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Thread: OT - 5th Wheel / Travel Trailer "Homestead" in WA

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    OT - 5th Wheel / Travel Trailer "Homestead" in WA

    Hey everyone. I need some help with this one. I want to buy a used 5th wheel or travel trailer and also purchase between 5 and 20 acres to put it on and start a little homestead. Is this legal in the state as a whole? Specific counties would be: Spokane, Lincoln, Stevens, Adams, Pend Oreille, Whitman and Ferry.

    Mortgage free, dept free, growing, raising, and hunting most of my food. All by the time I'm 25. Yes please! Hopefully my fellow freedom lovers and OCers will "get" this idea more than other places I've mentioned it. Freedom of this magnitude is such a wonderful thought to me.

    I have searched low and high for anything prohibiting this and have found nothing. Most of my searching has been in Spokane County laws / zoning / codes as I figured them to be the most restrictive of the bunch. There is a mind boggling amount of red tape of anything permanent, but not temporary and movable like a 5th wheel or trailer.

    Does anyone have some insight for me?
    Last edited by XD45ZX10R; 07-09-2011 at 07:31 PM.

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    Regular Member amlevin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by XD45ZX10R View Post
    Hey everyone. I need some help with this one. I want to buy a used 5th wheel or travel trailer and also purchase between 5 and 20 acres to put it on and start a little homestead. Is this legal in the state as a whole? Specific counties would be: Spokane, Lincoln, Stevens, Adams, Pend Oreille, Whitman and Ferry.

    Mortgage free, dept free, growing, raising, and hunting most of my food. All by the time I'm 25. Yes please! Hopefully my fellow freedom lovers and OCers will "get" this idea more than other places I've mentioned it. Freedom of this magnitude is such a wonderful thought to me.

    I have searched low and high for anything prohibiting this and have found nothing. Most of my searching has been in Spokane County laws / zoning / codes as I figured them to be the most restrictive of the bunch. There is a mind boggling amount of red tape of anything permanent, but not temporary and movable like a 5th wheel or trailer.

    Does anyone have some insight for me?
    You won't be totally "free" as the local County Government will have some say. Lots of people do this but the big bugaboo is "sewage disposal". They may require more than just a "pit" to discharge it into. If the area where you end up still allows Outhouses with no regulation, you're home free, otherwise you may have to put in either an underground holding tank or Septic Tank with drain field.

    Another issue will be water. There are also regulations regarding wells. You usually can put in a well for drinking water but "agricultural use" such as irrigation of a crop or livestock may require water rights.

    Lastly, you may not be allowed to use a Travel Trailer as a permanent residence unless it complies with various codes. Usually these cover the electrical systems.

    Here is the site that lists all City and County codes in WA State.

    http://www.mrsc.org/codes.aspx

    Find the county and do a search for Travel Trailers, RV's, etc. This will give you the "straight poop".
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    Thanks Amlevin

    Right now, the plan for sewage is a composting toilet. Homemade at first, but WA has a list of approved commercially produced composting toilets if push comes to shove. They start at $1k though. Pricey, but not more so than a septic system. Am I really going to have someone worrying about this kind of thing if I'm not even within view from any road?

    I will still be working full time for a bit so going into town will satisfy the water aspect. I can do laundry and shower at a friend or family members. I can even hold on to my $20/mo gym membership to shower. I will probably only eat 9 meals a week at my homestead and I cook using cast iron so it doesn't get washed with water anyways. When I save more money, I will decide whether I want to have a well dug or build a rainwater catchment system. This would necessitate a "carport" structure of some kind over the trailer, but that's already a plan anyways.

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    Regular Member hermannr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by XD45ZX10R View Post
    Hey everyone. I need some help with this one. I want to buy a used 5th wheel or travel trailer and also purchase between 5 and 20 acres to put it on and start a little homestead. Is this legal in the state as a whole? Specific counties would be: Spokane, Lincoln, Stevens, Adams, Pend Oreille, Whitman and Ferry.

    Mortgage free, dept free, growing, raising, and hunting most of my food. All by the time I'm 25. Yes please! Hopefully my fellow freedom lovers and OCers will "get" this idea more than other places I've mentioned it. Freedom of this magnitude is such a wonderful thought to me.

    I have searched low and high for anything prohibiting this and have found nothing. Most of my searching has been in Spokane County laws / zoning / codes as I figured them to be the most restrictive of the bunch. There is a mind boggling amount of red tape of anything permanent, but not temporary and movable like a 5th wheel or trailer.

    Does anyone have some insight for me?
    Welcome to the dry side! there are a lot of people over here doing as you wish. BTW: You missed Okanogan Co. in your list.

    Live in 5th wheel. Neighbor does. No need for a permit, it is "mobile" and less than 12 feet wide. May I suggest that you get one with lot's of tip-outs. Under 400 sqft for a garage/shed, no need for a permit, Outhouse is legal.

    So now the problems... if you want to be comfortable you really do need a well ($5k+) and a septic system ($5k+) If you end up building a house over 400 sqft you will have to get a permit and then they will want you to have proper water and septic before they issue the permit.

    The biggest problem with the well is finding where the water is. If you have to go 300 or 400 feet it could cost you a lot more than $5K. Septic systems are not much of a problem over here, water is the problem. You also may need a water softener if you end up with hard water. There are a lot of relatively inexpensive solar water pumps, so electricty isn't that important, unless it is to you.

    How far you will have to pull power will make a lot of difference in the price of the lot. If the lot already has water, if the ground is tillable and has irrigation. Up here in the Highlands there are a lot of 5-20 acre pieces, and some considerably larger. Treed lot, no water, no power, no septic 5-10 acres...about $15K-$30K. 20 acres about $30K.

    If there is a good well you can add $10K+, if there is Power (transformer set) on the property you can add another $5K. Live year around water (creek/pond) you can add $5K + If you know an address in Okanogan County you can look the property up on the Okanogan county assessors web site. Maps arn't as good as Skagit Co's property web maps, but they do the job.

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    If absolutly nothing else you can always make a towable septic and water station.....Get 1 of the harbor freight 4x8 trailers and install 1 black water tank, 1 gray water tank, and 1 fresh water tank...strap all 3 on the trailer with the hook-ups on the tops and drains on the bottoms......When you go into town, you can dump your waste and refill your fresh water supply.....just dont confuse your tanks...

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    Okanogan is too far from work unfortunately. I live in Spokane now.

    I see plenty of property I'm interested in. Good prices with power to the property line.

    My searches are returning favorable results. Thanks for that link amlevin. It's very useful.

    Thats true chongo. I'm going to make this lifestyle happen and I relish the opportunity to rough it and make things work.
    Last edited by XD45ZX10R; 07-10-2011 at 02:32 AM.

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    I'm going to write what I'm finding for informative purposes. Thank you again for that link, amlevin. Monumentally helpful. I've got to say, I'm pretty happy and surprised with the lack of laws against this in the North Eastern part of the state. From earlier research, it seems easier to travel trailer homestead in Canada than much of the Eastern US.



    Cities:

    Airway Heights- Appears RVs cannot be occupied in a residential zone. No prohibitions elsewhere.

    Cheney- No Prohibitions.

    Chewelah- Don't put one in your front yard and you're good to go.

    Deer Park- No Prohibitions.

    Colville- RVs cannot be used as a permanent dwelling inside any zone in their "supplementary district", except for 4 weeks in a certain zone and up to 6 months in two other zones. I could not find what that district was or meant, nor could I spot it on their zoning map. My best guess is the former zone is a loosely populated residental and the latter are commercial. No rural prohibitions that I saw.

    Liberty Lake- No prohibitions.

    Ritzville- No prohibitions.

    Spokane City- Cant occupy anything used for recreational camping more than 14 days out of a calendar year. No big deal. The idea here is to get out of the city!

    Spokane Valley- "D. Recreational vehicles shall not be used as permanent or temporary dwelling units in any residential zone. Guests may park and/or occupy a recreational vehicle while visiting the occupants of a dwelling unit located on the same lot for not more than 30 days in one consecutive 12-month period. The intent is to accommodate visiting guests and not to allow the recreational vehicle to be used as a dwelling unit."



    Counties:

    Ferry County- No prohibitions.

    Lincoln County- "B. A recreational vehicle shall not be occupied continuously for more than thirty (30) days unless a permanent residence is under construction and in compliance with this code, health department and Title 16 and 17 requirements." Same remarks as Spokane County.

    Pend Orielle- No prohibitions outside of flood areas.

    Spokane County- "A recreational vehicle occupied continuously for more than thirty days shall meet the requirements for a manufactured home or commercial coach, as applicable, under this title, unless the same is being used for security purposes ancillary to a construction site." Pretty easy here. Sleep out side, visit someone in town for a night, or don't worry about it because no one will care or be able to tell where you slept on your own property or otherwise.

    Stevens County- I found nothing prohibiting an RV homestead. A lot of their documents are in old school PDF and unsearchable, but I am fairly certain that I thoroughly read anything applicable.

    Whitman County- Recreational vehicles have to be on site for 180 consecutive days to be considered a building. No chance of this one being noticed or a problem.

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    I sold a horse a while back to a guy who lives on the side of Mt Raineer. Aside from the obvious fact that he is living on a volcano, he had a pretty good set up. He has mountain spring on his property, and a steady stream of run off, that does not freeze up in the winter. He channels some of the run off through staggered diameter pipes that get smaller to increase pressure which turns a water wheel that generates power. He also has solar panels that charge a huge bank of batteries. He has a large man made trout pond right next to his huge garden. He also grows and makes hemp products that he sells on his online business. He has quite a setup that cost him near nothing, and makes him money. I myself would not live on the side of a mountain, but to each his own. He is happy not having to pay for anything, and he has a spectacular view.
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    Quote Originally Posted by amzbrady View Post
    I sold a horse a while back to a guy who lives on the side of Mt Raineer. Aside from the obvious fact that he is living on a volcano, he had a pretty good set up. He has mountain spring on his property, and a steady stream of run off, that does not freeze up in the winter. He channels some of the run off through staggered diameter pipes that get smaller to increase pressure which turns a water wheel that generates power. He also has solar panels that charge a huge bank of batteries. He has a large man made trout pond right next to his huge garden. He also grows and makes hemp products that he sells on his online business. He has quite a setup that cost him near nothing, and makes him money. I myself would not live on the side of a mountain, but to each his own. He is happy not having to pay for anything, and he has a spectacular view.

    That is incredibly cool. I love hearing those kinds of stories. Thank you for sharing!

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    Quote Originally Posted by XD45ZX10R View Post
    build a rainwater catchment system. This would necessitate a "carport" structure of some kind over the trailer, but that's already a plan anyways.
    There was some recent information on this from the State. Seems like they think they "own" the rain and you need a permit to collect it. They used the logic that any rain that fell effected the water in streams, rivers, lakes, and underground aquifers. Since they claim all non patented water rights for themselves, that means the rain is theirs too.

    That aside, I have a son who built such a system. He used one of those huge plastic septic tanks. Buried it below the frost line and routed all roof collection drains to it. Only thing you have to be careful of is contamination from bird crap. A chlorine treatment unit that uses simple household bleach is all that's necessary if you intend on drinking it.
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    That's what I gathered too, at first. Digging deeper you actually find state departments recommending and endorsing the practice:

    http://www.ecy.wa.gov/programs/wr/hq/rwh.html


    http://www.seattle.gov/util/Services...er_Harvesting/


    This is all I can find in the RCW that mentions rain water. It's odd that this exact citation is used at least half a dozen times and is used in as many titles, chapters, and sections.
    "(3) The rate a county may charge under this section for storm or surface water sewer systems or the portion of the rate allocable to the storm or surface water sewer system of combined sanitary sewage and storm or surface water sewer systems shall be reduced by a minimum of ten percent for any new or remodeled commercial building that utilizes a permissive rainwater harvesting system. Rainwater harvesting systems shall be properly sized to utilize the available roof surface of the building. The jurisdiction shall consider rate reductions in excess of ten percent dependent upon the amount of rainwater harvested."

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    Quote Originally Posted by hermannr View Post
    Welcome to the dry side! there are a lot of people over here doing as you wish. BTW: You missed Okanogan Co. in your list.

    ..... Outhouse is legal.
    Cite please....unless it is a port a potty, outhouses are not legal in WA. There are also new grey water regulations that allow for homeowner design from the dwelling as long as it remains under a certain (gallon) limit per day.

    http://www.doh.wa.gov/ehp/ts/ww/grey...ywater-rac.htm
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    Regular Member amlevin's Avatar
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    If Composting is a little slow, or it's too cold for the process to work there is always this option.

    Just bag all the waste and burn it in a "**** Burner". Just hope there are no neighbors downwind.

    All you need is a big 55 gallon drum, the burner unit out of an Oil Fired Furnace, some heating oil/diesel, and a little electricity for the burner unit. The flame will first dehydrate then incinerate all the waste matter.

    Lots of these are used at remote sites in Alaska where the ground is frozen and composting toilets are just "refrigerators" for the waste.

    Last edited by amlevin; 07-10-2011 at 11:40 AM.
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    sorry duplicate
    Last edited by hermannr; 07-10-2011 at 01:32 PM.

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    Regular Member hermannr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jt59 View Post
    Cite please....unless it is a port a potty, outhouses are not legal in WA. There are also new grey water regulations that allow for homeowner design from the dwelling as long as it remains under a certain (gallon) limit per day.

    http://www.doh.wa.gov/ehp/ts/ww/grey...ywater-rac.htm

    It would be appreciated is you were to give a link to the specific thing you were talking about? I am on dialup and it is difficult to search through a whole bunch of stuff to find exactly what you were referring to????

    So, but to where I live. Up on this mountain there are hundreds of outhouses. I have three of 4 ajoining properties that are not used as peminent residences (vacation only) that have out houses. One has both indoor bathroom, and an outhouse also. Some of these outhouses have been here for probably 40 years or more. One, I know was built 5years ago. Yes, the county knows it is there.

    Anyway, back to an outhouse...the original composting toilet don't you think????

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    Regular Member amlevin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hermannr View Post
    Anyway, back to an outhouse...the original composting toilet don't you think????
    Except that it doesn't keep waste products out of ground water. Sometimes people didn't give much thought to this. I had a neighbor when I was growing up that had his outhouse just 30 feet from his well, and uphill from it as well. I made it a point to never ask for a drink of water when visiting.
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    Regular Member hermannr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by amlevin View Post
    Except that it doesn't keep waste products out of ground water. Sometimes people didn't give much thought to this. I had a neighbor when I was growing up that had his outhouse just 30 feet from his well, and uphill from it as well. I made it a point to never ask for a drink of water when visiting.
    Even though My water comes from under 200' of solid rock, I would not like 30' from the outhouse either. The old outhouse hole here (outhouse has been removed, ever since outdoor plumbing was installed 25 years ago) is over 100 ft from the well head. If I remember correctly, 100' is considered minimum.

    BTW: There was no electricity up here until 1986, no land line telephone until 2001. There are still quite a few people that are not on the grid. Several of them are full timers
    Last edited by hermannr; 07-10-2011 at 01:41 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hermannr View Post
    It would be appreciated is you were to give a link to the specific thing you were talking about? I am on dialup and it is difficult to search through a whole bunch of stuff to find exactly what you were referring to????

    So, but to where I live. Up on this mountain there are hundreds of outhouses. I have three of 4 ajoining properties that are not used as peminent residences (vacation only) that have out houses. One has both indoor bathroom, and an outhouse also. Some of these outhouses have been here for probably 40 years or more. One, I know was built 5years ago. Yes, the county knows it is there.

    Anyway, back to an outhouse...the original composting toilet don't you think????
    Actually, I was asking you to cite the reference to state code that allows for outhouses in your comment.

    The state recently enacted "greywater" rules for small daily volumes that could be used, by homeowner design. Flows, over those volumes, still require an engineered system comparable to a standard septic system (drainfield sizing) principally because greywater by state law is defined as "wastewater".

    Here is the overall rule for wastewater mangement:

    http://apps.leg.wa.gov/wac/default.aspx?cite=246-272A

    ...and no, an outhouse is not an original composting toilet, simply because it provides no treatment of the wastewater (of pathogens) before it is released back to the aquifer. Composting toilets work differently depending on how they are set, up. But, when the solids are removed, they are usually then further composted externally (turn them over in the sun for UV irradiation for 6-12 mths and then put them on your tomatoes) and the waste water is cooked or evaporated off in the toilet with heat or evaporation.

    The fact the Local Health jurisdiction is not enforceing replacement under current law has nothing to do with their legality and that they are effectively putting untreated wastewater straight back into the aquifer that they sit over.
    Last edited by jt59; 07-10-2011 at 02:58 PM.
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  19. #19
    Regular Member hermannr's Avatar
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    I saw nothing in those regs specifically prohibiting an outhouse, old style or new style. If it is not specifically prohibited, it is permitted.

    BTW: Black water should never enter a gray water system. If they changed the regs on gray water (sink, tub etc) has nothing to do with an outhouse.

    Also, yes, an outhouse is a composting toilet. Do you think the fluid coming out of a septic tank is clean enough to drink? No way, the fluid from a septic system has to filter through the soil just like the fluids in an old style outhouse do. When the septic tank is full of sludge, it must be pumped, when an outhouse is full of sludge, it just needs to be moved (unless is it one of the new style "vault" outhouses like the Forest Service uses, then it has to be pumped too) Oh, BTW: There is a DNR old style outhouse about 3 miles from my house.

    New style outhouses have concrete or fiberglass tanks that are pumped, just like a septic tank. Old style outhouse, if it's full, you dig a new hole and move the building, and you have a 4'X4' spot of very good soil where it stood..
    Last edited by hermannr; 07-10-2011 at 07:22 PM.

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    Regular Member amlevin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hermannr View Post
    Old style outhouse, if it's full, you dig a new hole and move the building, and you have a 4'X4' spot of very good soil where it stood..
    When I was a kid it was still popular to move somebody's outhouse BACK about 4' even if the hole wasn't full. Usually happened around Halloween.

    Just a note, legal or not, I don't think I'd want rely on an outhouse in EA Washington in the Winter. If I had to I think I'd be constipated from October to April (or whenever the temp was below the comfort zone). Of course there are also the yellow jackets and wasps.
    Last edited by amlevin; 07-11-2011 at 10:16 AM.
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    Regular Member hermannr's Avatar
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    Come on, it doesn't get THAT cold over here. Worst so far, Here at this location has been -27F. I remember a bit lower than that when we lived a few miles north east of here on the other side of the border in the '50s.

    Yes, I have used an out house in very cold weather, not fun, you go quick.... but if it got really ugly, (below 0F) we would use a chamber pot in the house.

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    Your idea sounds really cool. I wish you the best of luck. I mighta given it a try, if I wasn't so afraid of what my wife might say....
    "When seconds count between living or dying, the police are only minutes away."

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    Regular Member amzbrady's Avatar
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    Maybe check and see what system they use at state parks, Out house style or pump it out everyso often. I think if I were lookin for a permanant solution, I would do a drain field.
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    Regular Member amlevin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by amzbrady View Post
    Maybe check and see what system they use at state parks, Out house style or pump it out everyso often. I think if I were lookin for a permanant solution, I would do a drain field.
    Most of the State Parks I have been to, that don't have septic system, use "Vault Toilets" that get pumped out every so often. They come complete with Flies, Bee's, and more than an adequate supply of Stench!

    Septic would be my choice too but the cost is atrocious. As long as you have soil that will "perk" and a downhill slope so you don't have to pump to the leach field the cost can be kept down but they can still cost as much as a 5th wheel itself. The "engineering" and permit are a big part of the cost.

    We have some "woods dwellers" near where I live that store their waste in 5-Gal "Homer Buckets" from Home Depot. They then make regular trips to the state rest area on I-5 to dump them. If the economy gets much worse we'll see more of these.
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    XD45ZX10R, have you lived in an RV? Full time not just for a vacation.

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