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Thread: What type of round is best?

  1. #1
    Regular Member mspgunner's Avatar
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    What type of round is best?

    This is a very good read on firearms:
    http://www.buckeyefirearms.org/node/7866
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    Regular Member 45acpForMe's Avatar
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    It was an interesting article. I liked his premise of the psychological stop vs the physical stop. That makes alot of sense to me in that after one bullet many/most people will decide to stop their attack vs the hardcore that keep coming.

    If you watch any youtube video's of convenient store robberies, most I have seen show the criminal disengaging and running as soon as the clerk pulls a gun out. Shot may be fired but from a retreating criminal.

    I agree it would be nice to see data covering the different types of ammo (HP, +P, etc).

    I often advise people to carry whatever they can control because a miss with a large caliber is worse than a hit with a smaller one.

    I would be curious to see what percentage of attack stops are psychological when no hits are made. So how many people run away at even the thought of being shot.

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    I have my full sized 1911 stoked with Remington Golden Saber 230 grain hollowpoints.
    My reason is that is what the local Police Department uses for ammo.
    HTH
    Bob

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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    The round that is best is the one you have with you in a handgun that goes bang when you press the trigger and you can put on target - as opposed to missing altogether - when you need to.

    Elephants have been killed with .22LR. Infants have survived multiple hits from battle rifle and hunting rounds.

    There is no one "best ever" bullet that is going to do what you hope it will do every time.

    But it sure is fun expanding the .45acp vs 9mm debate, isn't it?

    stay safe.
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    Speer Gold Dot is the only round to pass all of the FBI's tests, and it does so consistently!

    They are also the only company to make a reliable performing round for short-barreled handguns (under 4.25").

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    I really like the Hornady Critical Defense (although they don't make it in every caliber). The testing that they have done (search critical defense videos) is very convincing.

    We use rubber horse stall mats as our backstop for pistols, and this is one of only two HP bullets that mushrooms every time, and consistently mushrooms. The other is CorBon DPX (loaded with Barnes all copper HP).

    The critical defense is nice because it will mushroom even at lower velocities out of short barrels. We have shot these from 1.5" revolver barrels and pocket autos, and they expand every time, from every gun, in every caliber.

    That said, I think the biggest things to consider in handgun ammo that you carry are 1) can you hit what you aim at, 2) have you practiced with that ammo 3) do you feel confident in that ammo 4) will your gun cycle that ammo?

    Just my $0.02

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    ocgso, I just wanted to let you know (you might already know) that the Hornady Critical Defense will not penetrate a car door very well or a front window at all from what I know. I am not sure if it will go through a side window.
    I could be wrong, but I thought I read a test report on them, and how well they do against solid objects.
    Never know when you may have to shoot through cover. Anything can happen.

    I carry them in my 9mm, but its important to know the limitations of the rounds you are carrying.

    I think the best round is the largest round you can handle and still shoot very well from 2 feet to 25 feet.
    I only have a 9mm, but I have shot .40 S&W, .45 and .357, I can place all very well but I got a great deal on my ruger 9mm.

    9mm is the smallest I would carry (just me) and .45/.357 would be the largest, but for S/D daily carry I prefer a semi-auto for personal reasons.
    But I do love my .22LR singe action!

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    Remington Golden Saber for .45 ACP

    A while back I bought a SigSauer P220 from a friend, who was an FBI Agent; it was his personal weapon but he used it for duty.

    He told me that the FBI used Remington Golden Saber rounds for their .45 ACPs because of their effectiveness.

    Again, that was a while back; I am sure there are other just as effective rounds on the market today.

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    I have been looking at and testing self defense rounds for over 35 years any of the major manufactors self defense rounds made with in the last 10 years well work just fine. The bullet development has come a long ways I wouldn't be afraid to carry any of their defensive rounds. Rt now its WW silver tips in my 380, 165 gr rem golden sabers in my 40s, Win 115s +ps and silver tips in my 9mms, Rem green box 230 gr JHPs in my 45. Hard cast 215 and 315 gr in my 41 and 44mag for woods carry,

    Iam not above changing if I wuold get a good buy on something else for any of them. But when it comes to defensive ammo one does not go trough a lot of it.

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    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Titan357 View Post
    ocgso, I just wanted to let you know (you might already know) that the Hornady Critical Defense will not penetrate ... very well ...
    Forgive the snip.

    This is actually a selling point for the defensive load. It would be hard to picture a legitimate self-defense scenario that has me shooting at an attacker who is behind cover.

    Police are the ones much more likely to need something like the newer breed of bonded stuff. They are far less concerned with overpenetration than we are.

    Of course, what do I use? .45 ACP FMJ. I never have to worry about my 1911 shooting different kinds of ammo to different places or with questionable reliability. And it's already leaving the muzzle at the diameter of an expanded .38/9mm.
    Last edited by MAC702; 08-04-2011 at 01:11 AM.

  11. #11
    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 45acpForMe View Post
    ... I liked his premise of the psychological stop vs the physical stop. ....
    I am very glad to see this making more mention. There is always good reason to have an effective manstopper, but an aimed .22 in the hands of a CONFIDENT would-be victim is leaps and bounds beyond any intimidating 9mm or .45 to the countless thousands of armed civilians that aren't exactly proficient as those of us who are the ones more likely to be talking to each other all the time about our firearms.

    This is the gist of what I tell my students who ask about types of firearms:

    The vast majority of us will never need to draw our firearm to stop an attack.
    Of those of us who must do so, most of us will not need to fire the weapon to stop the attack.
    Of those of us who must do so, the vast majority of us will not need to rely on the stopping power of the bullet to stop the attack.
    But for those last EXTREMELY rare events, I carry a .45 ACP.

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    230 gr. Gold Dots for HP use= consistent/reliable expansion more often than not, while still penetrating deep enough to do the job.
    230 TMJ for hardball - Interesting thing about the TMJs- their points are soft enough to flatten out when hitting anything hard inside-not quiet mushrooming like HP but decent. Also, having the base of the slug jacketed- they retain more of their weight, rather than squashing flat and squirting their core lead out through the base like typical FMJ.
    I mix-load my mags w/ alternating GD/TMJ ,just to cover both bases. (Pen+Exp.)

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    Quote Originally Posted by MAC702 View Post
    Forgive the snip.

    This is actually a selling point for the defensive load. It would be hard to picture a legitimate self-defense scenario that has me shooting at an attacker who is behind cover.

    Police are the ones much more likely to need something like the newer breed of bonded stuff. They are far less concerned with overpenetration than we are.

    Of course, what do I use? .45 ACP FMJ. I never have to worry about my 1911 shooting different kinds of ammo to different places or with questionable reliability. And it's already leaving the muzzle at the diameter of an expanded .38/9mm.
    Someone recently posted about a defensive shooting where the person had to shoot at a driver who was repeatedly trying to run people over. But I agree that these types of situations are extremely rare for most people (even more rare than being in a situation that requires your gun).

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