• We are now running on a new, and hopefully much-improved, server. In addition we are also on new forum software. Any move entails a lot of technical details and I suspect we will encounter a few issues as the new server goes live. Please be patient with us. It will be worth it! :) Please help by posting all issues here.
  • The forum will be down for about an hour this weekend for maintenance. I apologize for the inconvenience.
  • If you are having trouble seeing the forum then you may need to clear your browser's DNS cache. Click here for instructions on how to do that
  • Please review the Forum Rules frequently as we are constantly trying to improve the forum for our members and visitors.

And so it starts, Where will it end, and how far will it go?

Bookman

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Aug 3, 2008
Messages
1,424
Location
Winston Salem, North Carolina, United States
You and i both know that this is BS legislation designed to draw attention away from the F&F fiasco where the un dealers VOLUNTARILY reported multiple and suspected straw sales to the ATF and were told "Don't worry, we've got it". Look where that got them.

What they need is a law saying that US Government agencies can't run guns.
 

Difdi

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 2, 2010
Messages
987
Location
Seattle, Washington, USA
What they need is a law saying that US Government agencies can't run guns.

Such a law already exists. The laws against gun smuggling don't have a law enforcement exemption.

But when it's the people charged with enforcing the smuggling laws, who also happen to be in charge of investigating violations, and choosing whether or not to prosecute violators being the ones who are violating the law, it's not terribly surprising that nobody ends up in jail for it.
 

thebigsd

Founder's Club Member
Joined
Mar 23, 2010
Messages
3,535
Location
Quarryville, PA
As Bookman already stated this is just an attempt to make the American populace believe that all of the problems in Mexico stem from gun stores in just FOUR states. C'mon, are people really going to fall for that. The ATF is expecting 18,000 reports, wonder what they pulled that number out of....
 

Right Wing Wacko

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Aug 11, 2007
Messages
645
Location
Marysville, Washington, USA
It requires about 8,500 dealers operating in the border states of California, Arizona, New Mexico and Texas to alert authorities when a person buys within five days two or more semiautomatic rifles greater than .22-caliber with detachable magazines.

Ahh... so AR-15's are exempt!
 
Last edited:

thebigsd

Founder's Club Member
Joined
Mar 23, 2010
Messages
3,535
Location
Quarryville, PA
It requires about 8,500 dealers operating in the border states of California, Arizona, New Mexico and Texas to alert authorities when a person buys within five days two or more semiautomatic rifles greater than .22-caliber with detachable magazines.

Ahh... so AR-15's are exempt!

How so?
 

Right Wing Wacko

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Aug 11, 2007
Messages
645
Location
Marysville, Washington, USA
Dispite what the ATF Says, federal LAW says:

(g)(1)(A) Each licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, and licensed dealer shall maintain such records of importation, production, shipment, receipt, sale, or other disposition of firearms at his place of business for such period, and in such form, as the Attorney General may by regulations prescribe. Such importers, manufacturers, and dealers shall not be required to submit to the Attorney General reports and information with respect to such records and the contents thereof, except as expressly required by this section.
 

Whitney

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 12, 2010
Messages
435
Location
Poulsbo, Kitsap County, Washington, USA
The Feds will do what they want

Dispite what the ATF Says, federal LAW says:

(g)(1)(A) Each licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, and licensed dealer shall maintain such records of importation, production, shipment, receipt, sale, or other disposition of firearms at his place of business for such period, and in such form, as the Attorney General may by regulations prescribe. Such importers, manufacturers, and dealers shall not be required to submit to the Attorney General reports and information with respect to such records and the contents thereof, except as expressly required by this section.

Title 18 Chapter 44 Section 923 (g 5A and 5B). Firearms Licensing

(5) (A) Each licensee shall, when required by letter issued by the Attorney General, and until notified to the contrary in writing by the Attorney General, submit on a form specified by the Attorney General, for periods and at the times specified in such letter, all record information required to be kept by this chapter or such lesser record information as the Attorney General in such letter may specify.


(B) The Attorney General may authorize such record information to be submitted in a manner other than that prescribed in subparagraph (A) of this paragraph when it is shown by a licensee that an alternate method of reporting is reasonably necessary and will not unduly hinder the effective administration of this chapter. A licensee may use an alternate method of reporting if the licensee describes the proposed alternate method of reporting and the need therefor in a letter application submitted to the Attorney General, and the Attorney General approves such alternate method of reporting.

So... lets contort this BS some more. Since the statement of Deputy Attorney General James Cole does not specify "rim fire" 22 caliber weapons what is the real intent of this? Now the DOJ has to send each and every "FFL Dealer" notice of the new "requirement". FFL Dealers must comply or face penalties and continue reporting until notified to the contrary. Section 924 covers penalties.

~Whitney
 

amlevin

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 16, 2007
Messages
5,937
Location
North of Seattle, Washington, USA
Well, technically, .223 is larger than .22, given the extra .003 of diameter. It's not much bigger, but it is indeed bigger.

ACTUALLY, the .223 is a "Name" not a diameter of the bullet. a .22LR bullet and .223 bullets are .224" in diameter.



Caliber "Name" doesn't indicate the bullet diameter. .45's are .452" to .454"; .38 Spl=.357"; and the .380 is only .355" in diameter.
 

Difdi

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 2, 2010
Messages
987
Location
Seattle, Washington, USA
ACTUALLY, the .223 is a "Name" not a diameter of the bullet. a .22LR bullet and .223 bullets are .224" in diameter.



Caliber "Name" doesn't indicate the bullet diameter. .45's are .452" to .454"; .38 Spl=.357"; and the .380 is only .355" in diameter.

I stand corrected. But that's actually worse than the point I raised. If .22 ammo is actually larger than .22, wouldn't that mean that all such .22 ammo is subject to the reporting requirement?
 

Freedom First

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 8, 2010
Messages
845
Location
Kennewick, Wa.
...But when it's the people charged with enforcing the smuggling laws, who also happen to be in charge of investigating violations, and choosing whether or not to prosecute violators being the ones who are violating the law, it's not terribly surprising that nobody ends up in jail for it.

Damn fine writing. Great job of exposing an ignored fact to an oblivious world. Thank you and keep posting!
 

amlevin

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 16, 2007
Messages
5,937
Location
North of Seattle, Washington, USA
I stand corrected. But that's actually worse than the point I raised. If .22 ammo is actually larger than .22, wouldn't that mean that all such .22 ammo is subject to the reporting requirement?

Now look what you have done! This will force batf to think. Imagine the paperwork.

Not really, they just go by "Caliber", not "Caliper":)
 
Top