M
McX
Guest
nice tiger hat dude! i want one! floating kitties is only one of my talents, i can also make cheeseburgers, and 1911's disappear into thin air!
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Instructors Run Rampant In Wisconsin!!!
- Thread starter CalicoJack10
- Start date
nice tiger hat dude! i want one! floating kitties is only one of my talents, i can also make cheeseburgers, and 1911's disappear into thin air!
Lurchiron
Regular Member
That's why my Kimber comes standard with a lanyard hole...to prevent its loss due to floating felines, ambling about on magic carpeted cheeseburgers
. View attachment 6304
M
McX
Guest
That's why my Kimber comes standard with a lanyard hole...to prevent its loss due to floating felines, ambling about on magic carpeted cheeseburgers
View attachment 6304
curses! foiled again!
MKEgal
Regular Member
What, no hot naked male instructors? C'mon!
I was going to say that shooting naked would make for more brass burns, but I guess it really wouldn't, since there's no place it can get trapped.
It might, however, make for more NDs since people are likely to be distracted.
So I guess the safety argument comes out in favor of clothing. The aesthetics, however...
There are people who should generally wear clothes when around others, & there are people whom it's quite pleasant to see without clothes (or with very little clothing). The problem is when people in the first group get themselves confused & think they're in the second.
(OK, I just opened the PDF of the bill & put in the correct page # to go to the 'training' section. [Pg. 8] Didn't have to think about it. I've spent too much time looking at that bill.)Support The 2nd said:
So: 175.60 (4)(a) Requires a copy of a document showing completion of one of:
(1)
a) hunter's safety
b) a firearms safety or training course by a nat'l or state org. that certifies firearms instructors
c) a FSorTC for the public by a LEA; OR by a school, if the instructor @ the school is certified by a nat'l or state org that CFI
d) a FSorTC for LEO or private security or detective agencies
e) a FSorTC by an instructor who is certified by the DOJ or by a nat'l or state org that CFI
(2) military, LE, or security training substantially equivalent to #1.
(3) LTCF from any state, county, or municipality (unless it was revoked for cause)
(4) military small-arms training
So yes, it does repeatedly say "firearms instructors". Darn.
That would have been even more fun to argue through a court challenge than the MD class.
Not worth the hassle, but interesting.
And yes, it's reasonably specific about what types of training are acceptable.
I'd like to see someone just turning 21 use their Eddie Eagle certificate from 2nd grade to get a permit.
There would have to be a ruling on something like that, but I think it would qualify. Isn't that a firearms safety course from a qualifying national org.?
Last edited:
XDFDE45
Regular Member
Maybe we can hire this guy
.
[video=youtube;k-rGnMKszxg]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k-rGnMKszxg[/video]
[video=youtube;k-rGnMKszxg]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k-rGnMKszxg[/video]
IcrewUH60
Regular Member
Maybe we can hire this guy.
[video=youtube;k-rGnMKszxg]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k-rGnMKszxg[/video]
I would, execpt one fatal flaw in his tecnique.... he has a potty mouth :lol:
I would prefer to get my training from someone a little more "professional"
[video=youtube_share;am-Qdx6vky0]http://youtu.be/am-Qdx6vky0[/video]
Last edited:
CalicoJack10
Regular Member
Actually, it also says any course offered by by an instructor certified by a national certifying agency. For that purpose, any course offered by an NRA certified instructor, including those that are not NRA courses, will qualify you for the permit. Granted that is tentative based on the bill that was signed, but it should work. Thats why there is such a rash of people offering BS courses to encourage people to carry a firearm asap without the proper training. That is why the course that I teach to civillians is the exact same one as I teach to LEOs and Military. To cover all my bases.
davegran
Regular Member
M
McX
Guest
the ads are still up around the area gas stations, and still in the local rag- regular like now. Hurry! Classes filling up!
i'm going to mutiny on them, and put up Auric's training class 'round if i can get away with it on the ask- at least they'd be getting something they could actually use, more than a first step, but not the end of the show. Better buy for the buck- in my opinion (snarf).
i'm going to mutiny on them, and put up Auric's training class 'round if i can get away with it on the ask- at least they'd be getting something they could actually use, more than a first step, but not the end of the show. Better buy for the buck- in my opinion (snarf).
GLOCK21GB
Campaign Veteran
The NRA basic courses are just that Basic ( intended for the person who has never handled a gun before ) yes they will qualify you for the WI ccw permit but the AACFI classes teach everything you get in the NRA class plus alot more Legal instruction, stuff you might get at LETHAL FORCE INSTITUTE taught by Massad Ayoob..that's what sets AACFI apart from the NRA classes.
CalicoJack10
Regular Member
Come on now, have you even seen the posts I have been putting up. I have said all of this a thousand times. Especially in the "Picking a fight about training" thread. Except the AAFCI part. I still find some flaws with what they teach, but wach instructor has their own way of doing things. I am not saying their training is not great training, because it is. It is just different than what I teach.
M
McX
Guest
SearchSiteWebYellow Pages
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Homepage > Milwaukee News
Gun Safety Instructor Reports Steady Enrollment
Courses Mandated For Concealed Carry Expect Heavy Enrollment in First Year
POSTED: 8:17 pm CDT July 13, 2011
UPDATED: 10:30 pm CDT July 13, 2011
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GRAFTON, Wis. -- The passage of Wisconsin's concealed carry law has brought people to one training program by the hundreds.
Scott Bretl of the training company Just Carry said the rush came as no surprise to him.
"When the state did a study they thought that about 100,000 people would get their permit the first year. The studies I've seen with other states that's about the general indication that about 6 percent of the population would get a permit," said Bretl.
On Wednesday night Bretl's class was full as are eight other classes of his between now and the fall.
"We have, as of right now, about 800 people signed up for our classes," said Bretl.
Under the state's new concealed carry law, people wanting to carry a conceal weapon must take a safety course and get a permit.
According to Bretl people are taking the course for a number of reasons. He said a majority of the people he has spoken to say they won't carry a weapon on a regular basis.
SuzAnne Brandon attended Bretl's class in Grafton on Wednesday.
She said she was an avid hunter but she wanted to take the class for her own protection.
"Just to feel safe. There's so much out there. Too many people that carry guns illegally. This way I'll be legal and be able to protect myself," said Brandon.
Bretl charges $125 for his 4-hour courses.
Hot Topics:
Like WISN 12 On Facebook
|
July 12 Election Results
|
Gas Tracker
As Seen On WISN
Homepage > Milwaukee News
Gun Safety Instructor Reports Steady Enrollment
Courses Mandated For Concealed Carry Expect Heavy Enrollment in First Year
POSTED: 8:17 pm CDT July 13, 2011
UPDATED: 10:30 pm CDT July 13, 2011
[EMAIL: Gun Safety Instructor Reports Steady Enrollment] Email [PRINT: Gun Safety Instructor Reports Steady Enrollment] Print
[COMMENTS: Gun Safety Instructor Reports Steady Enrollment] Comments
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GRAFTON, Wis. -- The passage of Wisconsin's concealed carry law has brought people to one training program by the hundreds.
Scott Bretl of the training company Just Carry said the rush came as no surprise to him.
"When the state did a study they thought that about 100,000 people would get their permit the first year. The studies I've seen with other states that's about the general indication that about 6 percent of the population would get a permit," said Bretl.
On Wednesday night Bretl's class was full as are eight other classes of his between now and the fall.
"We have, as of right now, about 800 people signed up for our classes," said Bretl.
Under the state's new concealed carry law, people wanting to carry a conceal weapon must take a safety course and get a permit.
According to Bretl people are taking the course for a number of reasons. He said a majority of the people he has spoken to say they won't carry a weapon on a regular basis.
SuzAnne Brandon attended Bretl's class in Grafton on Wednesday.
She said she was an avid hunter but she wanted to take the class for her own protection.
"Just to feel safe. There's so much out there. Too many people that carry guns illegally. This way I'll be legal and be able to protect myself," said Brandon.
Bretl charges $125 for his 4-hour courses.
jpm84092
Regular Member
The Yellow Cat With The M-4 Weighs In
Once again I must commend Calico Jack 10 on his sage advice. Not all firearms instructors are created equal and not all courses are created equal. Having said that, at least a Firearms Instructor who is Certified by the NRA with at least a Pistol Discipline rating will be teaching courses that are taught the same way nationwide. Keep in mind that NRA First Steps, Pistol, is designed for the person who has never handled a firearm before. It is a basic bare-bones introduction to handguns and basic firearm safety. The NRA Basic Pistol Course is a basic firearms familiarity and safety course that does at least get a minimum level of competency at a range, but is designed with the novice shooter, or only marginally effective shooter in mind.
NRA only offers two tactical personal protection courses, Personal Protection In The Home (best for those who really want to know how to defend their home), and NRA Personal Protection Outside the Home (same as inside the home, but with emphasis on cover and concealment in an outdoor setting). NRA Instructors who hold these ratings are much harder to find than the basic NRA Instructor. To take PPITH or PPOTH the student must first have completed the NRA Basic Pistol Course. During the personal protection courses, we introduce students to the "double tap" method of firing a handgun (two shots to the Center of Mass made in rapid succession). We do so initially from a static position and then progress to doing so while the student is moving (and if we can get the right equipment, the target is moving).
Jack also makes good sense when he recommends that members of WI Carry ask other members of WI Carry to rate an instructor if they have taken a course from him/her. I invite members of WI Carry who are reading my forum contributions to ask MKE GAL or McX, or many others about the level of my own competency and quality as an instructor as these individuals have taken courses from me. (My UT CFP course uses the NRA Pistol Slides to teach firearms familiarity and firearms safety. Some students went on to do the range work and earn the NRA Certificate.) Indeed, I ask all members of WI Carry to post their experiences with Firearms Instructors so that other members can know who is competent and who is marginal. This is particularly important for those who want to take tactical training.
My friends (and former neighbors), all manner of "instructors" will come out of the woodwork now that SB-93 has been signed by the Governor and is scheduled for publishing. I join with Calico Jack 10 and the other Firearms Instructor who posted on this forum in recommending that you accept nothing less than National Accreditation (NRA or LEO) and proof that your new instructor is Certified to train in defensive tactics (if you elect for tactical training). I am embarrassed to tell you how many folks I have taught to shoot, who, at first told me they had been in Delta Force, a Green Beret, or a member of Seal Team 6.
Bottom Line For Instructors - 1) National Accreditation (NRA or LEO) and ask to see their Certificates (I always present mine for inspection at the start of a course I teach). AND - 2) For tactical defensive training, a trail of documentation that shows their competency (NRA Personal Protection Rating, or equiv.)
I also agree with Calico Jack that nearly any course taught by a Firearms Instructor Certified by the National Rifle Association will be "good to go" in Wisconsin. Having said that, I ask members of WI Carry to consider opting for more than the "minimum level" of training. Is the safety of you and your family dependent on being "on the cheap"? Cheap is OK if it is good training offered at discount prices for WI Carry members, NRA Members, or members of the Military and their families. Those of you who have taken courses from me before know I offer a layered level of discounts based on Military Service and membership in WI Carry.
Carry On Wisconsin - Proudly Carry On.
Once again I must commend Calico Jack 10 on his sage advice. Not all firearms instructors are created equal and not all courses are created equal. Having said that, at least a Firearms Instructor who is Certified by the NRA with at least a Pistol Discipline rating will be teaching courses that are taught the same way nationwide. Keep in mind that NRA First Steps, Pistol, is designed for the person who has never handled a firearm before. It is a basic bare-bones introduction to handguns and basic firearm safety. The NRA Basic Pistol Course is a basic firearms familiarity and safety course that does at least get a minimum level of competency at a range, but is designed with the novice shooter, or only marginally effective shooter in mind.
NRA only offers two tactical personal protection courses, Personal Protection In The Home (best for those who really want to know how to defend their home), and NRA Personal Protection Outside the Home (same as inside the home, but with emphasis on cover and concealment in an outdoor setting). NRA Instructors who hold these ratings are much harder to find than the basic NRA Instructor. To take PPITH or PPOTH the student must first have completed the NRA Basic Pistol Course. During the personal protection courses, we introduce students to the "double tap" method of firing a handgun (two shots to the Center of Mass made in rapid succession). We do so initially from a static position and then progress to doing so while the student is moving (and if we can get the right equipment, the target is moving).
Jack also makes good sense when he recommends that members of WI Carry ask other members of WI Carry to rate an instructor if they have taken a course from him/her. I invite members of WI Carry who are reading my forum contributions to ask MKE GAL or McX, or many others about the level of my own competency and quality as an instructor as these individuals have taken courses from me. (My UT CFP course uses the NRA Pistol Slides to teach firearms familiarity and firearms safety. Some students went on to do the range work and earn the NRA Certificate.) Indeed, I ask all members of WI Carry to post their experiences with Firearms Instructors so that other members can know who is competent and who is marginal. This is particularly important for those who want to take tactical training.
My friends (and former neighbors), all manner of "instructors" will come out of the woodwork now that SB-93 has been signed by the Governor and is scheduled for publishing. I join with Calico Jack 10 and the other Firearms Instructor who posted on this forum in recommending that you accept nothing less than National Accreditation (NRA or LEO) and proof that your new instructor is Certified to train in defensive tactics (if you elect for tactical training). I am embarrassed to tell you how many folks I have taught to shoot, who, at first told me they had been in Delta Force, a Green Beret, or a member of Seal Team 6.
Bottom Line For Instructors - 1) National Accreditation (NRA or LEO) and ask to see their Certificates (I always present mine for inspection at the start of a course I teach). AND - 2) For tactical defensive training, a trail of documentation that shows their competency (NRA Personal Protection Rating, or equiv.)
I also agree with Calico Jack that nearly any course taught by a Firearms Instructor Certified by the National Rifle Association will be "good to go" in Wisconsin. Having said that, I ask members of WI Carry to consider opting for more than the "minimum level" of training. Is the safety of you and your family dependent on being "on the cheap"? Cheap is OK if it is good training offered at discount prices for WI Carry members, NRA Members, or members of the Military and their families. Those of you who have taken courses from me before know I offer a layered level of discounts based on Military Service and membership in WI Carry.
Carry On Wisconsin - Proudly Carry On.
CalicoJack10
Regular Member
So does that mean the fact that I have taught military and Specwar men and women does not qualify me based on the idea that it is not the PPITH or PPOTH, or the equivilant? What about the untold amount of hours studying and practicing and testing to help design courses that were functional for people in the real world?
I am NRA certified, but that is just for recognition for the non resident permits in states that require that or similar. I could go on for days about the practicality and shortfalls of the NRA Personal Protection courses, because they are good basic firearms courses, but are rarely effectine or reliable in the real world of self defense. The NRA does amazing basic courses, but the truth is that they are designed to press people into a mold, and when it comes to defensive firearms, trying to fit into that mold can get you killed, not to mention can cause you to accidentally kill someone innocent (even someone you care about).
I feel the need to say again and again, the reason that I encourage people, just like the reason I became a firearms instructor, is to save lives. NOT TO MAKE MONEY!!!!!
jpm84092
Regular Member
Hey Calico - lighten up. I would say your previous experience and ability to teach is equal to and indeed superior to the PPITH or PPOTH NRA Courses. I was trying to reinforce your position, not attack it. My point was to tell WI Carry members to select instructors based on their verifiable credentials, the referral of other members of WI Carry, and not just the undocumented claims of the host of new "Instructors" your original post was directed at. In no way did I mean to convey that your previous experiences and competency were sub-par. Indeed, every post I have made on this forum has been in support of your abilities and potentials as a Firearms Instructor.
My friend, I have never once attacked or questioned your credentials, experience, or expertise. Please read my posts more carefully next time. And, try to remember that I am the UT CFP Instructor who told you I would give you the UT CFP course for free, and would feed and house you for free, if you came to SLC and would go on to get your UT CFP Instructor Rating and offer the UT CFP Course to WI Carry members at a discount.
The leo claimed it was clear, and the guy in the corner also checked the firearm. Looks like he released the slide, put a round in the pipe, and the booger hook hit the bang stick. Glad he is professional. What could have happened without the Leo training?
CalicoJack10
Regular Member
I want to say this as clear as possible, so I will!
I don't like the way you present yourself, I don't like the way you promote basic training as a way to get as many people to carry as possible, I don't like the way you step on other people's toes, I don't like the way you jump on every thread to promote yourself as an instructor, I don't like the way you promote the idea that book learning will teach people how to defend and survive, I don't like the fact that you apparently don't think through what you say before you say it, I don't like the way you don't stand your ground for what you say.
There is far more to being an instructor the telling people what it says in a book. There is a reason that people who fail my courses come back to me for training, and that reason is that I am not pushing people to get permits, I am teaching people to live through a life or death situation.
I am not a fan of instructors who push for fame or money. If there is any question about that just take a look at any thread about Bender.
You may be a nice guy, and you may help people, and you may offer them "Training" according to the book. But the book won't teach people to keep from dieing, and it won't keep people from killing an innocent. I am generally a nice guy, and I treat people well until they step on my toes. But I am also a realist, and I know that teaching forearms for personal defense is not something that can be limited in any way. Thats exactly why my basic defensive firearms course teaches more than ANY of the NRA defensive firearms courses. That is also why people don't have a million questions when the course is over.
You want to get me to have a posative response to you, start teaching people how to live, and not what some book says.
dangerousman
Regular Member
Well it does specify "firearms instructors" but it would be funny if cooking instructors were included. Iron chef anyone?
dangerousman
Regular Member
Pretty remarkable statement coming from someone who seems to do just that at every opportunity. Not to mention continually dissing all other instructors and training programs without first hand knowledge of them. You criticized the NRA courses because they are one-size fits all courses, but then you say that you give the exact same training to police, military and civilians when everyone should know that there is a big difference in the needs of each of those groups.