A very insightful comment on the our natural right to be armed.

Robin47 · Jul 19, 2011

Right Wing Wacko said:
Those who call for the repeal of the Second Amendment so that we can really begin controlling firearms betray a serious misunderstanding of the Bill of Rights. The Bill of Rights does not grant rights to the people, such that its repeal would legitimately confer upon government the powers otherwise proscribed. The Bill of Rights is the list of the fundamental, inalienable rights, endowed in man by his Creator, that define what it means to be a free and independent people, the rights which must exist to ensure that government governs only with the consent of the people.

The Supreme Court. In United States v. Cruikshank (1876), the first case in which the Court had an opportunity to interpret the Second Amendment, it stated that the right confirmed by the Second Amendment "is not a right granted by the constitution. Neither is it in any manner dependent upon that instrument for its existence." The repeal of the Second Amendment would no more render the outlawing of firearms legitimate than the repeal of the due process clause of the Fifth Amendment would authorize the government to imprison and kill people at will. A government that abrogates any of the Bill of Rights, with or without majoritarian approval, forever acts illegitimately, becomes tyrannical, and loses the moral right to govern.

<NOTE: Blattently stolen from Joe Huffmans Blog!>

Very well said, I agree ! Good post RWW. Robin47

paramedic70002 · Jul 19, 2011

I tend to disagree. Eliminate the 2A and you eliminate guns as a protected tool to accomplish God given self defense. Unlike in England where they lock you up if you defend yourself. So self defense would still be lawful but guns wouldn't protected, except in state Constitutions and existing Federal law.

Metalhead47 · Jul 19, 2011

paramedic70002 said:
I tend to disagree. Eliminate the 2A and you eliminate guns as a protected tool to accomplish God given self defense. Unlike in England where they lock you up if you defend yourself. So self defense would still be lawful but guns wouldn't protected, except in state Constitutions and existing Federal law.

Not so fast, keep in mind now that self defense is secondary to the original intent of the Second amendment. In the case of our Constitution, the 2A stems mostly not from the natural right to self defense, but from the natural right of the people to be governed by consent, and when government no longer acknowledges that consent, to change the government... by force, if necessary.

jbone · Jul 20, 2011

I couldn't resist, I just happened to have watched Shane the other day.

"A gun is a tool, Marian; no better or no worse than any other tool: an axe, a shovel or anything. A gun is as good or as bad as the man using it. Remember that"

DocWalker · Jul 20, 2011

jbone said:
I couldn't resist, I just happened to have watched Shane the other day.

"A gun is a tool, Marian; no better or no worse than any other tool: an axe, a shovel or anything. A gun is as good or as bad as the man using it. Remember that"

Jbone: So true for the quote.

parmedic70002: Great quote, I have been a paramedic for over 20 years and this is the first time I have heard this one.

"Guns Save Lives. Paramedics Save Lives. But...Paramedics With Guns Scare People!"

I know the Paramedics in some other countries carry pistols.....I like to think of it as they ultimate anesthetic..

amlevin · Jul 20, 2011

DocWalker said:
I know the Paramedics in some other countries carry pistols.....I like to think of it as they ultimate anesthetic..

Don't have to leave the Country. On the East Coast, many Police Departments have Emergency Service Units (ESU's) that have their officers trained as paramedics. They are armed just like the rest of the unit. Likewise with many SWAT teams around the country that have one or more Paramedics on board.

DocWalker · Jul 20, 2011

amlevin said:
Don't have to leave the Country. On the East Coast, many Police Departments have Emergency Service Units (ESU's) that have their officers trained as paramedics. They are armed just like the rest of the unit. Likewise with many SWAT teams around the country that have one or more Paramedics on board.

You are correct; I actually had the pleasure of working with a fine Baltimore Police/Paramedic on one of the helicopters. Was great flying into Shock Trauma were I did a fellowship. I was speaking mainly of the Fire and ambulance Paramedics; I was referring to places like Israel the pure ambulance Paramedics are armed.

paramedic70002 · Jul 20, 2011

DocWalker said:
Jbone: So true for the quote.

parmedic70002: Great quote, I have been a paramedic for over 20 years and this is the first time I have heard this one.

"Guns Save Lives. Paramedics Save Lives. But...Paramedics With Guns Scare People!"

I know the Paramedics in some other countries carry pistols.....I like to think of it as they ultimate anesthetic..

I made that up myself, but you can use it, no charge.

paramedic70002 · Jul 20, 2011

Metalhead47 said:
Not so fast, keep in mind now that self defense is secondary to the original intent of the Second amendment. In the case of our Constitution, the 2A stems mostly not from the natural right to self defense, but from the natural right of the people to be governed by consent, and when government no longer acknowledges that consent, to change the government... by force, if necessary.

You would think that a bunch of guys who just threw off the shackles of an oppressive government would see how it is sometimes necessary, however:

US Constitution Article III.

Section 3 - Treason

Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort. No Person shall be convicted of Treason unless on the Testimony of two Witnesses to the same overt Act, or on Confession in open Court.

I guess they realized that repeated revolts don't solve problems, they just make things worse. Or assumed that since they created a new form of 'fair' government, revolt would not be necessary. Bottom line, if you try it, you better win. Losing doesn't pay well.

Metalhead47 · Jul 21, 2011

paramedic70002 said:
You would think that a bunch of guys who just threw off the shackles of an oppressive government would see how it is sometimes necessary, however:

Sure they did, that's why they created a government that was supposed to be limited, restricted by law, and subservient to the people. They included multiple options in the Constitution for changing that government when/if it forgot that. The second amendment is the failsafe, the "nuclear option, to be used only in that greatest extreme, against and illegitimate government.

I guess they realized that repeated revolts don't solve problems, they just make things worse. Or assumed that since they created a new form of 'fair' government, revolt would not be necessary. Bottom line, if you try it, you better win. Losing doesn't pay well.

I've read that Jefferson expected a revolution of one sort or another every generation.

A very insightful comment on the our natural right to be armed.

Robin47

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paramedic70002

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Metalhead47

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jbone

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DocWalker

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amlevin

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DocWalker

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paramedic70002

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paramedic70002

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Metalhead47

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