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Thread: Emancipated minors and firearms in Virginia

  1. #1
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    Emancipated minors and firearms in Virginia

    Hello, I will hopefully have the blessing of the court and become an emancipated minor very soon. I have several questions regarding my second amendment rights.

    1. Can a buy a firearm? My parents won't let me own a firearm(though they let me rent them, odd isn't it) can emancipation change that. If I was to receive one as a gift from someone aside from my parent, would I be able to legally carry it?

    2. In the event that I can't own a handgun, can I carry(openly obviously) a long gun? Is there a barrel length limit that would make carrying a long gun absurdly un-ergonomic?

    3. Can I open carry?

    4. As an emancipated minor, will I be allowed to attend most self defense classes?

    5. Can I open carry on the VCU campus? If not, what defines "campus"? Can I carry outside of the building on the sidewalk?

    6. Can I own a firearm and keep it in a dorm room?

    7. If I indeed cannot own a firearm, has there been a supreme court ruling I can reference or would I have to sue the state myself?

    Thanks all,

    Andrew

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    Quote Originally Posted by aoc View Post
    Hello, I will hopefully have the blessing of the court and become an emancipated minor very soon. I have several questions regarding my second amendment rights.

    1. Can a buy a firearm? My parents won't let me own a firearm(though they let me rent them, odd isn't it) can emancipation change that. If I was to receive one as a gift from someone aside from my parent, would I be able to legally carry it?

    2. In the event that I can't own a handgun, can I carry(openly obviously) a long gun? Is there a barrel length limit that would make carrying a long gun absurdly un-ergonomic?

    3. Can I open carry?

    4. As an emancipated minor, will I be allowed to attend most self defense classes?

    5. Can I open carry on the VCU campus? If not, what defines "campus"? Can I carry outside of the building on the sidewalk?

    6. Can I own a firearm and keep it in a dorm room?

    7. If I indeed cannot own a firearm, has there been a supreme court ruling I can reference or would I have to sue the state myself?

    Thanks all,

    Andrew
    1. Don't think so, no exemption in code: http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp...cod+18.2-308.7

    1a. Receive as gift? Might be considered a straw purchase, I could be wrong though.

    2. Think previous code link would still apply.

    3. Only on your property per previous code.

    4. Don't see why not.

    5. VCU- Definitely NO!

    6. Probably not, again code from Item 1 not to mention most college policies.

    7. Still looking......

    I reserve the right to be wrong and put in my place by other more knowledgable members of this site.

  3. #3
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    You can own a gun, but you can't buy one. Nor can you be in possession of a handgun without adult supervision until you reach eighteen. (There's a difference between title to a thing and being in possession of that thing.)

    There is no court opinion on your side. You can sue the state, and I can think of some reasonable bases for such a case, such that you and I would avoid being hit with sanctions for having filed a frivolous lawsuit, but I can pretty much guarantee that one's a loser.

    You can, and should, attend self defense courses in the meanwhile.

    I've never considered the possibility of openly carrying a long gun for defense. Tell you the truth, that's "work", and for the cost of a couple hours' research, I'll write you up an opinion on it.
    Last edited by user; 07-09-2011 at 07:01 AM.
    Daniel L. Hawes - 540 347 2430 - HTTP://www.VirginiaLegalDefense.com

    By the way, nothing I say on this website as "user" should be taken as either advertising for attorney services or legal advice, merely personal opinion. Everyone having a question regarding the application of law to the facts of their situation should seek the advice of an attorney competent in the subject matter of the issues presented and licensed to practice in the relevant state.

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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Welcome to OCDO. It's quite refreshing to see the younger folks taking an interest in their future the way you are.

    This is what you get by being emancipated - and nothing more.

    http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp...0+cod+16.1-334
    § 16.1-334. Effects of order.

    An order that a minor is emancipated shall have the following effects:

    1. The minor may consent to medical, dental, or psychiatric care, without parental consent, knowledge, or liability;

    2. The minor may enter into a binding contract or execute a will;

    3. The minor may sue and be sued in his own name;

    4. The minor shall be entitled to his own earnings and shall be free of control by his parents or guardian;

    5. The minor may establish his own residence;

    6. The minor may buy and sell real property;

    7. The minor may not thereafter be the subject of a petition under this chapter as abused, neglected, abandoned, in need of services, in need of supervision, or in violation of a juvenile curfew ordinance enacted by a local governing body;

    8. The minor may enroll in any school or college, without parental consent;

    9. The minor may secure a driver's license under § 46.2-334 or § 46.2-335 without parental consent;

    10. The parents of the minor shall no longer be the guardians of the minor;

    11. The parents of a minor shall be relieved of any obligations respecting his school attendance under Article 1 (§ 22.1-254 et seq.) of Chapter 14 of Title 22.1;

    12. The parents shall be relieved of all obligation to support the minor;

    13. The minor shall be emancipated for the purposes of parental liability for his acts;

    14. The minor may execute releases in his own name;

    15. The minor may not have a guardian ad litem appointed for him pursuant to any statute solely because he is under age eighteen; and

    16. The minor may marry without parental, judicial, or other consent.

    The acts done when such order is or is purported to be in effect shall be valid notwithstanding any subsequent action terminating such order or a judicial determination that the order was void ab initio.

    (1986, c. 506; 1990, c. 568; 1993, c. 778.)
    No voting early, no buying booze early, and no firearms without strict adherence to all the laws. That includes having to follow the rule about no firearms in VCU dorms.

    It sort of sucks to be on your own and not be able to do all the sdult things, but still have to suffer the adult consequences of any screw-up you may commit. On the positive side I knew many kids who were emancipated (helped them gain that status) and they all turned out fine or better.

    If you are of a mind, come to one of the OC dinners in your neck of the woods. You will probably make some friends, may even find a mentor if you want one, and will get a chance to sit at the big-people's table. Oh! And join VCDL www.vcdl.org .

    stay safe.

  5. #5
    Regular Member ProShooter's Avatar
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    As far as any training classes go, we would be happy to have you in class.
    James Reynolds

    NRA Certified Firearms Instructor - Pistol, Shotgun, Home Firearms Safety, Refuse To Be A Victim
    Concealed Firearms Instructor for Virginia, Florida & Utah permits.
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    Instructor Bio - http://proactiveshooters.com/about-us/

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    Okay, thanks for the input guys. Another thought came to mind, today(I am not yet emancipated) can I open carry now? I like to fish at night, but am not willing to fish in certian areas at night unarmed. If I talked my parents into letting me would it be legal? If so, a long gun handgun or both?

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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aoc View Post
    Okay, thanks for the input guys. Another thought came to mind, today(I am not yet emancipated) can I open carry now? I like to fish at night, but am not willing to fish in certian areas at night unarmed. If I talked my parents into letting me would it be legal? If so, a long gun handgun or both?
    You are referred to the information already provided. Until you reach your 18th birthday you will be required to be under adult supervision when open-carrying, and will need to be 21 and have a valid CHP if you want to carry discretely.

    There is no question your life will suck while you are legally neither fish nor fowl. But there is little you can do about it except 1) see if you can get the laws changed so that additional adult rights are granted to emancipated minors, and 2) see if you can form a relationship with a legal adult (I really do hate to keep rubbing that term in your face) who is willing to provide the supervision the current laws require be provided to you when you handle firearms.

    Once you are emancipated the folks who biologically created you will have no legal influence on you or your activities. They will not legally be able to either permit nor deny you permission to do anything or not do anything. However, as you are so painfully finding out, the government (who knows what's best for you in your tender years) still will not let you assume the role of a real adult - you will be playing pretend-adult until your 18th birthday.

    stay safe.

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    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    You are referred to the information already provided. Until you reach your 18th birthday you will be required to be under adult supervision when open-carrying, and will need to be 21 and have a valid CHP if you want to carry discretely.

    There is no question your life will suck while you are legally neither fish nor fowl. But there is little you can do about it except 1) see if you can get the laws changed so that additional adult rights are granted to emancipated minors, and 2) see if you can form a relationship with a legal adult (I really do hate to keep rubbing that term in your face) who is willing to provide the supervision the current laws require be provided to you when you handle firearms.

    Once you are emancipated the folks who biologically created you will have no legal influence on you or your activities. They will not legally be able to either permit nor deny you permission to do anything or not do anything. However, as you are so painfully finding out, the government (who knows what's best for you in your tender years) still will not let you assume the role of a real adult - you will be playing pretend-adult until your 18th birthday.

    stay safe.


    What law states that?

  9. #9
    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aoc View Post
    What law states that?
    <not using my sarcastic voice> Which "what" in particular are you inquiring about?

    Could it possibly be one of the various ones already cited by me or any of the others who have cited portions of the Code of Virginia?

    stay safe.

  10. #10
    Regular Member JamesB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    ... the government (who knows what's best for you in your tender years) still will not let you assume the role of a real adult - you will be playing pretend-adult until your 18th birthday.

    stay safe.
    Except of course for the phrase "... will be Tried as an Adult."

    Something to keep in mind.

  11. #11
    Regular Member Thundar's Avatar
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    I am not a lawyer

    Read and try to understand what a handgun is under both federal and Commonwealth law:

    TITLE 18, UNITED STATE CODE, § 921 Definitions.

    (3) The term "firearm" means (A) any weapon (including a starter gun) which will or is designed to or may readily be converted to expel a projectile by the action of an explosive; (B) the frame or receiver of any such weapon; (C) any firearm muffler or firearm silencer; or (D) any destructive device. Such term does not include an antique firearm.

    (16) The term "antique firearm" means—
    (A) any firearm (including any firearm with a matchlock, flintlock, percussion cap, or similar type of ignition system) manufactured in or before 1898; or
    (B) any replica of any firearm described in subparagraph (A) if such replica—
    (i) is not designed or redesigned for using rimfire or conventional centerfire fixed ammunition, or
    (ii) uses rimfire or conventional centerfire fixed ammunition which is no longer manufactured in the
    United States and which is not readily available in the ordinary channels of commercial trade; or
    (C) any muzzle loading rifle, muzzle loading shotgun, or muzzle loading pistol, which is designed to use black powder, or a black powder substitute, and which cannot use fixed ammunition. For purposes of this subparagraph, the term "antique firearm" shall not include any weapon which incorporates a firearm frame or receiver, any firearm which is converted into a muzzle loading weapon, or any muzzle loading weapon which can be readily converted to fire fixed ammunition by replacing the barrel, bolt, breechblock, or any combination thereof.

    (29) The term "handgun" means—
    (A) a firearm which has a short stock and is designed to be held and fired by the use of a single hand; and (B) any combination of parts from which a firearm described in subparagraph (A) can be assembled.

    Code of Virginia § 18.2-308.7. Possession or transportation of certain firearms by persons under the age of 18; penalty.

    It shall be unlawful for any person under 18 years of age to knowingly and intentionally possess or transport a handgun or assault firearm anywhere in the Commonwealth. For the purposes of this section, "handgun" means any pistol or revolver or other firearm originally designed, made and intended to fire single or multiple projectiles by means of an explosion of a combustible material from one or more barrels when held in one hand and "assault firearm" means any (i) semi-automatic centerfire rifle or pistol which expels single or multiple projectiles by action of an explosion of a combustible material and is equipped at the time of the offense with a magazine which will hold more than 20 rounds of ammunition or designed by the manufacturer to accommodate a silencer or equipped with a folding stock or (ii) shotgun with a magazine which will hold more than seven rounds of the longest ammunition for which it is chambered. A violation of this section shall be a Class 1 misdemeanor.

    This section shall not apply to:

    1. Any person (i) while in his home or on his property; (ii) while in the home or on the property of his parent, grandparent, or legal guardian; or (iii) while on the property of another who has provided prior permission, and with the prior permission of his parent or legal guardian if the person has the landowner's written permission on his person while on such property;

    2. Any person who, while accompanied by an adult, is at, or going to and from, a lawful shooting range or firearms educational class, provided that the weapons are unloaded while being transported;

    3. Any person actually engaged in lawful hunting or going to and from a hunting area or preserve, provided that the weapons are unloaded while being transported; and

    4. Any person while carrying out his duties in the Armed Forces of the United States or the National Guard of this Commonwealth or any other state.

    ------------
    So if I were you, I would ask competent firearms lawyer if I could posessan antique firearm or replica thereof under federal law, and whether a dorm is considered your home or property as part of exception 1 to Code of Virginia § 18.2-308.7. I would ask these questions because one of my favorite guns is my replica 1861 Navy revolver and I would really want to keep it in my dorm room, but only if I could do it legally.
    He wore his gun outside his pants for all the honest world to see. Pancho & Lefty

    The millions of people, armed in the holy cause of liberty, and in such a country as that which we possess, are invincible by any force which our enemy can send against us....There is no retreat but in submission and slavery! ...The war is inevitable–and let it come! I repeat it, Sir, let it come …………. PATRICK HENRY speech 1776

  12. #12
    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thundar View Post
    I am not a lawyer

    But you are a lawyer - it's an attorney that you are not.

    ------------
    So if I were you, I would ask competent firearms lawyer if I could posessan antique firearm or replica thereof under federal law, and whether a dorm is considered your home or property as part of exception 1 to Code of Virginia § 18.2-308.7. I would ask these questions because one of my favorite guns is my replica 1861 Navy revolver and I would really want to keep it in my dorm room, but only if I could do it legally.
    This has been hashed out both here and in the courts. There is no need to bother an attorney and throw money away paying for information you can get for free.

    No, a university/college dorm room is not considered your home or property as discussed in exception #1 to 18.2-308.7. It will not do you any good to argue that you can, for census purposes, claim the locality of the university/college as both your domocile and your residence.

    And even if, for the sake of argument, it were eligible for exception #1, the rules of the university/college would allow them to kick you out of student housing as well as to expell you from enrollment as a student.

    "The Law" is not a collection of separate and distinct pieces, but a connected patchwork of concepts making a rather ratty entity with many holes or places where things might drop through. You cannot find the one statute, or exception within a statute, that supports the outcome you want and sucessfully claim "See, the law says I can!" Go look at any appelate pleading and you will see a whole bunch of laws cited as authorities - that is so that the court can be persuaded that there is ore law saying what you want is "The Law" than there might be saying "No it aint!".

    stay safe.
    Last edited by skidmark; 07-11-2011 at 04:38 PM. Reason: typo

  13. #13
    Regular Member Thundar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    This has been hashed out both here and in the courts. There is no need to bother an attorney and throw money away paying for information you can get for free.

    No, a university/college dorm room is not considered your home or property as discussed in exception #1 to 18.2-308.7. It will not do you any good to argue that you can, for census purposes, claim the locality of the university/college as both your domocile and your residence.


    stay safe.
    So ask the attorney if you can keep a replica cap and ball gun in a private residence that you rent.
    Last edited by Thundar; 07-13-2011 at 04:54 PM.
    He wore his gun outside his pants for all the honest world to see. Pancho & Lefty

    The millions of people, armed in the holy cause of liberty, and in such a country as that which we possess, are invincible by any force which our enemy can send against us....There is no retreat but in submission and slavery! ...The war is inevitable–and let it come! I repeat it, Sir, let it come …………. PATRICK HENRY speech 1776

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