• We are now running on a new, and hopefully much-improved, server. In addition we are also on new forum software. Any move entails a lot of technical details and I suspect we will encounter a few issues as the new server goes live. Please be patient with us. It will be worth it! :) Please help by posting all issues here.
  • The forum will be down for about an hour this weekend for maintenance. I apologize for the inconvenience.
  • If you are having trouble seeing the forum then you may need to clear your browser's DNS cache. Click here for instructions on how to do that
  • Please review the Forum Rules frequently as we are constantly trying to improve the forum for our members and visitors.

How long will Californians Tolerate This?

Gray Peterson

Founder's Club Member - Moderator
Joined
May 12, 2006
Messages
2,236
Location
Lynnwood, Washington, USA
So, the answer to both questions was "no".

The implication you're making is that because he doesn't have a juris doctorate, he doesn't know what he's talking about. You know (or at least you should know) that a juris doctorate is not a pre-requisite to having legal knowledge. OpenCarry.org is supposed to be a place where people with lay legal knowledge can get together and compare notes.

I'll put Gene's legal knowledge up against both JD's (Jon Birdt, Gary Gorski's) and non-JD's (Kevin Hall, Charles Nichols) any day of the week.
 

Lawful Aim

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 25, 2010
Messages
131
Location
USA
I've chosen not to take the bar so I can interact in public without the restriction on my speech that having a bar card would entail.

Noble decision, for the WIN!
 

230therapy

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 10, 2008
Messages
279
Location
People's County of Fairfax
It's already lost. The population of California has decided that it doesn't want guns (I'm talking 80%+). If you want to carry, leave California. Gun owners CANNOT win short of violence.

ADMINISTRATOR'S NOTE: There will be NO calls for violence on this forum!
 
Last edited:

230therapy

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 10, 2008
Messages
279
Location
People's County of Fairfax
Do you make it a habit to pull stats out of your ass on a daily basis? or just to make yourself look dumb?

iopencarry,

Don't be a f***tard. You know as well as I do that that vast majority of Californians are leftists and they support the gun restrictions through voting. Leftists must remove the notion of inalienable rights and private property for their socialist agenda. Californians continue to support this agenda. If that were not the case, why does California consistently send anti-rights to Congress and the statehouse? Why do they have insane carry restrictions in the face of statistics that prove carry reduces crime?

If the gun lobby is so powerful, why did the Assembly pass an open carry ban? What are the odds the Senate will pass it?
 
Last edited:

ConditionThree

State Pioneer
Joined
May 22, 2006
Messages
2,231
Location
Shasta County, California, USA
No.

Won my first Federal Lawsuit at 20.

Overturned export controls on Cryptography at 22.

Filed and won about 5 Federal lawsuits at my second startup - mostly high stakes public policy copyright cases.

So far, have forced 2 governments (DC, Sacramento) to change gun laws to conform with the Constitution. Won 10+ criminal gun cases as part of the strategy team. Have assisted in 4 civil rights (guns) settlements in favor of plaintiffs. Won a state PRA case on 2A related records. Oh, and invented and defended both the mechanical design and legal underpinnings of the bullet button - not to mention personally getting a CA DOJ rulemaking struck as an underground regulation and forcing CA DOJ to release 219 firearms.

I've done next to nothing as you can see.

You?

-Gene

PWNS...

So, the answer to both questions was "no".

Would you regard a police officer an expert on the law because they carry a badge? They make their living administering justice, and I think it would be highly suspect if you agreed with the above statement. Since you might not agree that a police officer is an expert on the law, how then could you not accept the possibility that someone could both be knowledgeble and adept in using the legal system without being a paid attorney?
 

ConditionThree

State Pioneer
Joined
May 22, 2006
Messages
2,231
Location
Shasta County, California, USA
It's already lost. The population of California has decided that it doesn't want guns (I'm talking 80%+). If you want to carry, leave California. Gun owners CANNOT win short of violence.


iopencarry,

Don't be a f***tard. You know as well as I do that that vast majority of Californians are leftists and they support the gun restrictions through voting. Leftists must remove the notion of inalienable rights and private property for their socialist agenda. Californians continue to support this agenda. If that were not the case, why does California consistently send anti-rights to Congress and the statehouse? Why do they have insane carry restrictions in the face of statistics that prove carry reduces crime?

If the gun lobby is so powerful, why did the Assembly pass an open carry ban? What are the odds the Senate will pass it?

If you arent pulling numbers out of the thin blue air, would you care to cite the source of the information that 80% of Californians oppose firearms ownership? Can you show us on the map what portion of the state votes for anti gun democrats and which vote for conservatives? How does that add up to 80%?
 

230therapy

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 10, 2008
Messages
279
Location
People's County of Fairfax
If you arent pulling numbers out of the thin blue air, would you care to cite the source of the information that 80% of Californians oppose firearms ownership? Can you show us on the map what portion of the state votes for anti gun democrats and which vote for conservatives? How does that add up to 80%?

The sooner you own up to the fact that Californians are NOT pro-gun, the better off you will be. Demanding stats about this or that will not change reality. You are living in a socialist state that is more concerned with controlling its citizens than honoring their liberty.

I used to believe that Texas was fully pro-gun. I looked at the laws after I moved there and discovered it was not as pro-gun as popular sentiment would have me believe. There isn't even any open carry and you have to ASK for PERMISSION to carry a gun concealed. So much for a "right to keep and bear arms" in Texas!

You have several choices regarding the RKBA in California:

1) Continue to live there and accept the fact that you will not succeed in making it a pro-gun state. The state constitution does not even have RKBA! Good luck getting an amendment.

2) Move to another state.

3) ADMINISTRATOR'S NOTE: There will be NO calls for violence on this forum!

If you're not going to own up to reality, but instead play little games with stats, good luck to you! Go sit with the hippies because their fantastical philosophy is very close to your own.

Gundude: AWESOME avatar!!!
 
Last edited:

ConditionThree

State Pioneer
Joined
May 22, 2006
Messages
2,231
Location
Shasta County, California, USA
The sooner you own up to the fact that Californians are NOT pro-gun, the better off you will be. Demanding stats about this or that will not change reality. You are living in a socialist state that is more concerned with controlling its citizens than honoring their liberty.

I used to believe that Texas was fully pro-gun. I looked at the laws after I moved there and discovered it was not as pro-gun as popular sentiment would have me believe. There isn't even any open carry and you have to ASK for PERMISSION to carry a gun concealed. So much for a "right to keep and bear arms" in Texas!

You have several choices regarding the RKBA in California:

1) Continue to live there and accept the fact that you will not succeed in making it a pro-gun state. The state constitution does not even have RKBA! Good luck getting an amendment.

2) Move to another state.

3) Use force to make them honor your liberty.

If you're not going to own up to reality, but instead play little games with stats, good luck to you! Go sit with the hippies because their fantastical philosophy is very close to your own.

Gundude: AWESOME avatar!!!

Oh you got me. I was hoping that I wouldnt be found out, but you were so compelling and clever... I admit it- I am anti-gun by virtue that I am a Californian and live in California. /sarcasm

I find it ironic that you are accusing me of not owning up to reality, while at the same time avoiding addressing the absense of facts to back up your assumption that 80% of Californians oppose gun ownership. You further compound this with the preposterous notion that I share anything in common with the philosophy of 'hippies'.

Is this possibly the first thread where you have read anything I have contributed on this forum? Nah- don't answer that-that's what we call a rhetorical question. We already know the answer. Thanks.
 

thebigsd

Founder's Club Member
Joined
Mar 23, 2010
Messages
3,535
Location
Quarryville, PA
1) Continue to live there and accept the fact that you will not succeed in making it a pro-gun state. The state constitution does not even have RKBA! Good luck getting an amendment.

I wouldn't go so far as to call it a fact that making California a pro-gun state would fail. That's certainly a poor attitude to have about it. Throughout history, people faced near impossible odds when attempting to get new laws passed and they succeeded. Just think if everyone in 1986 had the same thoughts about their state. Watch the map, I bet a lot of people thought that was impossible as well.
 

Sons of Liberty

Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter
Joined
Mar 7, 2009
Messages
638
Location
Riverside, California, USA
So your answer was also to ignore my question?

[SNIP]

-Gene

Not a lawyer. Never went to law school.

Credentials: Citizen. Husband. Married to a lovely wife 30+ years. Raised 3 kids. Grandchildren. Worked in various capacities from small to large companies. Gun owner. Pay my fair-share in taxes. Donate to 2A causes when I am able.
 

230therapy

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 10, 2008
Messages
279
Location
People's County of Fairfax
California is about to lose open carry.

If Thomas Jefferson were alive, and in California, he'd be out front of the legislature bashing in heads if the Assembly sent such legislation to the California Senate. There aren't 200 men in California who would be willing to help him. If there were, the Assembly would back off very quickly.

The Assembly KNOWS citizens will stand by and do nothing. ConditionThree is a good example: he won't open carry at the state house like we do here annually in Richmond. If he did, he'd either have to allow the police to arrest him for breaking an unconstitutional law or fight. We REMIND the Virginia legislature what will happen if they get too far out of line.

I wouldn't go so far as to call it a fact that making California a pro-gun state would fail. That's certainly a poor attitude to have about it. Throughout history, people faced near impossible odds when attempting to get new laws passed and they succeeded. Just think if everyone in 1986 had the same thoughts about their state. Watch the map, I bet a lot of people thought that was impossible as well.

Okay, then what are your suggestions? I would love for California to become a sane state again (in more than just RKBA, but RKBA would be an excellent start). The gun lobbies are not having success. AB 144 was sent to the Senate. Have any of the awful gun laws been repealed?
 
Last edited:

Sons of Liberty

Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter
Joined
Mar 7, 2009
Messages
638
Location
Riverside, California, USA
The implication you're making is that because he doesn't have a juris doctorate, he doesn't know what he's talking about. You know (or at least you should know) that a juris doctorate is not a pre-requisite to having legal knowledge. OpenCarry.org is supposed to be a place where people with lay legal knowledge can get together and compare notes.

[SNIP]

I agree that having a juris doctorate is not a pre-requisite to having legal knowledge. I like the idea of comparing notes.

Gene asked for "deference" (Merriam-Webster Definition: respect and esteem due a superior or elder) in his opinions of law.

In light of the request, I think these are fair questions.
 

Iopencarry

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 9, 2010
Messages
637
Location
Oakley, California, United States
A bill to try and ban unloaded open carry has been ran through the state at the min 4 times, We have stopped it before.

Last year, we were able to stop all anti gun Bills that went through Sac. We were able to defeat a few in court. So yes, we have many 2A supporters in CA.
 
Top