They're on to us...

Wisconsin State Journal today mentions the MD online training, and as to whether it qualifies as sufficent training.
Now, technically, we know it does, but you can bet there will now be a fuss raised now that it's been in the press.

sore losers ! oh well, there is NOTHING that the worthless commie boo hoo cry libs can do about it right now. HA HA HA HA HA

I read that too in several places, all brought out yesterday AFTER the signing.
I also read the additional spin put on it saying basically that the DOJ will have to review this more closely to see if it is a valid form of training.

HA - The MD training meets EVERY single of the NOW law. They can try to do what ever they like, it is now LAW and the wording CANNOT be changed. Any denials based on the MD training will be appealed and WON because the law states "Training by a police department available to the public", there is no way around it no matter how hard they try, its in plain english black and white. Compared to the lame hunters safety, the MD training is much more informative.

Soooo tough twinkies to the whiners.

................Confident Po-lock

I'm wondering if...

rcav8r said:

Wisconsin State Journal today mentions the MD online training, and as to whether it qualifies as sufficent training.
Now, technically, we know it does, but you can bet there will now be a fuss raised now that it's been in the press.

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being in the MD data bank prior to the law going into effect will allow for a pass? Grandfather In, so to speak.

Da Po-lock said:

I read that too in several places, all brought out yesterday AFTER the signing.
I also read the additional spin put on it saying basically that the DOJ will have to review this more closely to see if it is a valid form of training.

HA - The MD training meets EVERY single of the NOW law. They can try to do what ever they like, it is now LAW and the wording CANNOT be changed. Any denials based on the MD training will be appealed and WON because the law states "Training by a police department available to the public", there is no way around it no matter how hard they try, its in plain english balck and white. Compared to the lame hunters safety, the MD training is much more informative.

Soooo tough twinkies to the whiners.

................Confident Po-lock

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yuppers !!

We may have shot ourselves in the foot on this one. It would not surprise me to see the MD police shut down the training site to all but MD residents. I'm sure the MD police do not want to get involved in our fracas. Don'tknow what that will do to those of us that have already taken the course and received a certificate.

Wild Boar, Can You Explain Your "Signature" Line Please?

wild boar said:

being in the MD data bank prior to the law going into effect will allow for a pass? Grandfather In, so to speak.

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I just noticed your signature line. Could you explain it please?

Captain Nemo said:

We may have shot ourselves in the foot on this one. It would not surprise me to see the MD police shut down the training site to all but MD residents. I'm sure the MD police do not want to get involved in our fracas. Don'tknow what that will do to those of us that have already taken the course and received a certificate.

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Well, those who completed the training have the certificate in hand and it cannot be "voided" so to speak. The training we have is dated on the certificate itself before the signing yesterday so it will be completely valid for training. Hopefully everyone saved the PDF of the training also. Anyone completing this training in the future will still get the certificate. The law does not state training before the bill was signed into law would not be valid, if it did, thousands of dollars already spent would be out the window for hundreds of people and no previous form of training would be valid after yesterday.

As for shutting down the site, I seriously doubt that. What do they care what happens here. They could possibly make someone log in with some form of MD ID but why would they spend any money of theirs on it?

When the driver's license is entered on the form all they would have to do is reject all that do not have a MD prefix. Simple software change. Essentially no cost to them. I hope they don't do that but they have already been contacted on the issue by the media and say that the intent of the web site was for MD residents only. I hope the question just goes away. I also don't see how the Wisconsin DoJ can say the MD training isn't valid but Wisconsin politics is Wisconsin politics. Unfortunately SB93 chartered the Wisconsin DoJ to generate a set of rules.

Everybody keep your eyes on this one and get ready to make noise.

Captain Nemo said:

We may have shot ourselves in the foot on this one. It would not surprise me to see the MD police shut down the training site to all but MD residents. I'm sure the MD police do not want to get involved in our fracas. Don'tknow what that will do to those of us that have already taken the course and received a certificate.

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That is exactly what I believe will happen. The MD online training was specifically set up for MD residents (for firearm ownership, I believe).

The NRA may make sure of that, as it steals dollars from their trainers.

Captain Nemo said:

When the driver's license is entered on the form all they would have to do is reject all that do not have a MD prefix. Simple software change. Essentially no cost to them. I hope they don't do that but they have already been contacted on the issue by the media and say that the intent of the web site was for MD residents only. I hope the question just goes away. I also don't see how the Wisconsin DoJ can say the MD training isn't valid but Wisconsin politics is Wisconsin politics. Unfortunately SB93 chartered the Wisconsin DoJ to generate a set of rules.

Everybody keep your eyes on this one and get ready to make noise.

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Maybe the WI-DOJ will use the MD online training as a model and tailor it for WI. I thought there was another state that issues permits after the completion on online course.

Captain Nemo said:

When the driver's license is entered on the form all they would have to do is reject all that do not have a MD prefix.

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Except that you don't have to enter a DL#. Suppose they can change that, too. :uhoh:

the intent of the web site was for MD residents only.

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It doesn't say that; they may take steps to limit it in the future.

I also don't see how the Wisconsin DoJ can say the MD training isn't valid

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Esp. since MD residents, using that training, are going to be allowed to carry in WI.
If it's good enough for MD residents, who will be allowed to carry here, why isn't it good enough for WI residents?

It EXACTLY meets the letter of the law, being:
1) a firearms safety or training course
2) available to the public
3) offered by a law enforcement agency
[See 175.60(4)(1)(c), on page 8 of the bill.]

I've read laws from other states that mention something about an instructor (along with the same 1-2-3 phrasing as above), or "a course that the agency finds acceptable", or things like that. Our new law doesn't have any of that.
They made the law, we found something that exactly met their requirements, they'll have to live with it...
or change the law, in which case there will be quite the uproar.

(To stave off the inevitable debate, which has its own thread, about whether this is good & sufficient training to actually carry, no, of course it's not. But people should be able to choose training that works for them. More is better.)

MKEgal:

I am looking at a copy of my MD certificate #WEB82896 at this moment. My DL# is printed on it in red letters, beginning with the letters WI for Wisconsin.

The MD police were contacted by the media on the online course and did definitely state that the course was intended for MD residents only. That fact has been posted by other members also. I merely stated that the issue may cause them to limit the online training course in the future so that the MD police training unit does not get pulled into the fracas that may arise.

I agree that as the text in the new law is written there is no reason that the MD course does not qualify. As I also stated unfortunately the bill assigns the responsibility of the DoJ to publish a set of rules. It is hoped the DoJ doesn't play games with us but all they need do is publish a rule that says "Only courses conducted by Law Enforcement Agencies operating in the State of Wisconsin satisfy the firearm training requirements of s175.60". That rule technically meets the letter of the law although not the intent of the law. That is why I said we must keep our eyes open until Nov 1. I am concerned that now that the CC carry privilege is in effect that many will back off and let our guard down.

This whole deal reminds me of the phrase "freedom isn't a loophole".

Step one of three for registration is RESIDENCY...and they let you register as an out of state resident.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

and my 10 year old daughter satisfactorily complteted the MD Online Safety Course without a driver's licences number, she printed her certificate, signed it and mailed the other 1/2 back to MD along with mine. Why would it not be valid?

The best point I've heard so far about this is

MKEgal said:

[...]
If it's good enough for MD residents, who will be allowed to carry here, why isn't it good enough for WI residents?[...]

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this is the crappy after-effect of "what can happen" when a right is turned into a privilege. It's now open for interpretation.... I can't wait until the left is running the state government again [sarcasm] ~ $50 permits will be a thing of the past.

Captain Nemo said:

I am looking at a copy of my MD certificate #WEB82896 at this moment. My DL# is printed on it in red letters, beginning with the letters WI for Wisconsin.

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Because you chose to put in your DL# when you registered.
I chose not to, so my certificate says "S123456789".
But my address is correct, and if their system was supposed to reject OOS students, it could.
And as someone else pointed out, his 10yo obviously doesn't have a DL.

sb93 COULDVE been written in such a way that the DOJ wouldve had latitude to determine what constitutes 'proper training'....that didnt happen...I think the antis were so set on 'mandated training' that allowing the DOJ any flexibility may not have been good enough for them...so, now, here we sit...LOL...with the MD training online...

GlockRDH said:

sb93 COULDVE been written in such a way that the DOJ wouldve had latitude to determine what constitutes 'proper training'....that didnt happen...I think the antis were so set on 'mandated training' that allowing the DOJ any flexibility may not have been good enough for them...so, now, here we sit...LOL...with the MD training online...

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As I said in another thread. I have talked to several people in the Capital building and they said they were trying to write the legislation as tight as possible so that there was little leeway in regulations so that, for example, an anti 2A AG gets elected so they can't make up their own rules.

That is why there is such language as 'no effect on open carry' and 'not too exceed' and spells out specifically which out of state permits will be recognized as well as 'live fire is not required'. They could of been vague and allowed DOJ to write rules but they didn't.

paul@paul-fisher.com said:

As I said in another thread. I have talked to several people in the Capital building and they said they were trying to write the legislation as tight as possible so that there was little leeway in regulations so that, for example, an anti 2A AG gets elected so they can't make up their own rules.

That is why there is such language as 'no effect on open carry' and 'not too exceed' and spells out specifically which out of state permits will be recognized as well as 'live fire is not required'. They could of been vague and allowed DOJ to write rules but they didn't.

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and i like it like this!