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Thread: Citizen shot by officer - (Kalifornia) involving alcohol

  1. #1
    Regular Member jt59's Avatar
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    Citizen shot by officer - (Kalifornia) involving alcohol

    Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs, even though checkered by failure, than to take rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy much nor suffer much, because they live in the grey twilight that knows not victory nor defeat....Teddy Roosevelt

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    Regular Member Badger Johnson's Avatar
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    Does not look like RAS for a stop/detainment. If bagged goods, illegal search, imo.
    A gun in a holster is better than one drawn and dispensing bullets. Concealed forces the latter. - ixtow

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    Campaign Veteran slapmonkay's Avatar
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    A LEO have many tools at their disposal. Yet instead of pepper spray, taser or beat stick they insisted on shooting him where he stood for swinging some beers at a cop. Don't get me wrong, if he was being charged or something by all means, but it seems there are some missing facts, I would hope that the LEO at least warned him or he saw the gun and decided not to comply before shooting him. Seems our LEO's today are getting a little too trigger happy, shoot first ask questions later, but that might just be me.

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    Regular Member Badger Johnson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by slapmonkay View Post
    A LEO have many tools at their disposal. Yet instead of pepper spray, taser or beat stick they insisted on shooting him where he stood for swinging some beers at a cop. Don't get me wrong, if he was being charged or something by all means, but it seems there are some missing facts, I would hope that the LEO at least warned him or he saw the gun and decided not to comply before shooting him. Seems our LEO's today are getting a little too trigger happy, shoot first ask questions later, but that might just be me.
    If an ordinary citizen shot someone armed with only a bag of groceries would that be a good shoot? NO!! Neither is this.
    A gun in a holster is better than one drawn and dispensing bullets. Concealed forces the latter. - ixtow

    Hi, I'm hypercritical. But I mean no harm, I just like to try to look deeply at life

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    Opt-Out Members BigDave's Avatar
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    Sheriff's reports said the incident occurred outside a convenience store after deputies responded to reports of a group of 10 to 15 juveniles who were asking adults to buy them alcohol and cigarettes.

    When the deputies arrived they encountered Turner, 56, leaving the store with his 19-year-old son and another 16-year-old carrying bags of items he had purchased, including alcohol.

    Police said they detained Turner, who initially cooperated but then attempted to leave and fought with officers as they tried to stop him.

    Turner allegedly hit one of the deputies on the back of the head with a bag containing two cans of beer. Another deputy responded by drawing his handgun and shooting the former football player twice.

    Reported illegal activity at that location, was his sons carrying alcohol at that time? striking an officer in the back of the head, hmmm could initiate a response!
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    Regular Member amlevin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigDave View Post
    striking an officer in the back of the head, hmmm could initiate a response!
    Idiom Definitions for 'Mess with a bull, you get the horns'

    If you do something stupid or dangerous, you can get hurt.

    Getting hit in the head with a full beer can could be fatal.

    Not a smart move on the victims part. Hard to feel sorry for him.
    "If I shoot all the ammo I am carrying I either won't need anymore or more won't help"

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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Without all the details there seems to be a good case for saying RAS was present. Turner's kid carrying a bag that had cans of alcoholic beverage in it, while under the supervision of his father, has nothing to do with RAS. It's all in the connection the paper is trying to make us see between allegations of underage youth asking adults to buy products they are prohibited from purchasing and Turner coming out of the store with "several bags" that may have been purchased for those underaged youth - or for his saintly and aged grandmother. As far as the limited info goes, I can see the cops RAS related to sorting things out.

    Things went south when Turner went from cooperative to beligerant. Hitting a cop is not a Good Thing (TM). - ever. But the other cop's response of applying lethal force, absent additional information such as, for instance, the cop that was struck was out like a light and /or bleeding profusely from a head wound, Turner continued to beat on the cop he struck, or Turner was trying to take the cop's handgun, does seem (remember that word - seem) a bit more than was necessary.

    We weren't there. We have not seen any video to help us do more than form impressions based on the merest shred of information.

    And don't forget, Hitting a cop is not a Good Thing (TM). - ever.

    stay safe.

  8. #8
    Regular Member amlevin's Avatar
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    Update:

    According to a news report in the "Californian" the Deputy was hit in the back of the head with a bag containing two 24 oz. cans of beer. That's 3 pounds (plus the weight of the cans). Any way one slices it that's potentially lethal force.

    http://www.bakersfield.com/news/loca...mpaign=synapse
    "If I shoot all the ammo I am carrying I either won't need anymore or more won't help"

    "If you refuse to stand up for others now, who will stand up for you when your time comes?"

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    Also, don't forget that not all officers are provided or trained with the less than lethal force tools like Taser. If I were in officer #2's position with only a sidearm and not a Taser or what ever and a large man (remember we're dealing with a football player) starts fighting and hitting my partner in the head with a heavy bag that contains canned goods, I'm shooting. You don't always have the time to stand there and debate with yourself as to whether or not the person in question is going to stop with one blow, or 50. Also, sometimes, especially with head trauma, one blow is enough to kill.

    With the info we have from the articles, I have to side with the officers. Perhaps my opinion might change if there is more evidence that shows that the officers weren't in any danger at all.

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    Regular Member amlevin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sirpuma View Post
    and a large man (remember we're dealing with a football player) starts fighting and hitting my partner in the head with a heavy bag that contains canned goods, I'm shooting.
    Just for the sake of accuracy, this former player weighed 212 and was 5'11" when playing. Probably a little heavier now but not one of those "Giants" that seem to be on the field today.
    "If I shoot all the ammo I am carrying I either won't need anymore or more won't help"

    "If you refuse to stand up for others now, who will stand up for you when your time comes?"

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    Quote Originally Posted by amlevin View Post
    Just for the sake of accuracy, this former player weighed 212 and was 5'11" when playing. Probably a little heavier now but not one of those "Giants" that seem to be on the field today.
    Well, to me 5'11" and 212 is a big guy. LOL

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    Regular Member ARADCOM's Avatar
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    Question Another side of the story

    http://northeast.bakersfieldnow.com/...ront-son/71853

    "They asked my dad if he was the person buying alcohol for underage youth," Jerrica Cor-Dova said.

    According to Turner's son, his father denied the claims, but deputies continued to question him. Turner then asked officers if he was being arrested. The deputies said no, and Turner grabbed his stuff and began to walk away.

    "As he was walking away, the officers came up behind him and hit him in the back of the legs with a club, causing him to fall on his knees," Cor-Dova said.

    Turner's son said the bag his father was carrying fell to the ground and the beer in the bag exploded. The next thing he heard was two shots being fired.

    "My brother said he yelled my dad's name, and my father was lying there still," Cor-Dova relayed the story.

    "I know that there is a video recording, so we are relying heavily on the video recording from Fastrip," Cor-Dova said.

    Eyewitness News contacted Fastrip in an effort to obtain the surveillance video, but, due to the ongoing investigation, it cannot release the video.

  13. #13
    Regular Member amlevin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sirpuma View Post
    Well, to me 5'11" and 212 is a big guy. LOL


    But by today's NFL Standards where linemen can be over 6' and approaching 300# he was small.
    "If I shoot all the ammo I am carrying I either won't need anymore or more won't help"

    "If you refuse to stand up for others now, who will stand up for you when your time comes?"

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    Regular Member Thundar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ARADCOM View Post
    http://northeast.bakersfieldnow.com/...ront-son/71853

    "They asked my dad if he was the person buying alcohol for underage youth," Jerrica Cor-Dova said.

    According to Turner's son, his father denied the claims, but deputies continued to question him. Turner then asked officers if he was being arrested. The deputies said no, and Turner grabbed his stuff and began to walk away.

    "As he was walking away, the officers came up behind him and hit him in the back of the legs with a club, causing him to fall on his knees," Cor-Dova said.

    Turner's son said the bag his father was carrying fell to the ground and the beer in the bag exploded. The next thing he heard was two shots being fired.

    "My brother said he yelled my dad's name, and my father was lying there still," Cor-Dova relayed the story.

    "I know that there is a video recording, so we are relying heavily on the video recording from Fastrip," Cor-Dova said.

    Eyewitness News contacted Fastrip in an effort to obtain the surveillance video, but, due to the ongoing investigation, it cannot release the video.
    There is a huge difference between the two stories. They cannot both exist. Somebody is a liar.
    He wore his gun outside his pants for all the honest world to see. Pancho & Lefty

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    Regular Member Dave_pro2a's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thundar View Post
    There is a huge difference between the two stories. They cannot both exist. Somebody is a liar.
    Who has the motive to lie, the biggest motive?

    Who is legally allowed to lie while performing their job?

    Who has been trained and encouraged to lie while in the performance of their job?



    A: Cops


    I think I'll trust the brother and kid unless the video proves otherwise. Assuming it doesn't get erased by accident.
    Last edited by Dave_pro2a; 07-12-2011 at 12:49 PM.

  16. #16
    Regular Member HandyHamlet's Avatar
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    If he fell to the ground he was shot in the back?
    "Don't interfere with anything in the Constitution. That must be maintained, for it is the only safeguard of our liberties."
    Abraham Lincoln

    "Some time ago, a bunch of lefties defied the law by dancing at the Jefferson Memorial, resulting in their arrests. Last week, a bunch of them pulled the same stunt and - using patented Lefist techniques - provoked the Park Police into having to use force to arrest them."
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  17. #17
    Opt-Out Members BigDave's Avatar
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    2 opposing stories, waiting for the video and see who ducks!
    • Being prepared is to prepare, this is our responsibility.
    • I am not your Mommy or Daddy and do not sugar coat it but I will tell you simply as how I see it, it is up to you on how you will or will not use it.
    • IANAL, all information I present is for your review, do your own homework.

  18. #18
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    This really should be discussed in the general forum or social lounge, not much to do with Washington OC.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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