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Where to OC in SE Michigan

DanM

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 11, 2008
Messages
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West Bloomfield, Michigan, USA
detroit_fan said:
DanM said:
Your jokes aren't good. Don't quit your day job.
wasn't meant to be funny. it's very possible a judge with an agenda or one that lets personal beliefs guide their decision could rule against us.

Judges giving bad rulings based on agenda or personal beliefs happens all the time. That is a fact.

Facts are different than predictions. Predictions like:
detroit_fan said:
the cadl case has a good chance to end ALL OC in MI.

I agree with your fact about judges. I do not agree with your prediction. If it's not a bad joke, it's even worse as a straight-faced prediction.

Here's a prediction much more likely to be true: the CADL case has little to zero chance to end ALL OC in MI.
 
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detroit_fan

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Mar 27, 2009
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Monroe, Michigan, USA
Judges giving bad rulings based on agenda or personal beliefs happens all the time. That is a fact.

Facts are different than predictions. Predictions like:


I agree with your fact about judges. I do not agree with your prediction. If it's not a bad joke, it's even worse as a straight-faced prediction.

Here's a prediction much more likely to be true: the CADL case has little to zero chance to end ALL OC in MI.

I wish I was a confident as you, I'm just not anymore. Before we found out who the judge was did you really believe the cadl would be able to ban oc from the library? I didn't, but it sure as hell happened. I see it as 50/50, depending on who the judge is, so I consider that a good chance. If you disagree that's fine, I hope you're right. I've just lost my confidence in our judicial system.
 
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Bikenut

Guest
Judges giving bad rulings based on agenda or personal beliefs happens all the time. That is a fact.

Facts are different than predictions. Predictions like:


I agree with your fact about judges. I do not agree with your prediction. If it's not a bad joke, it's even worse as a straight-faced prediction.

Here's a prediction much more likely to be true: the CADL case has little to zero chance to end ALL OC in MI.
I'm intrigued... would you mind explaining your thought processes as to how if OC is declared to be the crime of brandishing there would still be a way to legally OC?
 

Haman J.T.

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CADL has asked that OC be considered brandishing. Since it is going to be decided at the appeals level, if the judge decides that OC is brandishing, it could become case law.
They would have to take the meaning of brandish-to wave or flourish about menacingly,and consider a gun in a holster to be waving or flourishing.Gun in holster-no movement or activity,gun waving and flourishing in hand-movement and activity.
 

Haman J.T.

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I'm intrigued... would you mind explaining your thought processes as to how if OC is declared to be the crime of brandishing there would still be a way to legally OC?
They would first have to go through MCRGO v. Ferndale to eliminate Possession.There are precedents on possession up the wazzoo!
 
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Bikenut

Guest
They would have to take the meaning of brandish-to wave or flourish about menacingly,and consider a gun in a holster to be waving or flourishing.Gun in holster-no movement or activity,gun waving and flourishing in hand-movement and activity.

With the respect you know I have for you and your posts....

May I suggest going here:

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/brandish

and read all the definitions of the word "brandish"........

They would first have to go through MCRGO v. Ferndale to eliminate Possession.There are precedents on possession up the wazzoo!

Please tell me how "possession" would change the definitions of "brandish"?
 

Haman J.T.

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With the respect you know I have for you and your posts....

May I suggest going here:

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/brandish

and read all the definitions of the word "brandish"........



Please tell me how "possession" would change the definitions of "brandish"?
The question is how do you call a gun possessed in a holster brandishing by any of the definitions and precedents?
 
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Venator

Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter
Joined
Jan 10, 2007
Messages
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Location
Lansing area, Michigan, USA
wasn't meant to be funny. it's very possible a judge with an agenda or one that lets personal beliefs guide their decision could rule against us.

Well they need two out of three judges this time. I think it unlikely they will even rule on it. Now if someone were convicted of brandishing for just OCing and it went to the COA, they would rule on that.
 

DanM

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 11, 2008
Messages
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Location
West Bloomfield, Michigan, USA
I'm intrigued... would you mind explaining your thought processes as to how if OC is declared to be the crime of brandishing there would still be a way to legally OC?

Huh? I didn't say if OC is declared brandishing, OC will still be legal. That would be stupid.

I said that detroit_fan is wrong that "the CADL case has a good chance to end ALL OC in MI".

Even the anti-gunner CADL judge agreed, in denying CADL their attempt to connect OC to brandishing, that OC needed to go beyond mere carry of a handgun in a holster, and to actual threatening behavior, in order to be "brandishing".

I'm confident that if even this ant-gun judge saw that clear definition of brandishing, and it didn't apply to OC, that most other judges will as well. Especially the higher this may go. I'm near-certain we would have at least a 5-4 SCOTUS saying "brandishing" must involve an element of actual threatening words or gestures.
 
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