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Thread: Madison County Fair Unfriendly July 12-16, 2011

  1. #1
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    Madison County Fair Unfriendly July 12-16, 2011

    http://www.madisoncountyfairva.com/

    "All structures must meet with current building, electrical, sanitation, health, county, State, and Federal regulations. The Madison County Fair Board reserves the right to remove any items from display that do not comply. NO weapons (including toy) will be allowed on the Fair Grounds. This includes water pistols and toy knives."

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    Founder's Club Member thebigsd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kenny View Post
    http://www.madisoncountyfairva.com/

    "All structures must meet with current building, electrical, sanitation, health, county, State, and Federal regulations. The Madison County Fair Board reserves the right to remove any items from display that do not comply. NO weapons (including toy) will be allowed on the Fair Grounds. This includes water pistols and toy knives."
    Yes, we must watch out for those high-capacity water assault rifles. What a joke. It's bad enough that they're banning real weapons, but they're paranoid enough to specifically ban children's toys.
    "When seconds count between living or dying, the police are only minutes away."

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    I'm working up a note to them through the fair's website contact feature. I'll post what I send to them shortly. They'll be put on notice that they are likely in violation of the law if they try to enforce this rule Kenny found.

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    Kenny under what heading did you find that rule?

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    Regular Member wylde007's Avatar
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    Angry Duh.

    Quote Originally Posted by jmelvin View Post
    I'm working up a note to them through the fair's website contact feature. I'll post what I send to them shortly. They'll be put on notice that they are likely in violation of the law if they try to enforce this rule Kenny found.
    County Fair. County Fairgrounds.

    = PREEMPTED.
    The quiet war has begun, with silent weapons
    And the newest slavery is to keep the people poor, and stupid
    Novos ordo seclorum ~ Mustaine

    Never argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.

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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jmelvin View Post
    Kenny under what heading did you find that rule?
    It's under the "Vendors" section.

    Interesting, I wonder if they mean it to only apply to vendors, and could that somehow circumvent 15.2-915?

    TFred

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    Regular Member wylde007's Avatar
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    Exclamation Select the Brochure

    Quote Originally Posted by jmelvin View Post
    Kenny under what heading did you find that rule?
    The closest I find is on page 19, line item 5.

    The text he references can be found under "SETUP" on the Vendor link.

    Again, if the property is County property, then preemption rules. If it is private property (it might be, but doesn't look like it is) then we all know how this will likely play out.
    Last edited by wylde007; 07-12-2011 at 04:18 PM.
    The quiet war has begun, with silent weapons
    And the newest slavery is to keep the people poor, and stupid
    Novos ordo seclorum ~ Mustaine

    Never argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.

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    Activist Member Wolf_shadow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wylde007 View Post
    County Fair. County Fairgrounds.

    = PREEMPTED.
    Gov. or Private? Madison County Fair, Inc. A lot of county fairs are privately owned and not actually run by the local Government. This really sounds like it's being run by antis.

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    Map of the fairgrounds, which is apparently across the street from a High School and could present its own set of challenges:

    http://s249892441.onlinehome.us/mcf/directions.aspx

    Vendor link is the only place where I can find mention of "no guns".

    Worth delving into..

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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wylde007 View Post
    The closest I find is on page 19, line item 5.
    That answers my question then... not just for vendors.

    "5. No alcohol, drugs or weapons of any
    kind are permitted on the Grounds,
    including parking areas."

    TFred

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    Regular Member wylde007's Avatar
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    Angry

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyan View Post
    Map of the fairgrounds, which is apparently across the street from a High School and could present its own set of challenges:
    There is no 1000' rule in Virginia. That's a federal code.

    Screw 'em.
    The quiet war has begun, with silent weapons
    And the newest slavery is to keep the people poor, and stupid
    Novos ordo seclorum ~ Mustaine

    Never argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.

  12. #12
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    I just provided the following to the Madison County Fair Board via the fair's "contact us" feature.

    Good afternoon members of the Madison County Fair Board,

    As I was browsing the fair's website I read the Madison County Fair's general rules for entry and noticed that it appeared that the County Fair Board is either unaware that it may run afoul of Code of Virginia with regard to the carrying of firearms on county property, or it is blatantly disregarding the Code and hoping to get away with it. I hope that the situation is the prior and not the latter.

    Specifically, the rules section makes this rule:

    "5. No alcohol, drugs or weapons of any kind are permitted on the Grounds, including parking areas."

    Any attempt by the Madison County Fair Board or any county, city or other official to regulate the carrying of firearms on county owned property is specifically prohibited in the Code of Virginia Section 15.2-915 ( http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp...0+cod+15.2-915 ). Attempted enforcement of the Madison County Fair Rule on county property puts the Fair Board, law enforcement officials and any others involved at significant jeopardy of violating the rights of visitors and exposes the officials to both civil and criminal liability for attempting to enforce an invalid rule under color of law.

    Please consider this as notice that a portion of Madison County Fair general entry rule #5 is likely in violation of the Code of Virginia if the fairgrounds are county property. I am sure that as responsible representatives of Madison County and its residents you will ensure that the county and its taxpayers are not exposed to criminal and civil penalties as a result of a county fair rule. Please let me know how the Madison County Fair Board will resolve this issue such that fair visitors are not unlawfully detained and such that the fair is not in violation of the Code of Virginia Section 15.2-915.

    Thank you for your diligent attention in this matter,

    jmelvin
    Lynchburg, VA
    Phone Number

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    The tract of land is adjacent to the school bus barn. The County Attorney is also in private practice and was in court this afternoon. Hopefully he will clarify. I can't see them as being antis. I'm hoping just some moms gone wild with rules.

    If you look at Google you will see a dirt strip and that is the tractor pull area.

    http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&sour...nia+22727&z=16

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    As of this posting the web site has been changed.

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    Regular Member wylde007's Avatar
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    Question It has?

    Both locations mentioning weapons appear the same as they did yesterday.

    I have refreshed and full-refreshed the pages. No change.
    The quiet war has begun, with silent weapons
    And the newest slavery is to keep the people poor, and stupid
    Novos ordo seclorum ~ Mustaine

    Never argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.

  16. #16
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    There were several .pdf documents that had the rule listed within it. One of which was the rules listed for the agricultural shows, that also listed the general rules and the rules were also posted in the general fair brochure, which was online as well.

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    Regular Member Marco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kenny View Post
    As of this posting the web site has been changed.
    Pdf- Pg 20 item #5 stiil list no weapons.
    If you think like a Statist, act like one, or back some, you've given up on freedom and have gone over to the dark side.
    The easiest ex. but probably the most difficult to grasp for gun owners is that fool permission slip so many of you have, especially if you show it off with pride. You should recognize it as an embarrassment, an infringement, a travesty and an affront to a free person.


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    I was referring to the landing page of their web site, which is where I found the original statement.
    Last edited by kenny; 07-13-2011 at 10:32 AM.

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    I just received the following e-mail from the Madison County Fair Board:

    Mr. Melvin,

    Thank you for concern regarding the Madison County Fair rules and regulations. The Madison County Fair is a private entity not affilliated with the County government and the land on which the Fair is held is privately owned.

    Sincerely,
    Madison County Fair Board

  20. #20
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    Just sent the following back to the fair board:


    Madison County Fair Board,

    Thank you for the quick reply. I hope that in the future the Madison County Fair Board will understand that by disarming the good folks who are often your fair attendees, you ensure that those who have no regard for the fair rules are the only ones who will be carrying weapons. As a result this policy ensures that the otherwise good folks have no way of protecting themselves against those who would not only disregard your rules, but any applicable laws against robbery, rape, assault, etc. By disarming good folks who would attend your fair you also put yourself at jeopardy of being held liable for the safety of any fairgoers harmed by your policy. Since this "no weapons" rule willingly implements a policy that interferes with your patrons ability to provide for their own protection you potentially make yourselves fully responsible for their safety while lawfully on your property.

    I will make sure that my family and friends are aware of the Madison County Fair Boards decision to remove good folks' ability to provide for their own safety should they consider attending. If I can be of service please don't hesitate to write.

    Thanks again,

    Justin Melvin
    Last edited by jmelvin; 07-13-2011 at 01:40 PM.

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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    Maybe we should start including a quote from the Attorney General in letters like this...

    Something like,


    Even the Attorney General of Virginia has observed the foolishness of such policies, recently writing in an official opinion, "It certainly can be argued that such policies are ineffectual because persons who wish to perpetrate violence will ignore them, and that the net effect of such policies is to leave defenseless the law-abiding citizens who follow these policies."


    Can't hurt...

    TFred

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    Quote Originally Posted by TFred View Post
    Maybe we should start including a quote from the Attorney General in letters like this...

    Something like,


    Even the Attorney General of Virginia has observed the foolishness of such policies, recently writing in an official opinion, "It certainly can be argued that such policies are ineffectual because persons who wish to perpetrate violence will ignore them, and that the net effect of such policies is to leave defenseless the law-abiding citizens who follow these policies."


    Can't hurt...

    TFred
    Why not send something like that to them via their website?

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    Don't take their word at face value.

    Clark County tried the same bull-iferication on us a few years back. Unsuccessfully I might add.

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    I just sent an e-mail to the clerk of the court to find out the owner of the property since I cannot find online records for the property info. Will advise when I get a reply.

    E-mail bounced back to me, but I'm out of time to do anything. Anyone else feel free to take a whack at this.
    Last edited by jmelvin; 07-13-2011 at 03:29 PM.

  25. #25
    Regular Member Marco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jmelvin View Post
    Why not send something like that to them via their website?



    Just did.

    Regarding your anti rights, anti freedom and anti personal defense policy:

    The Attorney General of Virginia has observed the foolishness of such policies, recently writing in an official opinion, "It certainly can be argued that such policies are ineffectual because persons who wish to perpetrate violence will ignore them, and that the net effect of such policies is to leave defenseless the law-abiding citizens who follow these policies."


    You can keep your policy and I'll keep my money and will encourage others to do the same.


    Respectfully,
    Marco



    Ps.
    I'll swing by either thur or fri (OC'ing of course) to see if it is posted at the entrance and to see if they deny me entry.
    If you think like a Statist, act like one, or back some, you've given up on freedom and have gone over to the dark side.
    The easiest ex. but probably the most difficult to grasp for gun owners is that fool permission slip so many of you have, especially if you show it off with pride. You should recognize it as an embarrassment, an infringement, a travesty and an affront to a free person.


    ~Alan Korwin

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