Timeline for Act 35 (SB93) now that it has a published date

paul@paul-fisher.com · Jul 14, 2011

AaronS said:
I just got your (Paul) mail with the new Act 35, and have yet to do a full read.

So with this in mind, the little I did read looks like the park ban is over as of right now. Am I correct on this?? Can I (for the first time in three years) go to a park?
The park bans have been real bad for me, and my dog... I would love to be able to "feel safe" at the dog parks again...

Well, nothing important happens until 7/25. Looking quickly at the 1st post in the thread, I don't see anything about park carry. State park carry requires a permit so I assume it won't change 'till 11/1 and then you'd have to have a permit.

MKEgal · Jul 14, 2011

rcav8r said:
I see it to mean that you can't be harrassed for legally open carrying starting 7/25.
Of course, who's going to enforce this?

Since the bill says "effective the day after publication",
and it's being published the 22nd,
doesn't that mean the "OC is not DC" (& other parts) take effect Sat. the 23rd??

As for who's going to enforce it, well, it's a crime. A misdemeanor. So wouldn't the DA file charges?
(Or, at least, shouldn't it be the DA who files charges??)

apierce918 said:
DOJ needs to have applications designed by setpember, but they still wont accept them until after Nov 1st according to their website

I just looked at their website (http://www.doj.state.wi.us/) & they have a new graphic/link for the cc law.
This is the page it goes to: http://www.doj.state.wi.us/dles/cib/ConcealedCarry/ConcealedCarry.asp

A Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) section will be added here by August 1...
Applications for concealed carry licenses will be accepted beginning November 1, 2011 – the day the law becomes effective. No applications will be available before that date.

So they're just going to sit on them for 2 months?!?!? That decision needs to be changed.

:cuss:
OOS licensees would be able to carry concealed before WI residents can.
Isn't there something about "equal protection under the laws" in the Constitution?

Since the law says that until 01DEC they have 45 days to process applications, it makes no sense that they'd give themselves less time right up front, when they can logically expect the most applications, rather than spreading the load from SEP on.

And how can people exercise their privileges under the new law if the State won't issue the required permits?

It looks like the Dept. of Justice simply ignored section 100 which provided for earlier dates.

Technically, 175.60 (5) requires that the forms & permits be designed by 01SEP.
Says nothing about when they must make the applications available.
That's what needs to be changed. Now.
Sen.Galloway@legis.wisconsin.gov
govgeneral@wisconsin.gov

paul@paul-fisher.com · Jul 14, 2011

MKEgal said:
Since the bill says "effective the day after publication",
and it's being published the 22nd,
doesn't that mean the "OC is not DC" (& other parts) take effect Sat. the 23rd??

I believe it is the next business day, which should be Monday the 25th. Or is this one it could be any day except Sunday? I don't remember where to look.

davegran · Jul 14, 2011

MKEgal said:
....

And how can people exercise their privileges under the new law if the State won't issue the required permits?

It sounds like there is no justice from the Department of Justice....

MKEgal · Jul 14, 2011

MKEgal said:
Since the bill says "effective the day after publication",
and it's being published the 22nd,
doesn't that mean the "OC is not DC" (& other parts) take effect Sat. the 23rd??

paul said:
I believe it is the next business day, which should be Monday the 25th.
Or is this one it could be any day except Sunday? I don't remember where to look.

I was reading what it said, plain English meaning.
I thought if they meant "next business day" that's what it would have said.
Silly of me, I know. Why expect lawyers & legislators to do something the simple way?
Didn't even know that was an option, & don't know where to look to find out, other than maybe calling my elected reps, but aren't they on summer break?

I don't think it makes much of a difference anyway, since by now all LEA & LEO in the state know about both the AG memo and the new law, so even if someone was arrested today (for simply carrying) it wouldn't stick. Only difference is that the LEO can't be penalized until the 23rd or 25th.

Outdoorsman1 · Jul 14, 2011

So if they aer not accepting applications until Nov. 1st, and then they have the initial 45 day time frame to issue permits, then what.... MID DECEMBER.....??????

Wow.. I thought the amendments were confusing... Did not expect more confusion after the bill passed and was signed ...

Outdoorsman1

Edited....

Since the law says that until 01DEC they have 45 days to process applications, it makes no sense that they'd give themselves less time right up front, when they can logically expect the most applications, rather than spreading the load from SEP on.

Oh ok.. i got it now....

apjonas · Jul 14, 2011

The Legislature Did Not Intend This Result

MKEgal said:
Technically, 175.60 (5) requires that the forms & permits be designed by 01SEP.
Says nothing about when they must make the applications available.
That's what needs to be changed. Now.
Sen.Galloway@legis.wisconsin.gov
govgeneral@wisconsin.gov

It is implicit that once the forms are designed they should be made available. Otherwise DoJ could choose to never provide an application form and by extension a license. Since they must issue within 21 (or 45 days) of receiving a completed application. No application = No application submission = No license

Tom Maassen · Jul 14, 2011

I would think that they will start processing on Nov 1st, as the official start date. Makes no sense to simply discard all applications received before that days.

With my luck mine will show September 30th and I will never know it got pitched

NakedOne · Jul 14, 2011

Anyone have knowledge to where these applications would be accepted/processed? We could always show up first thing Nov. 1 to turn our application in. Paperwork in one hand, check/money order/cash in other....empty holster at side.

I would think this would make those applications first.

GlockRDH · Jul 14, 2011

I might be willing to take off hte morning of Nov. 1 to be able to personally hand in my money and form...i may just plan on doing that!

Tom Maassen · Jul 14, 2011

GlockRDH said:
I might be willing to take off hte morning of Nov. 1 to be able to personally hand in my money and form...i may just plan on doing that!

Hehehe. OC meet and greet, perhaps?

Nov 1 is on a Tuesday, so I will happily stand in line with you. I would assume some office in Madison, bit I'm hoping multiple offices in big cities will be accepting them (Green Bay, Milwaukee, etcetera )

oliverclotheshoff · Jul 15, 2011

GlockRDH said:
I might be willing to take off hte morning of Nov. 1 to be able to personally hand in my money and form...i may just plan on doing that!

i might take a vaca day and do the same

MKEgal · Jul 15, 2011

Hell froze over this morning...
I got a call from my Rep's office in response to an email I sent yesterday objecting to the DOJ (mis)interpretation of the legislature's clear intent.
Since I've been roundly ignored by my Sen. & Rep. for months, this was a shock.

He'd called DOJ & it's VanHollen who's the holdup here! :shocker:

:question: :exclaim:
Good ole JB reads the law to say that he shouldn't make apps available 'til the effective date, never mind why they'd need to be ready 2 months earlier than that... :banghead:

:cuss:

The staffer @ my rep's office is just as perplexed as the rest of us about why JB would throw away those 2 months of processing time, & agrees that the intent of the law is that apps be available to the public 01SEP, & permits issued ASAP after that.

He says that it would take an act of the Legislature to clarify that yes, they meant the apps to be available NLT 01SEP, but they're on summer break until 01SEP themselves.

The other option is to keep contacting our reps so JB gets lots of phone calls, and contact Sen. Galloway's office, and contact Walker (and maybe JB himself). Perhaps with some prodding from Walker & Galloway JB would come to see the error of his ways.

vermonter · Jul 17, 2011

WHERE does it say that after the publish date 7/25 that someone with an accepted out of state CCW CAN'T carry? I understand that the new applications for WI license will not be available before 11/1, but when the list is populated on the 25th it would seem to me that one could carry on an out of state license listed. Anyone have the exact wording that says the 11/1 date is for CCW WI res and Non-Res? I could not find such wording?

Teej · Jul 17, 2011

vermonter said:
WHERE does it say that after the publish date 7/25 that someone with an accepted out of state CCW CAN'T carry? I understand that the new applications for WI license will not be available before 11/1, but when the list is populated on the 25th it would seem to me that one could carry on an out of state license listed. Anyone have the exact wording that says the 11/1 date is for CCW WI res and Non-Res? I could not find such wording?

Because until 11/1, carrying a concealed weapon is still forbidden. The provisions allowing it don't "exist" until 11/1.

paul@paul-fisher.com · Jul 17, 2011

vermonter said:
WHERE does it say that after the publish date 7/25 that someone with an accepted out of state CCW CAN'T carry? I understand that the new applications for WI license will not be available before 11/1, but when the list is populated on the 25th it would seem to me that one could carry on an out of state license listed. Anyone have the exact wording that says the 11/1 date is for CCW WI res and Non-Res? I could not find such wording?

Because at this moment, 941.23 (concealed carry law) says:

Carrying concealed weapon. Any person excepta peace officer who goes armed with a concealed and dangerous
weapon is guilty of a Class A misdemeanor. Notwithstanding s.
939.22 (22), for purposes of this section, peace officer does not
include a commission warden who is not a state−certified commission
warden.

Notice, very few people can conceal, peace officer only.

It isn't until 11/1 that wording that basically gets added that adds exceptions for permit holders.

apjonas · Jul 17, 2011

Easy

NakedOne said:
Anyone have knowledge to where these applications would be accepted/processed? We could always show up first thing Nov. 1 to turn our application in. Paperwork in one hand, check/money order/cash in other....empty holster at side.

I would think this would make those applications first.

Please show up at the corner of Allied Drive and Lovell Lane in Madison at 6 a.m. on 11/1. Cash only. Please wear a lot of flashy jewelry since it will be dark at that time of year. There is little parking so have somebody drop you off. Tell them to come back in 30 minutes. Wear a fur coat - it might be chilly. I suggest bringing your IPOD to pass the time. Within 15 minutes, you will have no more worries about getting your license. You'll probably be in the paper, too.

Tom Maassen · Jul 17, 2011

http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/showthread.php?p=1576137

My response on another thread answered this perfectly!

davegran · Jul 18, 2011

Our high-paid, high-powered state attorneys say....

apjonas said:
It is implicit that once the forms are designed they should be made available. Otherwise DoJ could choose to never provide an application form and by extension a license. Since they must issue within 21 (or 45 days) of receiving a completed application. No application = No application submission = No license

When the Legislature considered the bill they relied on material such as the Legislative Council's memo, which explained the bill in plain language. Here is what part of it said,

WISCONSIN LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL AMENDMENT MEMO

2011 Senate Bill 93

Senate Substitute
Amendment 2, as Amended
Memo published: June 15, 2011 Contact: Anne Sappenfield, Senior Staff Attorney (267-9485)

- Page 7 -
Within 21 days of receiving the application, DOJ must either issue a license or deny the license
application. In addition, beginning on the day after publication of the legislation and ending on the first
day of the fifth month after that day, DOJ must, as soon as practicable and without delay, but no longer
than 45 days after receiving a complete application, either issue the license and promptly send the
licensee the license document by 1st class mail or deny the application, as described above.

I take this to mean that the Legislative Council's published interpretation says that an application received on July 23rd must be processed and returned by Sept 23rd, figuring 45 working days, or Sept 5th, counting every day....

HandyHamlet · Jul 18, 2011

davegran said:
....take this to mean that the Legislative Council's published interpretation says that an application received on July 23rd must be processed and returned by Sept 23rd, figuring 45 working days, or Sept 5th, counting every day....[/FONT]

But that's impossible. The DOJ has to pick out, order, receive and hang all those "Be Alert, the world needs more LERTS!" posters up in the new office. That takes TIME man.

Timeline for Act 35 (SB93) now that it has a published date

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