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Thread: removing the purchase delay in WI law

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    Regular Member MKEgal's Avatar
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    removing the purchase delay in WI law

    Federal law about handgun purchases & WI law about handgun purchases are not the same.
    Since WI recently took the easy way out & decided to reference the federal "GF"SZ act instead of copying the words into its own law, I think we need to do the same with another provision of the gun control code, specifically the 48-hour waiting period.

    Here's part of the applicable federal law:
    http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/ht...2----000-.html
    (t)
    (1) ... [A] licensed dealer shall not transfer a firearm to any other person who is not licensed under this chapter, unless—

    (A) before the completion of the transfer, the licensee contacts the national instant criminal background check system established under section 103 of that Act;

    (B)
    (i) the system provides the licensee with a unique identification number; or

    (ii) 3 business days (meaning a day on which State offices are open) have elapsed since the licensee contacted the system, and the system has not notified the licensee that the receipt of a firearm by such other person would violate subsection (g) or (n) of this section; and

    (C) the transferor has verified the identity of the transferee by examining a valid identification document (as defined in section 1028 (d) of this title) of the transferee containing a photograph of the transferee.
    Note - what Federal law defines as acceptable documentation & what WI defines as acceptable documentation differs. I think that should change too.

    (3) Paragraph (1) shall not apply to a firearm transfer between a licensee and another person if—
    (A)
    (i) such other person has presented to the licensee a permit that—
    (I) allows such other person to possess or acquire a firearm; and

    (II) was issued not more than 5 years earlier by the State in which the transfer is to take place; and

    (ii) the law of the State provides that such a permit is to be issued only after an authorized government official has verified that the information available to such official does not indicate that possession of a firearm by such other person would be in violation of law.
    Or does the fact that WI doesn't issue a "permit to possess or acquire" as some more controlling states do render this moot?
    IMO, most states treat a cc permit as a "permit to possess or acquire".

  2. #2
    McX
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    it would be nice if they gave on this, we wasted the money got the permit, snob around in the school zones (gasp!), and we still get to wait 2 days?!

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    Founder's Club Member protias's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by McX View Post
    it would be nice if they gave on this, we wasted the money got the permit, snob around in the school zones (gasp!), and we still get to wait 2 days?!
    And pay the extra fee! I think I may start making my purchases in IN so I can take them back the same day, or is that not legal to do?
    No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms. Thomas Jefferson (1776)

    If you go into a store, with a gun, and rob it, you have forfeited your right to not get shot - Joe Deters, Hamilton County (Cincinnati) Prosecutor

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    Quote Originally Posted by protias View Post
    And pay the extra fee! I think I may start making my purchases in IN so I can take them back the same day, or is that not legal to do?
    As always when I'm not sure about something, I'm going to equivocate a bit...I'm 99% sure you can't buy a handgun in a state you're not a resident in. I haven't looked it up but I seem to recall something about being able to buy long guns in states that border the state you live in, but I'm less sure about that.

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    Regular Member littlewolf's Avatar
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    I'm waiting for a letter like this as soon as Act35 is published.
    Attached Files Attached Files
    Owner Little Wolf Firearms , US ARMY RETIRED 101st Airborne & 84th DIV TRNG Small arms instructor.
    Remember , Gun Control is " USING BOTH HANDS!"

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    Quote Originally Posted by Teej View Post
    As always when I'm not sure about something, I'm going to equivocate a bit...I'm 99% sure you can't buy a handgun in a state you're not a resident in. I haven't looked it up but I seem to recall something about being able to buy long guns in states that border the state you live in, but I'm less sure about that.
    I believe you are correct on the handguns, they need to be sent to an FFL of your choice.

    and long guns is at least correct for WI, I lived here as a Michigan resident for a year doing contract work before my position became permanent, and I bought a rem 700, and an AR Lower, was explained from dealer that WI will sell to neighboring states

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    Quote Originally Posted by protias View Post
    And pay the extra fee! I think I may start making my purchases in IN so I can take them back the same day, or is that not legal to do?
    Unless you live in IN, you can't do it, I'm at work, but ill look for a cite ASAP.
    That being said eliminating the 48 hour wait would be awesome. I've said before, when I go to a gun store, I'm carrying a firearm 99.9% of the time. Why do I need to "cool off" if I already have a loaded firearm on my hip? With a permit, if its valid you obviously passed a background check... Some peoples kids... Ill look for the cite now.
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    "for any person (other than a licensed importer, licensed
    manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector) to
    transfer, sell, trade, give, transport, or deliver any firearm to
    any person (other than a licensed importer, licensed
    manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector) who the
    transferor knows or has reasonable cause to believe does not
    reside in (or if the person is a corporation or other business
    entity, does not maintain a place of business in) the State in
    which the transferor resides; except that this paragraph shall
    not apply to (A) the transfer, transportation, or delivery of a
    firearm made to carry out a bequest of a firearm to, or an
    acquisition by intestate succession of a firearm by, a person who
    is permitted to acquire or possess a firearm under the laws of
    the State of his residence, and (B) the loan or rental of a
    firearm to any person for temporary use for lawful sporting
    purposes;"

    Full text found here:
    "I don't really care for "cream cheese"..."

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    "I don't really care for "cream cheese"..."

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    Quote Originally Posted by littlewolf View Post
    I'm waiting for a letter like this as soon as Act35 is published.
    Kansas passed a CC law several years ago. ATF just got around to notifying FFLs in KS that the Brady Law "exempts" CC permitees from a NICS check... it'll happen here too, eventually. But I don't believe this will effect the 48 hr wait on handguns. That's a state law. But when buying a rifle or shotgun, a WI CC permit will negate the need for the "phone call".

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    Quote Originally Posted by Teej View Post
    As always when I'm not sure about something, I'm going to equivocate a bit...I'm 99% sure you can't buy a handgun in a state you're not a resident in. I haven't looked it up but I seem to recall something about being able to buy long guns in states that border the state you live in, but I'm less sure about that.
    You're mostly correct on handguns. If you would like to buy one from another state, I think you have to have the seller transfer it to an FFL in your state, who will then sell it to you (I'm not sure; but, if the seller is a private seller, it may have to go from seller to seller's-state FFL to buyer's-state FFL to you). All that assumes that neither state objects (think New York, for example).

    As for long guns, that used to be true. I think that was the case for the original Gun Control Act of 1968. In it, long guns could be purchased from contiguous states if BOTH states specifically had a statute which allowed contiguous-state purchase. The Firearm Owners Protection Act removed this provision. Now, long guns may be purchased in any state by residents of any state as long as both states don't specifically prohibit it. Please note that a few states still have the "contiguous state" purchase statutes on their books. For that matter, Florida and a couple of others repealed this law just this year. Until then, Florida residents could purchase only from Alabama, Georgia, and Mississippi; and only residents from Mississippi, Alabama, and Georgia could purchase from Florida.

    Disclaimer: Although I plan to be one, I am not a lawyer.
    "Eternal vigilance is the price of liberty."
    "All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing."
    "They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." Ben Franklin

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nascar24Glock View Post
    You're mostly correct on handguns. If you would like to buy one from another state, I think you have to have the seller transfer it to an FFL in your state, who will then sell it to you (I'm not sure; but, if the seller is a private seller, it may have to go from seller to seller's-state FFL to buyer's-state FFL to you). All that assumes that neither state objects (think New York, for example).
    Well yeah, that's obvious - that's how you can buy a gun from another state over the net - ship to your FFL.

    He was talking about trying to walk into a store in IN and buy one. If you have to ship it, the ship time (and the fact that the local FFL still has to wait 2 days to transfer it to you) defeat his whole purpose.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nascar24Glock View Post
    You're mostly correct on handguns. If you would like to buy one from another state, I think you have to have the seller transfer it to an FFL in your state, who will then sell it to you (I'm not sure; but, if the seller is a private seller, it may have to go from seller to seller's-state FFL to buyer's-state FFL to you). All that assumes that neither state objects (think New York, for example).

    As for long guns, that used to be true. I think that was the case for the original Gun Control Act of 1968. In it, long guns could be purchased from contiguous states if BOTH states specifically had a statute which allowed contiguous-state purchase. The Firearm Owners Protection Act removed this provision. Now, long guns may be purchased in any state by residents of any state as long as both states don't specifically prohibit it. Please note that a few states still have the "contiguous state" purchase statutes on their books. For that matter, Florida and a couple of others repealed this law just this year. Until then, Florida residents could purchase only from Alabama, Georgia, and Mississippi; and only residents from Mississippi, Alabama, and Georgia could purchase from Florida.

    Disclaimer: Although I plan to be one, I am not a lawyer.
    You are correct sir .
    Owner Little Wolf Firearms , US ARMY RETIRED 101st Airborne & 84th DIV TRNG Small arms instructor.
    Remember , Gun Control is " USING BOTH HANDS!"

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    Quote Originally Posted by safcrkr View Post
    Kansas passed a CC law several years ago. ATF just got around to notifying FFLs in KS that the Brady Law "exempts" CC permitees from a NICS check... it'll happen here too, eventually. But I don't believe this will effect the 48 hr wait on handguns. That's a state law. But when buying a rifle or shotgun, a WI CC permit will negate the need for the "phone call".
    Another thing about the 48 hour wait on a hand gun, long guns are not required to have a wait. How is it really different? If the "reason" is handguns can be concealed, so can a long gun.
    "I don't really care for "cream cheese"..."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mlutz View Post
    Another thing about the 48 hour wait on a hand gun, long guns are not required to have a wait. How is it really different? If the "reason" is handguns can be concealed, so can a long gun.
    It's probably using the same logic that prohibits those of us in the 18-20 age group from purchasing handguns or handgun ammunition from an FFL. However, we're still allowed to buy long guns and long gun ammo at age 18 from an FFL. Although, we can still acquire handguns and handgun ammo legally from private sources if our state doesn't object. Go figure ........
    "Eternal vigilance is the price of liberty."
    "All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing."
    "They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." Ben Franklin

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nascar24Glock View Post
    It's probably using the same logic that prohibits those of us in the 18-20 age group from purchasing handguns or handgun ammunition from an FFL. However, we're still allowed to buy long guns and long gun ammo at age 18 from an FFL. Although, we can still acquire handguns and handgun ammo legally from private sources if our state doesn't object. Go figure ........
    No waiting period, and its legal. The wow factor in the laws are endless. Gander mountain won't sell handgun ammo to anyone under 21. F&F (a place I will never go again) will sell handgun ammo to 18 year olds.
    What about an 18 year old buying 40 s&w ammo from gander, for a carbine? Lol.
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    Regular Member MKEgal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nascar24Glock
    If you would like to buy one from another state, I think you have to have the seller transfer it to an FFL in your state, who will then sell it to you.
    True, except that the home-state FFL isn't purchasing it from the OOS seller, s/he is just transferring it. You bought the thing, you paid the OOS seller (whether private or FFL).

    (I'm not sure; but, if the seller is a private seller, it may have to go from seller to seller's-state FFL to buyer's-state FFL to you).
    No, they don't need to involve an FFL in their state, at least not by federal law.
    Some states may have different rules.
    Last edited by MKEgal; 07-14-2011 at 01:31 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mlutz View Post
    No waiting period, and its legal. The wow factor in the laws are endless. Gander mountain won't sell handgun ammo to anyone under 21. F&F (a place I will never go again) will sell handgun ammo to 18 year olds.
    What about an 18 year old buying 40 s&w ammo from gander, for a carbine? Lol.
    I remember back in michigan at walmart they started asking if it was for a pistol or rifle, if you said pistol, you had to prove you are 21+, if you said rifle you only had to be 18+, the people behind the counter didnt know either way

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    Quote Originally Posted by apierce918 View Post
    I remember back in michigan at walmart they started asking if it was for a pistol or rifle, if you said pistol, you had to prove you are 21+, if you said rifle you only had to be 18+, the people behind the counter didnt know either way
    That seems fair... Lol.
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    Regular Member Tom Maassen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mlutz View Post
    That seems fair... Lol.
    Fair, however still shocking. If they are working that counter, they need to be trained, period. Tactical shotguns have pistol grips. Does that make them a handgun, or is it still a shotgun? Training will teach the differences. The customer can always still lie. Buy as you pointed out, buying .40 S&W for a carbine would/should bring up a red flag to someone whose trained.

    Yes, it's Wal-Mart so you can't expect a lot from them. Not to bash the employees (not my intent at all), but Wal-Mart is not exactly known for there training in anything. The 17 year old kid running the paint department barely knows the difference between a brush and a roller. The guy in home and garden has never mowed or fertilized a lawn in his life. So the odds of anyone in the gun department knowing the difference between rifle and pistol ammo is not expected to be high.

    On a side note, do you have to be 18 to sell ammo? I know you have to be 18 to serve liquor, but I've never seen anything that states the same thing for ammo sales.
    Last edited by Tom Maassen; 07-14-2011 at 07:39 AM.
    A criminal can have a gun, so why can't I?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Maassen View Post
    Fair, however still shocking. If they are working that counter, they need to be trained, period. Tactical shotguns have pistol grips. Does that make them a handgun, or is it still a shotgun? Training will teach the differences. The customer can always still lie. Buy as you pointed out, buying .40 S&W for a carbine would/should bring up a red flag to someone whose trained.

    Yes, it's Wal-Mart so you can't expect a lot from them. Not to bash the employees (not my intent at all), but Wal-Mart is not exactly known for there training in anything. The 17 year old kid running the paint department barely knows the difference between a brush and a roller. The guy in home and garden has never mowed or fertilized a lawn in his life. So the odds of anyone in the gun department knowing the difference between rifle and pistol ammo is not expected to be high.

    On a side note, do you have to be 18 to sell ammo? I know you have to be 18 to serve liquor, but I've never seen anything that states the same thing for ammo sales.
    If it is designed or redisigned to be fired from one hand, it is a handgun...
    Bring up a red flag? Why?
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  22. #22
    Regular Member Tom Maassen's Avatar
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    Well, maybe not a red flag, but should at least raise an eyebrow. Wal-mart doesn't stock that much ammo (at least the one by me).

    Click image for larger version. 

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    hehehe my new CC piece.
    A criminal can have a gun, so why can't I?

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  23. #23
    McX
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Maassen View Post
    Well, maybe not a red flag, but should at least raise an eyebrow. Wal-mart doesn't stock that much ammo (at least the one by me).

    Click image for larger version. 

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    hehehe my new CC piece.
    found an application for your new CC piece, works for me!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5DZ6NYPPoQc

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    Founder's Club Member protias's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Maassen View Post
    Fair, however still shocking. If they are working that counter, they need to be trained, period. Tactical shotguns have pistol grips. Does that make them a handgun, or is it still a shotgun? Training will teach the differences. The customer can always still lie. Buy as you pointed out, buying .40 S&W for a carbine would/should bring up a red flag to someone whose trained.

    Yes, it's Wal-Mart so you can't expect a lot from them. Not to bash the employees (not my intent at all), but Wal-Mart is not exactly known for there training in anything. The 17 year old kid running the paint department barely knows the difference between a brush and a roller. The guy in home and garden has never mowed or fertilized a lawn in his life. So the odds of anyone in the gun department knowing the difference between rifle and pistol ammo is not expected to be high.

    On a side note, do you have to be 18 to sell ammo? I know you have to be 18 to serve liquor, but I've never seen anything that states the same thing for ammo sales.
    Kriss Super V, Beretta PX4 Storm, and H&K MP5 (just a few examples, I know there are many more) all use pistol rounds, even though they are rifles. .410 can be used in a handgun, rifle, or shotgun. Oh no, what do we do now?!
    No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms. Thomas Jefferson (1776)

    If you go into a store, with a gun, and rob it, you have forfeited your right to not get shot - Joe Deters, Hamilton County (Cincinnati) Prosecutor

    I ask sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people except for a few politicians. - George Mason (father of the Bill of Rights and The Virginia Declaration of Rights)

  25. #25
    Regular Member Tom Maassen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by protias View Post
    Oh no, what do we do now?!
    That's exactly my point! Reading back, my original post wasn't worded correctly to get my point across, and I apologize for that.

    What makes rifle and pistol ammo different? According to Wikipedia, a handgun can chamber anything for the 2.34 mm all the way up to a .577 Boxer round, and that's before some of the really fun guns that chamber 30-30, .458 Winchester, or even the .600 Nitro (God help your wrist after pulling that trigger).

    9mm is becoming a popular rifle too. I've seen a couple around the club, and they look pretty fun to shoot. So who makes the final call on the difference?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_handgun_cartridges
    A criminal can have a gun, so why can't I?

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