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Thread: OC as a tool to protect our communities

  1. #1
    Regular Member Freedom First's Avatar
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    OC as a tool to protect our communities

    I just posted this on a non-OC forum. They were discussing OC from the typical CC POV and I wanted to give them a different, non-personal idea for the benefits of OC. Enjoy.

    Original post: "But, why give the BGs any warning? Carry concealed and don't let them know about it until they're staring down the muzzle."

    Let's say you live in a nice community that is slowly being overrun by criminals from other areas. These criminals bring with them crime and a slow destruction of your community. They feel safe because there is little crime other than that which they bring themselves as they prey on you and yours. So, you sit and watch your community slowly degrades into a third world war zone.

    But, seeing the problem, you decide to get a gun and a license from the state to carry it hidden on your person. So, now you're safe, right? Maybe. For now. And let's say that 1% of your community does the same. But here's the rub, the criminal sees none of this. They are unaware of the person or people in the nice community who have just decided to defend themselves because those very people, who see the problem and are willing to defend themselves, hide their firearms. So, end result: no real change for the community. Sure, a CCer might get to blow away a BG and that would make the news, but would the criminals really feel that unsafe that they will leave the nice community?

    Let's look at another option. Instead of hiding your gun on your person and hoping to get to "suprise" the BGs, you openly carry that firearm. What changes? What if in your community, 1% began to OC? Would the BGs feel safe and welcome? Everywhere they look, they see someone who at best is an armed citizen or at worst is an off-duty police officer. Do they stay or look for greener pastures?
    Freedom can never be lost, only given away by ignorance, by choice, or at the point of a gun. Here in America we can still choose.

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    Founder's Club Member thebigsd's Avatar
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    Good points. As I said on another thread, visible deterrents are much more effective than invisible ones.
    "When seconds count between living or dying, the police are only minutes away."

  3. #3
    Regular Member Freedom First's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thebigsd View Post
    Good points. As I said on another thread, visible deterrents are much more effective than invisible ones.
    I'm suggesting actually pushing this as a tool for LE. (EDIT: Maybe I said this wrong in using the term LE. Perhaps the term "Law abiding communities" would be more appropriate. It's closer to what I meant.) If LE could get over their distaste for other humans having openly carried firearms, the armed citizen would be an excellent crime prevention tool added to LE's (EDIT: a law abiding community's) toolbox.

    Too often the LE vs OC conflict is based on ignorance and contempt. What if the two could work together? Like the posse from the "old days"? A Deputy and 25 openly carrying, deputized citizens patrolling a crime infested neighborhood? I think it would make an impression.
    Last edited by Freedom First; 07-15-2011 at 04:01 AM. Reason: Clarification
    Freedom can never be lost, only given away by ignorance, by choice, or at the point of a gun. Here in America we can still choose.

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    Regular Member hermannr's Avatar
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    Freedom First! I think (remember not all LEOs have this problem) that the reason some LEOs do not like to see joe citizen OC, is they want to belong to an "Exclusive" "club".

    I have been on a couple LEO dominated forums and the reaction of those "some" is: "Pay your dues, go to the Academy and get heired as a LEO yourself, THEN you can OC like real LEOs do". It is "Das Ich" (an ego) thing. They seem to think those that OC are LEO "wannabees".

    I am very fortunate up here in Okanogan Co. I have not seen one LEO with that type attitude in any of the variuous Law enforcement forces up here. I have a feeling most of them prefer the big city to having to deal with us country folk.
    Last edited by hermannr; 07-14-2011 at 01:38 AM.

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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Although it is an unintended consequence, I do not OC as a community crime deterrent.

    I OC because it is easier than digging around trying to get a cover garment out of the way, and hauling a frame up out of the way of my spare tire (Hey! I am in shape - round is the most perfect shape there is!).

    I have absolutely no desire to effect the crime statistics of anybody or anywhere that is not me and where I am right now. Never wanted to be a cop and never wanted to play one on TV.

    As far as I'm oncerned, if my OCing reduces the crime rate then I think I ought to get paid for doing that. Obviously not a full cop's salary, but maybe something approaching minimum wage? Otherwise, as I said, the only crime reduction I care about is keeping me from being a victim. Going around claiming that the fact that I OC has reduced crime in the neighborhood is too much like bragging about something I did not actually do.
    YMMV.

    stay safe.

  6. #6
    Regular Member Freedom First's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    ... Going around claiming that the fact that I OC has reduced crime in the neighborhood is too much like bragging about something I did not actually do...
    I'm only suggesting the idea that OC in significant numbers would change the environment for those seeking to live a criminal life. Not claiming anything, just throwing something out there for discussion.

    Personally I see one man OCing with a firearm as an excellent aberration, it's when OC becomes commonplace behavior that a change in the community would have taken place.
    Last edited by Freedom First; 07-15-2011 at 04:05 AM.
    Freedom can never be lost, only given away by ignorance, by choice, or at the point of a gun. Here in America we can still choose.

    Freedom First 1775

    "I aim to misbehave..." Malcolm Reynolds

  7. #7
    Regular Member Freedom First's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hermannr View Post
    Freedom First! I think (remember not all LEOs have this problem) that the reason some LEOs do not like to see joe citizen OC, is they want to belong to an "Exclusive" "club".

    I have been on a couple LEO dominated forums and the reaction of those "some" is: "Pay your dues, go to the Academy and get heired as a LEO yourself, THEN you can OC like real LEOs do". It is "Das Ich" (an ego) thing. They seem to think those that OC are LEO "wannabees".

    I am very fortunate up here in Okanogan Co. I have not seen one LEO with that type attitude in any of the variuous Law enforcement forces up here. I have a feeling most of them prefer the big city to having to deal with us country folk.
    I've read the same attitudes on the same sites. I have no desire to be a LEO and I have no personal need to be a "Sheepdog" for anyone's sheep other than my family in my daily actions. I carry to get myself and my family home safe at the end of the day, that's all. But...

    It's just that I see LE struggling to make a dent in the Mexican drug/gang crime here in the Tri-Cities, Yakima Valley and the Columbia Basin as a whole. LE here is doing the same things everyone else is and getting the same results.

    We need to change the rules on these criminals... It's what the first part of 2A is about. Read up on the role of the militia in the Colonies. Bearing arms in defense of your community is a Constitutionally and historically correct application of 2A but since I cannot name a single Sheriff or Chief who would put his rump on the line for this sort of idea, the only way it would work is if the actions were organic and citizen driven. It would be an interesting exercise in our Rights as Americans.
    Last edited by Freedom First; 07-15-2011 at 04:08 AM.
    Freedom can never be lost, only given away by ignorance, by choice, or at the point of a gun. Here in America we can still choose.

    Freedom First 1775

    "I aim to misbehave..." Malcolm Reynolds

  8. #8
    Regular Member hermannr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Freedom First View Post
    I've read the same attitudes on the same sites. I have no desire to be a LEO and I have no personal need to be a "Sheepdog" for anyone's sheep other than my family in my daily actions. I carry to get myself and my family home safe at the end of the day, that's all. But...

    It's just that I see LE struggling to make a dent in the Mexican drug/gang crime here in the Tri-Cities, Yakima Valley and the Columbia Basin as a whole. LE here is doing the same things everyone else is and getting the same results.

    We need to change the rules on these criminals... It's what the first part of 2A is about. Read up on the role of the militia in the Colonies. Bearing arms in defense of your community is a Constitutionally and historically correct application of 2A but since I cannot name a single Sheriff or Chief who would put his rump on the line for this sort of idea, the only way it would work is if the actions were organic and citizen driven. It would be an interesting exercise in our Rights as Americans.
    Well, the easiest, most effective way to get rid of the drug gang problem is to take the money out of it. Just like with prohibition creating a rum runner gang problem, so has the "war on drugs" created the drug gang problem. When you take a natural substance, and artifically inflate it's value 10,000%, someone is going to figure out how to put that extra money in Their pocket. Doesn't matter if you do so by making it illegal, or by taxing it...the effect is the same.

    It seems strange to me that the federal government figured out the XVIII ammendment was causing more problems than it solved, but they can't seem to see the same thing happening with their equally stupid "war on drugs". (unless the real reason is an excuse to remove some of our freedoms, for the "safety" of a police state.)
    Last edited by hermannr; 07-15-2011 at 11:20 AM.

  9. #9
    Regular Member Freedom First's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hermannr View Post
    ...(unless the real reason is an excuse to remove some of our freedoms, for the "safety" of a police state.)
    Come on, they wouldn't do that...
    Freedom can never be lost, only given away by ignorance, by choice, or at the point of a gun. Here in America we can still choose.

    Freedom First 1775

    "I aim to misbehave..." Malcolm Reynolds

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