicle in compliance with section 2 of 1927 PA 372, MCL 28.422, and the pistol is unloaded in a closed case designed for the storage of firearms in the trunk of the vehicle.

    (e) To a person while transporting a pistol for a lawful purpose that is licensed by the owner or occupant of the motor vehicle in compliance with section 2 of 1927 PA 372, MCL 28.422, and the pistol is unloaded in a closed case designed for the storage of firearms in a vehicle that does not have a trunk and is not readily accessible to the occupants of the vehicle.
    The only time MI law requires the ammo to be separate and the gun to be in a locked container is when a CPL holder is securing their firearm because they are going to imbibe alcohol.

    MCL 28.519

    Sec. 9.

    (2) A certificate holder shall not carry a concealed firearm while he or she is under the influence of alcoholic liquor or a controlled substance or while having a bodily alcohol content prohibited under this section. A person who violates this section is responsible for a state civil infraction or is guilty of a crime as follows:

    . . .

    (3) This section does not prohibit an individual certified under this act to carry a concealed firearm who has any bodily alcohol content from transporting that firearm in the locked trunk of his or her motor vehicle or another motor vehicle in which he or she is a passenger or, if the vehicle does not have a trunk, from transporting that firearm unloaded in a locked compartment or container that is separated from the ammunition for that firearm or on a vessel if the firearm is transported unloaded in a locked compartment or container that is separated from the ammunition for that firearm.
    Clear as concrete isn't it?

    Bronson
    Those who expect to reap the benefits of freedom, must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it. Thomas Paine

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    Regular Member HKcarrier's Avatar
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    It should be in a locked box regardless of what the law says. If you don't take steps to ensure that a reasonable person would think of it as inaccessible to the people in the vehicle then you could get jammed up. It should be in a locked box designed for storage of a gun... if it's not, it could EASILY be argued that it was 'readily available'.


    and the OP already knew it had to be seperate from teh ammo... so what's wrong with what I said besides I didn't post the link to teh cite?
    Last edited by HKcarrier; 07-09-2011 at 10:42 AM.

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    If the law doesnt say so, you should make a disclaimer. A minor misstep, no biggie. Its just that we dont want to mislead someone.

    You are right though, the gun should be locked if you have no trunk, not by law, but to add to your credibility and defense. I knew what you meant.

    When I was transporting this way, I used a small safe, and kept it locked. The safe was also tethered by a cable, tied to the frame of the car.

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    Regular Member Bronson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HKcarrier View Post
    and the OP already knew it had to be seperate from teh ammo...
    No, it doesn't.

    Quote Originally Posted by HKcarrier View Post
    so what's wrong with what I said besides I didn't post the link to teh cite?
    This...

    You must have the gun under lock and key if it is inside the vehicle.
    A statement like this misrepresents what the law says.

    Bronson
    Those who expect to reap the benefits of freedom, must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it. Thomas Paine

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    mjudd, as Bronson points out, your best bet is to read the actual MCL to determine the law. No matter how well intentioned a poster might be, when it comes to firearms law, you better verify the information. The law clearly says "unloaded"; it does not say "separated". A big "Thank-you" to Bronson for providing citations.

    Also, another poster has once pointed out that you should completely remove the pistol case from the trunk before loading and holstering or before unholstering, unloading, and encasing. This way, no one can say they say you remove the pistol from inside the vehicle nor saw you place it inside the vehicle. This observation might infer that the pistol was inside the vehicle and not encased at some point in time.
    Last edited by CoonDog; 07-09-2011 at 07:46 PM.

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    That is correct, one time, some busybody called on me, and the trooper specifically asked me if I had uncased the pistol outside the car. The caller had told dispatch that I was outside and then loaded the weapon.

    I had the audio at one time, but the computer crashed, and I lost the copy. I accidentally deleted the youtube video as well.

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    Regular Member xmanhockey7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stainless1911 View Post
    That is correct, one time, some busybody called on me, and the trooper specifically asked me if I had uncased the pistol outside the car. The caller had told dispatch that I was outside and then loaded the weapon.

    I had the audio at one time, but the comptuter crashed, and I lost the copy. I accidentally deleted the youtube video as well.
    That's y I try to park in a spot people won't see me grabbing a gun out of the back of my truck and loading it up. Mot always possible.
    "No state shall convert a liberty to a privilege, license it, and charge a fee therefor.- Murdock vs Pennsylvania 319 US 105

    ...If the state converts a right into a privelege, the citizen can ignore the license and fee and engage in the right... with impunity.
    - Shuttleworth vs City of Birmingham, Alabama 317 US 262

    Where rights secured by the Constitution are involved, there can be no legislation which would abrogate them.
    - Miranda vs Arizona 384 US 436

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    yep, good SA training for when your CPL comes in.

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    Regular Member HKcarrier's Avatar
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    To me, unloaded and ammo seperate from the gun are one and the same. Unloaded. No bullets in gun. Ammo is seperated from pistol. Stop acting as if I am telling the guy it's ok to OK w/o CPL in some place.


    OP, WHAT I SAID MAY NOT BE THE EXACT LAW BUT IT IS GOOD ADVICE THAT WILL HELP AVOID TROUBLE. Slap it in an unlocked case under the back seat of your truck and have the mag in the same case next to the gun and see what the cop says when you say bbbbut the law says!!!


    The law says: is not readily accessible to the occupants of the vehicle. That is EXTREMELY open to interpretation by the judge, so if you listen to Bronson and go exactly by the law, you very well may find your butt in HOT water.

    Lock it up if you don't have a trunk. Cover your butt. Go the extra mile.
    Last edited by HKcarrier; 07-10-2011 at 12:00 AM.

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    Regular Member Bronson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HKcarrier View Post
    To me, unloaded and ammo seperate from the gun are one and the same. Unloaded. No bullets in gun. Ammo is seperated from pistol. Stop acting as if I am telling the guy it's ok to OK w/o CPL in some place.


    OP, WHAT I SAID MAY NOT BE THE EXACT LAW BUT IT IS GOOD ADVICE THAT WILL HELP AVOID TROUBLE. Slap it in an unlocked case under the back seat of your truck and have the mag in the same case next to the gun and see what the cop says when you say bbbbut the law says!!!


    The law says: is not readily accessible to the occupants of the vehicle. That is EXTREMELY open to interpretation by the judge, so if you listen to Bronson and go exactly by the law, you very well may find your butt in HOT water.

    Lock it up if you don't have a trunk. Cover your butt. Go the extra mile.
    Why so angry? I merely pointed out what the law actually says. As it happens I agree with you but separating the ammo from the gun and locking it in a case (if you don't have a trunk) is not required by law and is only my opinion as to how I would approach that situation.

    Bronson
    Those who expect to reap the benefits of freedom, must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it. Thomas Paine

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    Regular Member HKcarrier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bronson View Post
    Why so angry? I merely pointed out what the law actually says. As it happens I agree with you but separating the ammo from the gun and locking it in a case (if you don't have a trunk) is not required by law and is only my opinion as to how I would approach that situation.

    Bronson


    No anger... text doesn't translate well... but just matter-of-fact.... And I understand the principle of you correcting me.

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    Regular Member Bronson's Avatar
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    Yeah....group hug

    Bronson
    Those who expect to reap the benefits of freedom, must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it. Thomas Paine

  23. #23
    Regular Member HKcarrier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bronson View Post
    Yeah....group hug

    Bronson




    whoa...






    hehe... just wanted a chance to use that pic.
    Last edited by HKcarrier; 07-11-2011 at 09:14 PM.

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    Regular Member Bronson's Avatar
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    That is a most excellent picture.

    Bronson
    Those who expect to reap the benefits of freedom, must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it. Thomas Paine

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    Regular Member Bikenut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HKcarrier View Post
    whoa...






    hehe... just wanted a chance to use that pic.
    "Wait officer! I'm just exercising my right to bear claws!"
    Gun control isn't about the gun at all.... for those who want gun control it is all about their own fragile egos, their own lack of self esteem, their own inner fears, and most importantly... their own desire to dominate others. And an openly carried gun is a slap in the face to all of those things.

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