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Thread: Am I legal? Borrowing non cpl holders pistol to OC.

  1. #1
    Regular Member kyleplusitunes's Avatar
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    Am I legal? Borrowing non cpl holders pistol to OC.

    About to borrow my brothers pistol, he does NOT have a cpl, I DO have my CPL.

    Am I legal to OC this borrowed pistol?

    I have read posts saying both pistol lender and lendee must have a CPL but the law does not appear to be worded in a way that requires the lender to be a CPL holder.

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    Regular Member RenegadeMarine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kyleplusitunes View Post
    About to borrow my brothers pistol, he does NOT have a cpl, I DO have my CPL.

    Am I legal to OC this borrowed pistol?

    I have read posts saying both pistol lender and lendee must have a CPL but the law does not appear to be worded in a way that requires the lender to be a CPL holder.
    From what I understand you may OC or CC any pistol that is registered in Michigan, regardless if the owner has a CPL or not.

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    Regular Member Outdoorsman's Avatar
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    From the MSP website.

    3. Is it okay if I loan my pistol to a friend?

    MCL 28.432 An individual can carry, possess, use or transport a pistol belonging to another individual, if the pistol is properly licensed under the Act, and the individual carrying, possessing, using or transporting the pistol has obtained a license to carry a pistol concealed permit from Michigan.



    http://www.michigan.gov/msp/0,1607,7...0953--,00.html

    http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(32d...ame=mcl-28-432

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    Regular Member RenegadeMarine's Avatar
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    Thanks for the backup Outdoorsman! I didn't have time to post the cite.

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    Regular Member Outdoorsman's Avatar
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    Talking

    Quote Originally Posted by RenegadeMarine View Post
    Thanks for the backup Outdoorsman! I didn't have time to post the cite.
    No problem, glad to be of service.

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    To be nitpicky (that's what we do here right?) I believe you can carry a borrowed gun, but the real question is would you be transferring a pistol[1]? Awhile ago when I looked into this, that was the problem I saw, you car use somebody else's gun all the live long day, but you can't transfer 'possession' of a pistol unless both parties have CPL's or the non CPL holder gets a PP. Atleast how the law is written IIRC... But it could be argued if you live in the same house you aren't transferring it...



    [1] The person I asked about a very similar issue as this, claimed they spoke with MSP and the MSPs opinion was it a no-go, for above reasons. Only CPL to CPL pistol borrowing is allowed.

    ANAL, sorry no citations.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rix937 View Post
    To be nitpicky (that's what we do here right?) I believe you can carry a borrowed gun, but the real question is would you be transferring a pistol[1]? Awhile ago when I looked into this, that was the problem I saw, you car use somebody else's gun all the live long day, but you can't transfer 'possession' of a pistol unless both parties have CPL's or the non CPL holder gets a PP. Atleast how the law is written IIRC... But it could be argued if you live in the same house you aren't transferring it...



    [1] The person I asked about a very similar issue as this, claimed they spoke with MSP and the MSPs opinion was it a no-go, for above reasons. Only CPL to CPL pistol borrowing is allowed.

    ANAL, sorry no citations.
    Please go thru the info outdoorsman has furnished, it will weed out any hearsay,in short--- the pistol must be registered to the lending party, the borrower must have a cpl, transfers are required within a set amount of days(somebody correct me if Im wrong please)but is more of a recommendation-10 days is what I have always been told. Also lender does not need a cpl to lend or sell.
    Last edited by Rasher; 07-16-2011 at 08:52 PM.

  8. #8
    Regular Member Bronson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rasher View Post
    the pistol must be registered to the lending party, the borrower must have a cpl, transfers are required within a set amount of days(somebody correct me if Im wrong please)but is more of a recommendation-10 days is what I have always been told.
    Just my opinion but if a MI CPL holder is borrowing a legal pistol then there is no requirement to transfer ownership regardless of how long the CPL holder possesses the borrowed pistol.

    I base this on the fact that the requirement to transfer ownership is in MCL 28.422.

    28.422 License to purchase, carry, possess, or transport pistol; issuance; qualifications; applications; sale of pistol; exemptions; nonresidents; basic pistol safety brochure; forging application; implementation during business hours.
    Sec. 2.

    (5) If an individual purchases or otherwise acquires a pistol, the seller shall fill out the license forms describing the pistol, together with the date of sale or acquisition, and sign his or her name in ink indicating that the pistol was sold to or otherwise acquired by the purchaser. The purchaser shall also sign his or her name in ink indicating the purchase or other acquisition of the pistol from the seller. The seller may retain a copy of the license as a record of the transaction. The purchaser shall receive 3 copies of the license. The purchaser shall return 2 copies of the license to the licensing authority within 10 days after the date the pistol is purchased or acquired. ...
    But MCL 28.432 exempts a CPL holder that is borrowing a legal pistol from 28.422 in its entirety.


    28.432 Inapplicability of MCL 28.422; amendatory act as “Janet Kukuk act”.

    Sec. 12.

    (1) Section 2 (Section 2 is all of 28.422, Bronson)does not apply to any of the following:
    . . .

    (i) An individual carrying, possessing, using, or transporting a pistol belonging to another individual, if the other individual's possession of the pistol is authorized by law and the individual carrying, possessing, using, or transporting the pistol has obtained a license under section 5b to carry a concealed pistol or is exempt from licensure as provided in section 12a.
    Notice that nothing in (i) says the pistol being borrowed must be registered in MI. It only says the possession must be "authorized by law." This is important because under certain circumstances MI allows residents of other states, that are visiting MI, to possess their legally owned pistols without having to have them registered here. Since the possession of those pistols is also "authorized by law" a MI CPL holder could borrow one.

    I'm not a lawyer and this is all worth exactly what you paid for it....nothing.

    Bronson
    Those who expect to reap the benefits of freedom, must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it. – Thomas Paine

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    I see your point Bronson, but I know I saw somewhere that I saw where there is a expectation to transfer after ''borrowing" for so long. Could be I saw it on another forum for a differant state than MI. But your post clears it up thanks.

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